RE: 2cops dead in baton rouge

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BamaD -> RE: 2cops dead in baton rouge (7/17/2016 11:59:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Not exactly, ccw holders routinly mean less work for the cops. That cop who shot the black dude in the car. Actually, the more I think of it, the more I understand his nervousness and his reaction. I feel like when Cops are fighting gun-wielding people. Especially when they are searching for a criminal. Anxiety will be on high when you are still trying to locate and identify the criminal. The criminals will try to deny that they are who they are, to avoid being caught. And if agitated, they would shoot. So a cop's life is in total danger at all times, especially with a gun carrying criminal and trying to locate a criminal. It's a very different feeling in a gun-free country where a cop has full confidence there is no way the criminal could have a gun, the worst is a knife. When they are trying to find him. So cops well trained in martial arts and self-defense can still handle a knife wielding criminal quite aptly, even for surprise attacks. But people getting killed by cops is almost unheard of. The only incident I remembered was because the dude stole a gun from the cop, and of course, once he got a gun, the rest will shoot him before he can use it. Because of the presence of guns, it does cause cops to kill more, because they are trying to defend themselves. I remembered a friend of mine who have fought in Iraq, told me, he shot a kid, a 10 yr old kid. Because that kid pointed a realistic toy gun at him. Only after he shot the kid, he realise the gun was fake. He quit after. As he was so wrecked with guilt. But this is what happens, when other people hold guns, you tend to shoot out of fear, you want to shoot first, so you don't get shot first. The presence of guns is definitely related to cops being killed by guns, as well as cops using guns on innocent people, although, it's really out of fear of their own lives. A couple of things. I have a CCW. I've been pulled over by cops. I roll the windows down and keep my hands on the steering wheel. When the cop asks for my license I tell him which pocket my wallet is in and ask to retrieve it. When I get my wallet, Then I put both hands back on the steering wheel. I take both my drivers license and my carry permit out of the wallet and hand them to the cop. Then I put my hand back on the wheel and politely ask the cops how he wants to handle the situation. Then I listen and do, slowly, exactly what he says. I've never had a problem. But, then I'm an old white guy and that may be a factor. Second, the presence of guns has nothing to do with cops killing more people. The presence of criminals with guns trying to hurt cops or criminals trying take cop's guns does have everything to do with cops killing more people. Frankly Greta, since in my state all carry permits are issued by either the Sheriff or police chief, I find most cops who hear I have a carry permit assume I'm a good guy since my license was issued by the police at their discretion. Here we have must issue to avoid racist sheriff's denying permits. A second point is that sheriffs can issue to people from other counties because some sheriffs refused to issue if they found a speeding ticket on a persons record. All sheriffs have to do a background check more complete than NICS. Still officers have more trust in ccw holders because they have been checked out in advance. I too keep my hands on the wheel in plain sight and do exactly what the officer says, and have no problems with them.

Greta75 -> RE: 2cops dead in baton rouge (7/18/2016 12:09:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Did you know that he stopped the guy because he fit the description of an armed robbery suspect in the area. Then there was (apparently ) a tragic "misunderstanding" between the cop and the driver. If you listen to the video (which began after the shooting and thus doesn't show what happened) the cop says time after time that he told the guy not to move. Not quite the incident you want to see. But BamaD, that's the point I was trying to make. When you are searching for a criminal, as a cop, you will get nervous when you meet a suspected criminal who just told you, he has a gun. And then, the person who doesn't co-operate properly. I mean, the way you guys describe your procedure when a cop stops you. Gosh, I get stopped by cops all the time in my car. Because, we have cops checking points everywhere, especially after 9pm or 10pm, where they are on islandwide operation to catch drink drivers. And I wouldn't even think of doing anything you guys said. But then again, there is no gun element, so you don't have to be cautious around a cop, worrying that a wrong movement will cause them to shoot you. Because the cop knows 101% that you don't have a gun, and they are completely 101% relaxed. That's my point. ZERO chance of getting shot at by a cop. EVEN if you don't co-operate! And every time a cop stops me, I never stop questioning them instead of them questioning me! And I am someone who gesture alot with my hands when I talk. Until, they gotta waive me along to move along and stop holding up traffic! I love chatting with cops! I think in the US, I'd have gotten shot by a cop too with my actions. Like I'd ask like, "Have you guys caught anybody yet tonight? What's going on Tonight? What kind of criminal is on the loose? Who are ya after? What are ya looking for?"

