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Cut the Military Budget - 8/11/2016 12:29:13 AM   
KenDckey


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Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		https://www.yahoo.com/news/darpa-wants-build-living-materials-190602558.html?nhp=1

If civilians want to grow housing, let them figure it out. Why should the military pay for expensive boon dogles that will assist civilians much more than the military. Makes no difference that the entire construction trade might have to llearn a new trick or so. Let the money go to pay raises.

Obama wants civilians to make $15/hr or 31200/yr for entry level positions yet only wants the military (2016 pay chart) to make $19,800/year. Based upon a 40 hr week.
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RE: Cut the Military Budget - 8/11/2016 1:33:33 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
https://www.yahoo.com/news/darpa-wants-build-living-materials-190602558.html?nhp=1
If civilians want to grow housing, let them figure it out. Why should the military pay for expensive boon dogles that will assist civilians much more than the military. Makes no difference that the entire construction trade might have to llearn a new trick or so. Let the money go to pay raises.
Obama wants civilians to make $15/hr or 31200/yr for entry level positions yet only wants the military (2016 pay chart) to make $19,800/year. Based upon a 40 hr week.


DARPA is involved in some seriously scary shit. If they teamed up with Google, I think we'd have SkyNet.


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RE: Cut the Military Budget - 8/11/2016 3:24:41 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"Obama wants civilians to make $15/hr or 31200/yr for entry level positions yet only wants the military (2016 pay chart) to make $19,800/year. Based upon a 40 hr week. "

Are you dense or something ? They got free housing and food, and if not deployed air conditioning and heat as well. That approximate $12,000 a year, house yourself, pay your own medical insurance and get fed meals already cooked for you. Try it.

T^T

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RE: Cut the Military Budget - 8/11/2016 3:29:22 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Actually if DARPA is this now

https://www.yahoo.com/news/darpa-wants-build-living-materials-190602558.html?nhp=1

then we have nothing to worry about. They would have trouble figuring out how to give a rabbit an electrical shock.

Is that the right site ?

T^T

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RE: Cut the Military Budget - 8/11/2016 3:37:19 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

https://www.yahoo.com/news/darpa-wants-build-living-materials-190602558.html?nhp=1

If civilians want to grow housing, let them figure it out. Why should the military pay for expensive boon dogles that will assist civilians much more than the military. Makes no difference that the entire construction trade might have to llearn a new trick or so. Let the money go to pay raises.

Obama wants civilians to make $15/hr or 31200/yr for entry level positions yet only wants the military (2016 pay chart) to make $19,800/year. Based upon a 40 hr week.

And for those who don't know it the military asks far more of it's people than any civilian employer. Who in the civilian market can send an employee to certain death?
People who talk about the free medical care should think about this, you get what you pay for.
Military doctors are responsible for the death of my wife.
And they took 11 years searching for my nutrisweet allergy and never found it. This not only greatly harmed my career and quite possibly contributed to my developing diabetes.
Free housing, how about waking up a couple of time a week with bats in your bedroom. Air conditioning sometimes . We had bats but no air conditioning and a refusal to fumigate the housing area, and this was just outside of DC.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: Cut the Military Budget - 8/11/2016 4:27:04 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Well there are some things they do not owe you. If you have a DD-214, they do owe you something though. Medical care after going to war for them, yes. La dolche vita not so much.

Don't enlist. Live life, not death.

T^T

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RE: Cut the Military Budget - 8/11/2016 8:01:49 AM   
Awareness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

https://www.yahoo.com/news/darpa-wants-build-living-materials-190602558.html?nhp=1

If civilians want to grow housing, let them figure it out. Why should the military pay for expensive boon dogles that will assist civilians much more than the military.
What.. you mean, like the internet which you're using to bitch about this? That was a DARPA project.

Or how about precision machined parts which is responsible for the advent of modern manufacturing techniques? The Army project to create machined parts to allow for rapid replacement of parts in-field was a fucking 50 year project which resulted in the American System of Manufacturing. No private concern would ever make that investment and the result not only changed warfare but changed society.

quote:

Makes no difference that the entire construction trade might have to llearn a new trick or so. Let the money go to pay raises.
History demonstrates that most dramatic new innovations are paid for by the taxpayer. Private enterprise then profits from them.

quote:


Obama wants civilians to make $15/hr or 31200/yr for entry level positions yet only wants the military (2016 pay chart) to make $19,800/year. Based upon a 40 hr week.
Two points here: $15/hr in a society this rich is not a problem for anyone except employers treating their workers like shit. If you can't afford $15/hr for your employees, then you don't have a fucking business.

