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RE: Bastille Day Killings - 7/15/2016 7:47:38 AM   
Awareness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

lol

You've been swallowing your own shit for so long you don't even know when your face is brown.
Tell me, when the Islamists kill someone dear to you, will you continue to spout this idiotic nonsense about a religion of peace?


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RE: Bastille Day Killings - 7/15/2016 7:50:00 AM   
jlf1961


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Status: offline 		You do realize you are taking those small tidbits to support your argument completely out of context? In fact, it is just one part of the entire thought.

But hey, you probably have not actually read the Quran, preferring to have someone else do your thinking for you.

How about we look at the entire verse, shall we?

“Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth , (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” S. 9:29 Y. Ali

For one thing, the Jizya is not a religious tax or tribute, it is a state tax, so it is only applicable in a Islamic country.

But of course, if you had done one bit of your own research, you would know that.

But how about this nice little verse:

“Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy handhold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. (The Noble Quran, 2:256)“

Or

“And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for God. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrongdoers. (The Noble Quran 2:193)“

“If thou dost stretch thy hand against me, to slay me, it is not for me to stretch my hand against thee to slay thee: for I do fear God, the cherisher of the worlds. (The Noble Quran, 5:28)“

“God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (The Noble Quran, 60:8)“

As for 'secular' governments partitioning the middle east after WW1, considering how many of you post that argument have in other debates referred to the US government as "christian" or "based in christian beliefs."

In reference to American expansionism and the subjugation of the Native American tribes, look at how many political speeches at the time referred to Native Americans as "godless" and even the phrase 'manifest destiny' was based in the belief that it was preordained by god.

Part of the mission of the Spanish Conquistadors was to bring the word of God to the savages of the new world. Among the first thing English and French colonists did was to try and convert natives to Christ.

So, the forced conversion conservatives have attributed to Islam is no different than that found in American history, indeed the history of European colonial powers, which did not really change until the initial collapse of the European empires following WW2.

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RE: Bastille Day Killings - 7/15/2016 7:57:04 AM   
tweakabelle


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Status: offline 		For those interested in the background of the alleged killer, today's Guardian has an interesting profile:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/15/bastille-day-truck-driver-was-known-to-police-reports-say

He doesn't come across as a sympathetic character - his history is that of a violent petty criminal, thief and wife beater, who shunned his neighbours and is said by them to be a "gambler and drinker". No definitive answer is given as to where this lowlife was radicalised, though it is assumed that this process occurred in prison. Apparently he was not "a familiar figure in the 18 or so mosques in the city [Nice]" where he resided. He seems to have been separated from his wife.

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RE: Bastille Day Killings - 7/15/2016 7:57:27 AM   
Awareness


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Status: offline 		Michael, that's a thoughtful post and I want to thank you for taking the time to put your thoughts together on this.

I don't have much to add, except to say the "Why" from my perspective is pretty simple. The doctrine of Islam encourages believers to murder and has done so for over a thousand years. Once that core tenet is in place, Muslims can come up with any number of reasons to murder people.

EG: You insulted the prophet with a cartoon. With a book. With a song. With a painting. With a piece of music.

You were raped and thus brought dishonor on our family. Time to murder you, you faithless whore!

You said Islam is violent! For this, I kill you!

And so on.

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RE: Bastille Day Killings - 7/15/2016 8:01:23 AM   
jlf1961


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

lol

You've been swallowing your own shit for so long you don't even know when your face is brown.
Tell me, when the Islamists kill someone dear to you, will you continue to spout this idiotic nonsense about a religion of peace?




So, because less than one percent of Muslims even come close to this term they are all terrorists and murderers?

Okay, by that logic, all Germans are genocidal criminals

All Christians are ultra conservative white supremacists.

I would really suggest you do some research and actually understand the fundamental driving force behind those few who follow the philosophy of hate within Islam.

Because it is people spouting your type of islamaphobic bullshit that fuels their ability to recruit new members.



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RE: Bastille Day Killings - 7/15/2016 8:04:04 AM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

Michael, that's a thoughtful post and I want to thank you for taking the time to put your thoughts together on this.

I don't have much to add, except to say the "Why" from my perspective is pretty simple. The doctrine of Islam encourages believers to murder and has done so for over a thousand years. Once that core tenet is in place, Muslims can come up with any number of reasons to murder people.