Nnanji -> RE: 2cops dead in baton rouge (7/18/2016 12:28:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Did you know that he stopped the guy because he fit the description of an armed robbery suspect in the area. Then there was (apparently ) a tragic "misunderstanding" between the cop and the driver. If you listen to the video (which began after the shooting and thus doesn't show what happened) the cop says time after time that he told the guy not to move. Not quite the incident you want to see. But BamaD, that's the point I was trying to make. When you are searching for a criminal, as a cop, you will get nervous when you meet a suspected criminal who just told you, he has a gun. And then, the person who doesn't co-operate properly. I mean, the way you guys describe your procedure when a cop stops you. Gosh, I get stopped by cops all the time in my car. Because, we have cops checking points everywhere, especially after 9pm or 10pm, where they are on islandwide operation to catch drink drivers. And I wouldn't even think of doing anything you guys said. But then again, there is no gun element, so you don't have to be cautious around a cop, worrying that a wrong movement will cause them to shoot you. Because the cop knows 101% that you don't have a gun, and they are completely 101% relaxed. That's my point. ZERO chance of getting shot at by a cop. EVEN if you don't co-operate! And every time a cop stops me, I never stop questioning them instead of them questioning me! And I am someone who gesture alot with my hands when I talk. Until, they gotta waive me along to move along and stop holding up traffic! I love chatting with cops! I think in the US, I'd have gotten shot by a cop too with my actions. Like I'd ask like, "Have you guys caught anybody yet tonight? What's going on Tonight? What kind of criminal is on the loose? Who are ya after? What are ya looking for?" It's different at a sobriety check point. They just want you to roll down your window and smell for booze and listen to your speech. I dont bother with anything at that sort of check point. Since I don't drink and drive and they don't want me there for more than five seconds I just answer their question and go.

DaddySatyr -> RE: 2cops dead in baton rouge (7/18/2016 12:29:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Did you know that he stopped the guy because he fit the description of an armed robbery suspect in the area. Then there was (apparently ) a tragic "misunderstanding" between the cop and the driver. If you listen to the video (which began after the shooting and thus doesn't show what happened) the cop says time after time that he told the guy not to move. Not quite the incident you want to see. Also, on the video that the young lady up-loaded, she claimed that Mr. Castile told the police officer that he was armed and had a CCW. She repeated this claim, at least twice on the video. When the cop gave his statement, he said he was reacting to the gun that he saw. After the cop's statement, the young lady gave an "official" statement to the police. At that time, she claimed that the cop didn't know anything about a gun being in the car (in the hopes of hanging the cop by his own statement). So, we have conflicting statements by the same person. My "Spidey Sense" is starting to tingle. I think we're going to find out that this guy has been identified by (at least) one armed robbery victim. Michael

Greta75 -> RE: 2cops dead in baton rouge (7/18/2016 12:34:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji It's different at a sobriety check point. Except, every time there is a road block by police, I always assume it's just a sobriety check point. But they may be profiling and looking for someone. Maybe a terrorist. They don't tell you it's a sobriety check point or what they are looking for. Because sometimes, I see passengers being pulled out from their cabs too. And I don't know why. Drunk passengers shouldn't get in trouble technically. And the police don't usually answer any questions I ask. They kinda dodge it.