While it wasn't in the "Why" section of what I wrote (or maybe it was, I forget), I thought I covered most of that when I said that any group that preaches violence wasn't a religion, in my mind.



Michael

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RE: Bastille Day Killings - 7/15/2016 8:13:03 AM   
Awareness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

So, because less than one percent of Muslims even come close to this term they are all terrorists and murderers?
You have no idea how many there are. None. Surveys of Muslims consistently demonstrate their desire for Sharia Law, their opposition to homosexuality and their belief that Islam should rule the world.

quote:


Okay, by that logic, all Germans are genocidal criminals
The Nazi party had astonishing levels of support from the German people, which is one of those things they like to gloss over. Ever seen the Nuremberg rallies with all the good little Germans giving the Nazi salute? It's chilling.

Regardless, there's no central set of tenets to which Germans subscribe which promotes murder. So no.

quote:


All Christians are ultra conservative white supremacists.
Christianity does not promote white supremacy, conquest or murder.

quote:


I would really suggest you do some research and actually understand the fundamental driving force behind those few who follow the philosophy of hate within Islam.
Dude, I'll give you Faisal Saeed Al Mutar's comment on the kind of stupidity you're spouting. It reads as follows:

It must be incredibly frustrating as an Islamic Jihadist not to have your views and motives taken seriously by the societies you terrorize, even after you have explicitly and repeatedly stated them. Even worse, those on the regressive left, in their endless capacity for masochism and self-loathing, have attempted to shift blame inwardly on themselves, denying the Jihadists even the satisfaction of claiming responsibility.

It’s like a bad Monty Python sketch:

“We did this because our holy texts exhort us to to do it.”

“No you didn’t.”

“Wait, what? Yes we did…”

“No, this has nothing to do with religion. You guys are just using religion as a front for social and geopolitical reasons.”

“WHAT!? Did you even read our official statement? We give explicit Quranic justification. This is jihad, a holy crusade against pagans, blasphemers, and disbelievers.”

“No, this is definitely not a Muslim thing. You guys are not true Muslims, and you defame a great religion by saying so.”

“Huh!? Who are you to tell us we’re not true Muslims!? Islam is literally at the core of everything we do, and we have implemented the truest most literal and honest interpretation of its founding texts. It is our very reason for being.”

“Nope. We created you. We installed a social and economic system that alienates and disenfranchises you, and that’s why you did this. We’re sorry.”

“What? Why are you apologizing? We just slaughtered you mercilessly in the streets. We targeted unwitting civilians – disenfranchisement doesn’t even enter into it!”

“Listen, it’s our fault. We don’t blame you for feeling unwelcome and lashing out.”

“Seriously, stop taking credit for this! We worked really hard to pull this off, and we’re not going to let you take it away from us.”

“No, we nourished your extremism. We accept full blame.”

“OMG, how many people do we have to kill around here to finally get our message across?”


quote:

Because it is people spouting your type of islamaphobic bullshit that fuels their ability to recruit new members.
Ah yes, the old "We shouldn't criticise Islam because criticism of Islam makes it more likely that more Muslims would turn into terrorists." line of argument. How is that possible if it's a fucking RELIGION OF PEACE you fucking dolt.



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RE: Bastille Day Killings - 7/15/2016 8:13:50 AM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Because it is people spouting your type of islamaphobic bullshit that fuels their ability to recruit new members.



It is Jihadi apologists, like you, that have allowed the scumbags to establish their caliphate, which has emboldened them.

I know your whole "schtick" on this forum is to be "funny, safe, crazy guy", but you're accentuating the crazy, just a bit too much. Keep denying the issue, it will go away (or we will).



Michael

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RE: Bastille Day Killings - 7/15/2016 8:18:35 AM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Tunisia was, at one point, under French rule, and to be quite blunt, the French colonial government committed atrocities throughout all of their African colonies that make most of the crap ISIS pulls look tame.

North Africans, for the most part, will not be happy until the citizens of France experience the same they had under French rule.

France has adopted a very aggressive anti-Islamist policy in both the Middle East and North Africa, where it is particularly active (and reportedly successful) in Mali and Western Africa. Media reports on French activity in these parts are sparse. France had a number of colonies in this region including Algeria Tunisia Ivory Coast and others.

A common feature of IS sympathisers who have committed atrocities in France recently is that they tend to have North African origins or heritage.