Nnanji -> RE: 2cops dead in baton rouge (7/18/2016 12:38:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Did you know that he stopped the guy because he fit the description of an armed robbery suspect in the area. Then there was (apparently ) a tragic "misunderstanding" between the cop and the driver. If you listen to the video (which began after the shooting and thus doesn't show what happened) the cop says time after time that he told the guy not to move. Not quite the incident you want to see. Also, on the video that the young lady up-loaded, she claimed that Mr. Castile told the police officer that he was armed and had a CCW. She repeated this claim, at least twice on the video. When the cop gave his statement, he said he was reacting to the gun that he saw. After the cop's statement, the young lady gave an "official" statement to the police. At that time, she claimed that the cop didn't know anything about a gun being in the car (in the hopes of hanging the cop by his own statement). So, we have conflicting statements by the same person. My "Spidey Sense" is starting to tingle. I think we're going to find out that this guy has been identified by (at least) one armed robbery victim. Michael It doesn't matter what the facts turn out to be six months from now. In the mean time several lives will be ruined, a kid is dead, BLM will exploit only that which they want, and the news will hype whatever sells and pushes its agenda. In six months when all the facts are known nobody will come back and admit they were full of shit and using a dead kid to make propaganda.

Nnanji -> RE: 2cops dead in baton rouge (7/18/2016 12:40:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji It's different at a sobriety check point. Except, every time there is a road block by police, I always assume it's just a sobriety check point. But they may be profiling and looking for someone. Maybe a terrorist. They don't tell you it's a sobriety check point or what they are looking for. Because sometimes, I see passengers being pulled out from their cabs too. And I don't know why. Drunk passengers shouldn't get in trouble technically. And the police don't usually answer any questions I ask. They kinda dodge it. Here they have to advertise sobriety check points in the news before they do them.

BamaD -> RE: 2cops dead in baton rouge (7/18/2016 1:09:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Did you know that he stopped the guy because he fit the description of an armed robbery suspect in the area. Then there was (apparently ) a tragic "misunderstanding" between the cop and the driver. If you listen to the video (which began after the shooting and thus doesn't show what happened) the cop says time after time that he told the guy not to move. Not quite the incident you want to see. But BamaD, that's the point I was trying to make. When you are searching for a criminal, as a cop, you will get nervous when you meet a suspected criminal who just told you, he has a gun. And then, the person who doesn't co-operate properly. I mean, the way you guys describe your procedure when a cop stops you. Gosh, I get stopped by cops all the time in my car. Because, we have cops checking points everywhere, especially after 9pm or 10pm, where they are on islandwide operation to catch drink drivers. And I wouldn't even think of doing anything you guys said. But then again, there is no gun element, so you don't have to be cautious around a cop, worrying that a wrong movement will cause them to shoot you. Because the cop knows 101% that you don't have a gun, and they are completely 101% relaxed. That's my point. ZERO chance of getting shot at by a cop. EVEN if you don't co-operate! And every time a cop stops me, I never stop questioning them instead of them questioning me! And I am someone who gesture alot with my hands when I talk. Until, they gotta waive me along to move along and stop holding up traffic! I love chatting with cops! I think in the US, I'd have gotten shot by a cop too with my actions. Like I'd ask like, "Have you guys caught anybody yet tonight? What's going on Tonight? What kind of criminal is on the loose? Who are ya after? What are ya looking for?" When I was going to Alabama State, a 95% black college, one of our professors got a ticket for speeding, by the time she got done she also got a ticket for putting duct tape covering up part of her plate because she didn't like the slogan "Heart of Dixie". She tried to make a big fuss in the press over this saying she had been stopped before and they didn't ticket her for it. I overheard some of the other students (all black) talking about it. They all agreed that what happened was she got stopped for speeding then started shooting her mouth off to the cop. And that when you try to make trouble for a cop you are just asking for more tickets. The cops treat you like you treat them.

BamaD -> RE: 2cops dead in baton rouge (7/18/2016 1:10:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Did you know that he stopped the guy because he fit the description of an armed robbery suspect in the area. Then there was (apparently ) a tragic "misunderstanding" between the cop and the driver. If you listen to the video (which began after the shooting and thus doesn't show what happened) the cop says time after time that he told the guy not to move. Not quite the incident you want to see. But BamaD, that's the point I was trying to make. When you are searching for a criminal, as a cop, you will get nervous when you meet a suspected criminal who just told you, he has a gun. And then, the person who doesn't co-operate properly. I mean, the way you guys describe your procedure when a cop stops you. Gosh, I get stopped by cops all the time in my car. Because, we have cops checking points everywhere, especially after 9pm or 10pm, where they are on islandwide operation to catch drink drivers. And I wouldn't even think of doing anything you guys said. But then again, there is no gun element, so you don't have to be cautious around a cop, worrying that a wrong movement will cause them to shoot you. Because the cop knows 101% that you don't have a gun, and they are completely 101% relaxed. That's my point. ZERO chance of getting shot at by a cop. EVEN if you don't co-operate! And every time a cop stops me, I never stop questioning them instead of them questioning me! And I am someone who gesture alot with my hands when I talk. Until, they gotta waive me along to move along and stop holding up traffic! I love chatting with cops! I think in the US, I'd have gotten shot by a cop too with my actions. Like I'd ask like, "Have you guys caught anybody yet tonight? What's going on Tonight? What kind of criminal is on the loose? Who are ya after? What are ya looking for?" You still sound like you are arguing for a total firearms ban.

BamaD -> RE: 2cops dead in baton rouge (7/18/2016 1:12:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Did you know that he stopped the guy because he fit the description of an armed robbery suspect in the area. Then there was (apparently ) a tragic "misunderstanding" between the cop and the driver. If you listen to the video (which began after the shooting and thus doesn't show what happened) the cop says time after time that he told the guy not to move. Not quite the incident you want to see. Also, on the video that the young lady up-loaded, she claimed that Mr. Castile told the police officer that he was armed and had a CCW. She repeated this claim, at least twice on the video. When the cop gave his statement, he said he was reacting to the gun that he saw. After the cop's statement, the young lady gave an "official" statement to the police. At that time, she claimed that the cop didn't know anything about a gun being in the car (in the hopes of hanging the cop by his own statement). So, we have conflicting statements by the same person. My "Spidey Sense" is starting to tingle. I think we're going to find out that this guy has been identified by (at least) one armed robbery victim. Michael The more that comes out, as is so often the case, the less of a monster the cop turns out to be.

BamaD -> RE: 2cops dead in baton rouge (7/18/2016 1:15:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji It's different at a sobriety check point. Except, every time there is a road block by police, I always assume it's just a sobriety check point. But they may be profiling and looking for someone. Maybe a terrorist. They don't tell you it's a sobriety check point or what they are looking for. Because sometimes, I see passengers being pulled out from their cabs too. And I don't know why. Drunk passengers shouldn't get in trouble technically. And the police don't usually answer any questions I ask. They kinda dodge it. That is because distraction with questions is a time honored tactic for keeping them from seeing something you don't want them to see, or just trying to be a pain.

Greta75 -> RE: 2cops dead in baton rouge (7/18/2016 1:15:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji Here they have to advertise sobriety check points in the news before they do them. Oh, it's different then. Over here, it's always surprise checks, out of no where, they choose any spot and launch a check point. I think the best way to catch drink drivers is not warn them anyway.