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RE: Bastille Day Killings - 7/15/2016 8:37:24 AM   
WickedsDesire


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Status: offline 		Another sad day and part of me wonders where 80 plus figure in with today's total from: war, famine, disease, violence, gun crime, drugs, delicious booze etc..strange they do not have that daily figure - they do for the budget deficit you know

I always say I would ban all religion, that is not true, but it all has a common point of origin - echos from time immemorial. I was raised a catholic, and twere an alter boy (no I wasn't abused - some were where I come from - and everywhere else)

I have never read the Quaran so I am not qualified to answer - albeit I know the history of it and whence it came into existence - before it was lost (there is no original - which is surprising given the modern epoch it was written) I know some of you here are intelligent which of you has read it and your thoughts? so I really cannot offer my opinion other than if its core message was death to all infidels then there would be far more carnage in the world, than there is now, would there not be?

Hatred inequality greed gluttony - the 10 commandments were pretty much well written (not that I ever found the original versions anyone?)

Wonders how much each religion, better add in those mad sects too (not that I perceive a difference in my pea brain), have killed roughly over all of time anyone? Then you need to factor is war despots hunger and so on...wonders if people/humanity are good.

I knew a beautiful English women once, and what a fine mind she had, the finest I have ever come across in my life and she was funny, and fuk me she was well read on everything (not one qualification to her name either)…after 10plus years on these places she was driven from it. Shameful.
But over the decade we spoke (of course we met- and yes she brought chocolate-everyone knows these rules) I asked her about the Quran, as it pops up on this forum and that forum site etc and her words were not good, but in essence her point was that is inferred women were subhuman. And that was that. And that was her opinion of it and that is enough for me. Nothing about murder death kill in the name of God

I have edited this as some of you post.

Now is Islam core message murder death chaos mayhem or not - my question is simple.



< Message edited by WickedsDesire -- 7/15/2016 8:53:45 AM >

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RE: Bastille Day Killings - 7/15/2016 8:42:59 AM   
Awareness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
For one thing, the Jizya is not a religious tax or tribute, it is a state tax, so it is only applicable in a Islamic country.
The Jizya is a tax levied on non-Muslims in Islamic countries. So fighting people until they pay the Jizya means "take over their country, then make them pay protection money".

quote:



But how about this nice little verse:

“Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy handhold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. (The Noble Quran, 2:256)“
Early verse, overridden by later verses such as:

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them'

Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

I dunno about you Jeff, but there seems to be an awful lot of compulsion in that lot.

quote:

As for 'secular' governments partitioning the middle east after WW1, considering how many of you post that argument have in other debates referred to the US government as "christian" or "based in christian beliefs."
Separation of Church and State is a founding principle of the American Republic. If Christians were committed to imperialism, they would have invaded the middle east and kept it, not tried to find an accommodation between warring peoples.

quote:

In reference to American expansionism and the subjugation of the Native American tribes, look at how many political speeches at the time referred to Native Americans as "godless" and even the phrase 'manifest destiny' was based in the belief that it was preordained by god.
Yep. American exceptionalism is a delusion shared by EVERY COUNTRY IN THE FUCKING WORLD.

quote:


Part of the mission of the Spanish Conquistadors was to bring the word of God to the savages of the new world. Among the first thing English and French colonists did was to try and convert natives to Christ.
Yep. But the Conquistadors came for gold, spices and other treasures. The Christianity was incidental.

quote:


So, the forced conversion conservatives have attributed to Islam is no different than that found in American history, indeed the history of European colonial powers, which did not really change until the initial collapse of the European empires following WW2.
I'm afraid it is because Christianity doesn't have a word of justification for "forced conversion", whereas Islam is pretty clear on the topic. Trying to equate the two is just monumentally dishonest.


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RE: Bastille Day Killings - 7/15/2016 9:01:18 AM   
markyugen


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Status: offline 		Blaming Islam for these terror attacks is like blaming Catholicism for the IRA. It’s not religion driving these men to violence, but the fact that they are seizing the opportunity to vent their long-simmering rage now that they feel they have a supportinve movement of like-minded sociopaths on their sides.

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RE: Bastille Day Killings - 7/15/2016 9:35:09 AM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: markyugen

Blaming Islam for these terror attacks is like blaming Catholicism for the IRA. It’s not religion driving these men to violence, but the fact that they are seizing the opportunity to vent their long-simmering rage now that they feel they have a supportinve movement of like-minded sociopaths on their sides.