BamaD -> RE: 2cops dead in baton rouge (7/18/2016 1:17:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Did you know that he stopped the guy because he fit the description of an armed robbery suspect in the area. Then there was (apparently ) a tragic "misunderstanding" between the cop and the driver. If you listen to the video (which began after the shooting and thus doesn't show what happened) the cop says time after time that he told the guy not to move. Not quite the incident you want to see. Also, on the video that the young lady up-loaded, she claimed that Mr. Castile told the police officer that he was armed and had a CCW. She repeated this claim, at least twice on the video. When the cop gave his statement, he said he was reacting to the gun that he saw. After the cop's statement, the young lady gave an "official" statement to the police. At that time, she claimed that the cop didn't know anything about a gun being in the car (in the hopes of hanging the cop by his own statement). So, we have conflicting statements by the same person. My "Spidey Sense" is starting to tingle. I think we're going to find out that this guy has been identified by (at least) one armed robbery victim. Michael It doesn't matter what the facts turn out to be six months from now. In the mean time several lives will be ruined, a kid is dead, BLM will exploit only that which they want, and the news will hype whatever sells and pushes its agenda. In six months when all the facts are known nobody will come back and admit they were full of shit and using a dead kid to make propaganda. And even if the cop turns out to be fully justified the usual suspects will still claim he is the perfect example of a killer cop.

Greta75 -> RE: 2cops dead in baton rouge (7/18/2016 1:19:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD The more that comes out, as is so often the case, the less of a monster the cop turns out to be. It is clear that the cop is not a monster in that specific case. As it's human nature to have skittish reaction if you are dealing with a suspected criminal with a gun and who doesn't co-operate slowly and properly. The real monster is that cop who shot the 17 yr old white kid 7 times, when the kid had no gun and just high beamed the cop and was just being a naughty teenager resisting arrest. I don't think it is a race thing. But there is a minority of cops that are just not calm or the right personality to be a cop and to handle guns. They need better psychological profiling before they admit cops into the force. And Black Lives Matter are not helping the situation! Just adding unnecessary racial element into it. Oil into Fire.

BamaD -> RE: 2cops dead in baton rouge (7/18/2016 1:19:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji It's different at a sobriety check point. Except, every time there is a road block by police, I always assume it's just a sobriety check point. But they may be profiling and looking for someone. Maybe a terrorist. They don't tell you it's a sobriety check point or what they are looking for. Because sometimes, I see passengers being pulled out from their cabs too. And I don't know why. Drunk passengers shouldn't get in trouble technically. And the police don't usually answer any questions I ask. They kinda dodge it. Here they have to advertise sobriety check points in the news before they do them. Makes them kind of pointless doesn't it?

Real0ne -> RE: 2cops dead in baton rouge (7/18/2016 1:34:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji It's different at a sobriety check point. Except, every time there is a road block by police, I always assume it's just a sobriety check point. But they may be profiling and looking for someone. Maybe a terrorist. They don't tell you it's a sobriety check point or what they are looking for. Because sometimes, I see passengers being pulled out from their cabs too. And I don't know why. Drunk passengers shouldn't get in trouble technically. And the police don't usually answer any questions I ask. They kinda dodge it. indiscriminate search and seizure is a violation of the 4th.

Greta75 -> RE: 2cops dead in baton rouge (7/18/2016 1:35:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD You still sound like you are arguing for a total firearms ban. I think gun owners need to admit that in a gun filled world. It causes things to be more complicated. Police checking on suspected criminals is one issue. Imagine a world where nobody have guns but the police. There is ZERO reason for a police to use guns to tackle the suspect, even if the suspect have a knife. As I said, it's almost unheard of that police use their gun over here to shoot at all at any criminals, even if they are knife wielding criminals. When someone has a gun, and he fits the profile of the criminal, even though he may not be, but that puts an innocent life in danger from the police. Also, innocent people can misbehave. I remembered one time, I had a very very precious wine opener that I kept in my handbag. I had it since I was 19, and it had alot of sentimental value to me, but I completely forgot to check in my main luggage and was in Australia going back to Singapore. The Australian customs obviously ask me to throw away my wine opener. And I was begging them that this item is extremely important to me, I will pay whatever inconvenience cost needed if I can just get it couriered or mail back to me in Singapore. I just need it back! But they absolutely refuse to entertain any request and insist that I throw it away or be forbidden to board the plane! And I got really angry about it, was raising my voice and misbehaving because I just want to find a way to have it couriered to me in Singapore, since it cannot board the plane. And they were completely inflexible and refuse to entertain the request and demanded it gets thrown away. But like, I have experienced same things in other airport and they were like, they will vacuum pack it, and it will go on the plane, and I will get it back when I arrive, they just don't allow me to have it on me on the plane, which was very reasonable. Like I know it's possible, that's why I was so frustrated they wouldn't do that in Australia. And frustrated at my own screw up for forgetting to check in the wine opener. I mean, a cop could catch an innocent on a bad day, and that innocent could be dead for misbehaving. I am not convinced guns equals safer country. I think guns create alot of more complications for law enforcement. Where things aren't black and white anymore. Like in shootings, you see so many ppl running around with guns, it's hard to identify the suspect, as the police themselves said. That is a complication. But can US successfully ban guns completely? Of course I doubt they can successfully do it until they secure their borders. In an already gun-filled country, more guns might be the solution. But the real solution is to have no guns, zero guns. It will just feel safer, it really feels completely different walking around in an environment that nobody has a gun, compared to walking around in an environment where everybody has guns, and you don't know who are the good or bad guys holding them.

BamaD -> RE: 2cops dead in baton rouge (7/18/2016 1:37:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji It's different at a sobriety check point. Except, every time there is a road block by police, I always assume it's just a sobriety check point. But they may be profiling and looking for someone. Maybe a terrorist. They don't tell you it's a sobriety check point or what they are looking for. Because sometimes, I see passengers being pulled out from their cabs too. And I don't know why. Drunk passengers shouldn't get in trouble technically. And the police don't usually answer any questions I ask. They kinda dodge it. indiscriminate search and seizure is a violation of the 4th. It is Singapore, not the US.

Greta75 -> RE: 2cops dead in baton rouge (7/18/2016 1:45:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne indiscriminate search and seizure is a violation of the 4th. Yea, I am confident in my country, something like orlando is impossible to happen especially if the dude is in FBI watch list. Our version of FBI, would have knocked on his door and put him behind bars until his proven to be innocent of plotting terrorism. It makes sense to me, because regular peaceful people don't go around supporting ISIS or Al Queda. Right after orlando, they did just that to a chinese fellow who threatened to shoot gay people on facebook. All he did was verbally threatened. Even though he claimed later he meant "Shoot them with your mouth", and not literally "Shoot Them". His still jailed. Basically, it's a different atmosphere. In the US, there is alot of distrust of authority to do the right things and fair things. Over here, if the police targets you, you know you did something wrong for sure. And it's all very clear what you can or cannot do around here. It's black and white. For example, don't threaten to kill an entire whole group of people, like other religions, gay people, don't attempt to make contact with ISIS. All these things will cause you to go behind bars. There has never been grey areas on what is wrong and what is right. And to me, if you know the rules, just don't break them. Like that 4th amendment you mentioned is a very subjective grey area rule, when later it comes to trying to figure out IF the police broke the law or not.

Real0ne -> RE: 2cops dead in baton rouge (7/18/2016 1:47:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji It's different at a sobriety check point. Except, every time there is a road block by police, I always assume it's just a sobriety check point. But they may be profiling and looking for someone. Maybe a terrorist. They don't tell you it's a sobriety check point or what they are looking for. Because sometimes, I see passengers being pulled out from their cabs too. And I don't know why. Drunk passengers shouldn't get in trouble technically. And the police don't usually answer any questions I ask. They kinda dodge it. indiscriminate search and seizure is a violation of the 4th. It is Singapore, not the US. this board really needs the country listed by the name so we know where the hell these people are coming from instead of having to guess or track which country they are quoting law or procedure from.

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