It's worse than that. It is trying to lay the blame for political problems at the door of a religion, which guarantees that the problem will never be solved. It is facile, intellectually lazy inaccurate and just plain wrong.

Those who claim that Islam is a bloodthirsty religion need to explain why there are no Govts or countries in the Muslim world that preach or practice Islamism of the type advocated by IS or AQ. Why there isn't a problem with terrorism with most Muslim countries. Why almost all the 1.5 billion Muslims on the planet are not practising jihad or trying to subjugate the West. Why all those Muslims are content to remain peaceful instead, ignoring all these seemingly bloodthirsty exhortations in the Koran. Why most Muslims abhor IS and the like. Are Muslims any different to Christians who have more sects with more "true" interpretations of the Bible than there are pages in the Bible?

It is salient that none of those who blame Islam mention the disastrous invasion of Iraq that led directly to the creation of IS. An aggression carried out by the West that has resulted in hundreds of thousands of deaths. Do any of them remember how many people were killed by IS in Iraq last week? Or even yesterday? Or the history of Western colonialism and imperialism that established the current day borders in the ME without input or consultation with the local people. Until we realise that we were instrumental in causing the problem, we won't ever find a way towards solving it.

Everyone (including almost all Muslims) agrees that IS are a gang of lowlifes that have no place in the 21st century. Armchair 'experts' that seek to blame religion for political problems ought to have some more of their favourite tipple before sinking off into the alcoholic fuzz and mindless oblivion that their idiotic claims, laughable analyses and overt war mongering suggests is the only future that awaits them. Leave fixing the world to people with double digit and higher IQs. It's obviously way beyond their skill set.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 7/15/2016 9:42:07 AM >

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RE: Bastille Day Killings - 7/15/2016 10:08:59 AM   
Awareness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: markyugen

Blaming Islam for these terror attacks is like blaming Catholicism for the IRA. It’s not religion driving these men to violence, but the fact that they are seizing the opportunity to vent their long-simmering rage now that they feel they have a supportinve movement of like-minded sociopaths on their sides.

It's worse than that. It is trying to lay the blame for political problems at the door of a religion, which guarantees that the problem will never be solved. It is facile, intellectually lazy inaccurate and just plain wrong.

Those who claim that Islam is a bloodthirsty religion need to explain why there are no Govts or countries in the Muslim world that preach or practice Islamism of the type advocated by IS or AQ.
No they don't. That's a stupid statement with no logic to back it up.

quote:

Why there isn't a problem with terrorism with most Muslim countries.
There is, you fucking idiot. Muslims have been killing each other for a thousand years. The only time there's no problem is when one Islamic sect completely dominates a country

quote:

Why almost all the 1.5 billion Muslims on the planet are not practising jihad or trying to subjugate the West.
For the same reason most people don't join the Army. It means giving up your comfortable life. And you have no fucking idea how many Muslims are involved with - or support - jihad. So your bleating is fucking worthless

quote:

Why all those Muslims are content to remain peaceful instead, ignoring all these seemingly bloodthirsty exhortations in the Koran.
How the fuck do you know if they're peaceful or not.

quote:

Why most Muslims abhor IS and the like.
Acknowledged support for ISIS varies from 0% in Iran (which is a sectarian issue) to 21% in Syria. So probably anywhere between 100 and 200 million Muslims openly support ISIS. That's a lot.

quote:

Are Muslims any different to Christians who have more sects with more "true" interpretations of the Bible than there are pages in the Bible?
Yes. Because Christians don't murder each other over those interpretations nor does their holy book tell them to. In contrast with Muslims who have been murdering each other for over a thousand years over those interpretations and have a holy book which tells them - over and over again - to murder.

quote:


It is salient that none of those who blame Islam mention the disastrous invasion of Iraq that led directly to the creation of IS. An aggression carried out by the West that has resulted in hundreds of thousands of deaths. Do any of them remember how many people were killed by IS in Iraq last week? Or even yesterday? Or the history of Western colonialism and imperialism that established the current day borders in the ME without input or consultation with the local people. Until we realise that we were instrumental in causing the problem, we won't ever find a way towards solving it.
Muslims have been murdering people for over a thousand years based on the words of their holy book. If you think geopolitics from the 90's has anything to do with that, then you're congenitally stupid.

quote:

Everyone (including almost all Muslims) agrees that IS are a gang of lowlifes that have no place in the 21st century.
Wrong. ISIS has considerable support in the Muslim world.

quote:

Armchair 'experts' that seek to blame religion for political problems ought to have some more of their favourite tipple before sinking off into the alcoholic fuzz and mindless oblivion that their idiotic claims, laughable analyses and overt war mongering suggests is the only future that awaits them. Leave fixing the world to people with double digit and higher IQs. It's obviously way beyond their skill set.
Watching an idiot member of the regressive left pontificate about the IQ's of others is to observe irony in action. You're an uninformed idiot who has no fucking clue. None, whatsoever.


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RE: Bastille Day Killings - 7/15/2016 10:27:25 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
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From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		There is no place in the Quran that tells Muslims to conquer and kill.

Okay, so White Christians who form white supremicist groups and use the bible to justify their actions are wrong? but Muslims who pervert parts of the Quran for the same reason are doing exactly what is commanded of them?

And, for the record, the majority of Muslims do not support the idea of sharia law as the law of the land. All you have to do is look at the number of predominately Muslim countries that have not instituted sharia law or in some cases, relegated sharia law to the religious courts, much like some Jewish communities.

And then there is the whole ISIS argument. In case it has slipped your memory, ISIS started out killing other Muslims. ISIS is a Shia based movement, which is again, a division of Muslims that is a minority world wide, and guess what, is the same tenant of the faith that Islamist terrorist follow.

To group all Muslims into this category is like saying all Christians are Catholic.

Except for the belief that Muhammed was the prophet, they really have little to connect them. To understand the Islamist movement, you really have to do a lot of research into the division between the two sects.

During the cold war, both the Soviet Union and the United States exploited that divide to further political agendas in the region.

But I guess it is simpler to use the "Kill em all and let god sort em out" philosophy.

Oh, it may be interesting to point out, that our biggest supporter in the region is Saudi Arabia, a predominately Sunni country with a nasty habit of putting Shia followers in prison, often executing them. Now, if they actually believed what you morons are saying ALL Muslims believed, we wouldnt be getting their oil, and we sure as hell wouldnt have operated out of Saudi Arabia during both gulf wars.

Thus, recent world history pretty much puts the "all Muslims hate non-Muslims" down the toilet.

Got to admire modern conservative Americans though, when the cold war ended, and there was no more Soviet Union, it sure as hell didnt take them long to find another group to demonize and go after.

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RE: Bastille Day Killings - 7/15/2016 10:48:10 AM   
WickedsDesire


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RE: Bastille Day Killings - 7/15/2016 11:18:35 AM   
Nnanji


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

You do realize you are taking those small tidbits to support your argument completely out of context? In fact, it is just one part of the entire thought.

But hey, you probably have not actually read the Quran, preferring to have someone else do your thinking for you.

How about we look at the entire verse, shall we?

“Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth , (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” S. 9:29 Y. Ali

For one thing, the Jizya is not a religious tax or tribute, it is a state tax, so it is only applicable in a Islamic country.

But of course, if you had done one bit of your own research, you would know that.

But how about this nice little verse:

“Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy handhold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. (The Noble Quran, 2:256)“

Or

“And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for God. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrongdoers. (The Noble Quran 2:193)“

“If thou dost stretch thy hand against me, to slay me, it is not for me to stretch my hand against thee to slay thee: for I do fear God, the cherisher of the worlds. (The Noble Quran, 5:28)“

“God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (The Noble Quran, 60:8)“

As for 'secular' governments partitioning the middle east after WW1, considering how many of you post that argument have in other debates referred to the US government as "christian" or "based in christian beliefs."

In reference to American expansionism and the subjugation of the Native American tribes, look at how many political speeches at the time referred to Native Americans as "godless" and even the phrase 'manifest destiny' was based in the belief that it was preordained by god.

Part of the mission of the Spanish Conquistadors was to bring the word of God to the savages of the new world. Among the first thing English and French colonists did was to try and convert natives to Christ.

So, the forced conversion conservatives have attributed to Islam is no different than that found in American history, indeed the history of European colonial powers, which did not really change until the initial collapse of the European empires following WW2.

No, I first read the Koran many years ago when I was going to Mosque with my Muslem friends. I enjoyed the experience and let's face it, there is no one as fun to argue religion and politics with as Arab Moslems. It's a passion for them. I intentionally left out S"9" in its entirety because I understand it and understand it is not an exhortation to kill non-believers. I also understand most of the evil from these people stems from their culture and not their religion. (A culture that had Mohammad marrying a seven year old girl.) (A culture that also, for instance, publishes maps in the Middle East that totally leaves Israel off the map and teaches that to children in school.). However, you didn't respond to me about my question to you if you are making statements attributing governmental policies as Christian policies. Are you walking that back now?

< Message edited by Nnanji -- 7/15/2016 11:19:24 AM >

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Bastille Day Killings - 7/15/2016 11:29:14 AM   
Nnanji


Posts: 4552
Joined: 3/29/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: markyugen

Blaming Islam for these terror attacks is like blaming Catholicism for the IRA. It’s not religion driving these men to violence, but the fact that they are seizing the opportunity to vent their long-simmering rage now that they feel they have a supportinve movement of like-minded sociopaths on their sides.

What an idiot...as always. Find me a published document from the IRA where the IRA wanted Britian out of Ireland because they were Protestant. You should really quit pretending you understand things told to you by your koolaide servers.

(in reply to markyugen)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Bastille Day Killings - 7/15/2016 11:32:39 AM   
Nnanji


Posts: 4552
Joined: 3/29/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: markyugen

Blaming Islam for these terror attacks is like blaming Catholicism for the IRA. It’s not religion driving these men to violence, but the fact that they are seizing the opportunity to vent their long-simmering rage now that they feel they have a supportinve movement of like-minded sociopaths on their sides.

It's worse than that. It is trying to lay the blame for political problems at the door of a religion, which guarantees that the problem will never be solved. It is facile, intellectually lazy inaccurate and just plain wrong.

Those who claim that Islam is a bloodthirsty religion need to explain why there are no Govts or countries in the Muslim world that preach or practice Islamism of the type advocated by IS or AQ. Why there isn't a problem with terrorism with most Muslim countries. Why almost all the 1.5 billion Muslims on the planet are not practising jihad or trying to subjugate the West. Why all those Muslims are content to remain peaceful instead, ignoring all these seemingly bloodthirsty exhortations in the Koran. Why most Muslims abhor IS and the like. Are Muslims any different to Christians who have more sects with more "true" interpretations of the Bible than there are pages in the Bible?

It is salient that none of those who blame Islam mention the disastrous invasion of Iraq that led directly to the creation of IS. An aggression carried out by the West that has resulted in hundreds of thousands of deaths. Do any of them remember how many people were killed by IS in Iraq last week? Or even yesterday? Or the history of Western colonialism and imperialism that established the current day borders in the ME without input or consultation with the local people. Until we realise that we were instrumental in causing the problem, we won't ever find a way towards solving it.

Everyone (including almost all Muslims) agrees that IS are a gang of lowlifes that have no place in the 21st century. Armchair 'experts' that seek to blame religion for political problems ought to have some more of their favourite tipple before sinking off into the alcoholic fuzz and mindless oblivion that their idiotic claims, laughable analyses and overt war mongering suggests is the only future that awaits them. Leave fixing the world to people with double digit and higher IQs. It's obviously way beyond their skill set.

And yet it "is" Islam that says it's the fulfillment of God's law by making Islam (the church) the government. So, your point stops having any validity once you blame others for trying for laying blame of political problems on a religion.

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Bastille Day Killings - 7/15/2016 11:46:02 AM   
markyugen


Posts: 129
Joined: 4/13/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji


quote:

ORIGINAL: markyugen

Blaming Islam for these terror attacks is like blaming Catholicism for the IRA. It’s not religion driving these men to violence, but the fact that they are seizing the opportunity to vent their long-simmering rage now that they feel they have a supportinve movement of like-minded sociopaths on their sides.

What an idiot...as always. Find me a published document from the IRA where the IRA wanted Britian out of Ireland because they were Protestant. You should really quit pretending you understand things told to you by your koolaide servers.


Well, you completely missed my point, but I guess I'm too much of an idiot to grasp such advanced mental ju-jitsu.

(in reply to Nnanji)
Profile   Post #: 60
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