Second: The allocation of funds for wages inside the Pentagon is controlled by the Military. They get a metric crapton of money each year and they choose to spend it on expensive toys from defense contracters so they can get kickbacks. That's got nothing to do with the President, it's got everything to do with the Military.




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RE: Cut the Military Budget - 8/11/2016 10:30:14 AM   
MrRodgers


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Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness


Or how about precision machined parts which is responsible for the advent of modern manufacturing techniques? The Army project to create machined parts to allow for rapid replacement of parts in-field was a fucking 50 year project which resulted in the American System of Manufacturing. No private concern would ever make that investment and the result not only changed warfare but changed society.

HERE


That was much earlier unless you are referring to something else.

Highlites:

James Watt was unable to have an accurately bored cylinder for his first steam engine, trying for several years until John Wilkinson invented a suitable boring machine in 1774, boring Boulton & Watt's first commercial engine in 1776.

The advance in the accuracy of machine tools can be traced to Henry Maudslay and refined by Joseph Whitworth. That Maudslay had established the manufacture and use of master plane gages in his shop (Maudslay & Field) located on Westminster Road south of the Thames River in London about 1809, was attested to by James Nasmyth who was employed by Maudslay in 1829 and Nasmyth documented their use in his autobiography.

They invented what's known as 'bluing.'

Important early machine tools included the slide rest lathe, screw-cutting lathe, turret lathe, milling machine, pattern tracing lathe, shaper, and metal planer, which were all in use before 1840. With these machine tools the decades-old objective of producing interchangeable parts was finally realized.

HERE

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You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

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RE: Cut the Military Budget - 8/11/2016 11:17:45 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness


quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

https://www.yahoo.com/news/darpa-wants-build-living-materials-190602558.html?nhp=1

If civilians want to grow housing, let them figure it out. Why should the military pay for expensive boon dogles that will assist civilians much more than the military.
What.. you mean, like the internet which you're using to bitch about this? That was a DARPA project.

Or how about precision machined parts which is responsible for the advent of modern manufacturing techniques? The Army project to create machined parts to allow for rapid replacement of parts in-field was a fucking 50 year project which resulted in the American System of Manufacturing. No private concern would ever make that investment and the result not only changed warfare but changed society.

quote:

Makes no difference that the entire construction trade might have to llearn a new trick or so. Let the money go to pay raises.
History demonstrates that most dramatic new innovations are paid for by the taxpayer. Private enterprise then profits from them.

quote:


Obama wants civilians to make $15/hr or 31200/yr for entry level positions yet only wants the military (2016 pay chart) to make $19,800/year. Based upon a 40 hr week.
Two points here: $15/hr in a society this rich is not a problem for anyone except employers treating their workers like shit. If you can't afford $15/hr for your employees, then you don't have a fucking business.

Second: The allocation of funds for wages inside the Pentagon is controlled by the Military. They get a metric crapton of money each year and they choose to spend it on expensive toys from defense contracters so they can get kickbacks. That's got nothing to do with the President, it's got everything to do with the Military.




That is funny, when I was in pay was set by Congress and Signed in by the Predident so the President had a lot of say. It was, and is a political desicion, not a military one.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Awareness)
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RE: Cut the Military Budget - 8/11/2016 11:57:38 AM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Are you dense or something ? They got free housing and food, and if not deployed air conditioning and heat as well. That approximate $12,000 a year, house yourself, pay your own medical insurance and get fed meals already cooked for you. Try it.

T^T

Yes, they get free housing which they have no control over in decorating, living conditions, etc. It is subject to intrusion 24/7 by strangers who have control.

They work 24/7 as required, not a 40 hour week. I can't remember having a 40 hr week in the 20 years I spent in. They have restrictions on the clothing they can have and wear. Limitations on how far they can travel on any given day. etc.

AC/Heat. Sometimes, not always. Ever live in a tent in the snow with no heat or in the heat (over 120) with no AC? I have.

They get food (maybe) and it isn't necessarily what they want to eat. It is food, dejydrated (often), less than grade A meats (cost factor), etc.

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RE: Cut the Military Budget - 8/11/2016 1:43:08 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
Are you dense or something ? They got free housing and food, and if not deployed air conditioning and heat as well. That approximate $12,000 a year, house yourself, pay your own medical insurance and get fed meals already cooked for you. Try it.

T^T

Dude, back the truck up.

First of all, you're talking about single soldiers (active duty) that live in the barracks and eating at the mess hall and/or d-fac. Some are better than others, but the bad ones can be absolute crap. The older ones have had cases of mold, asbestos, lead paint, bugs, rodents, and some other nasty stuff. Family housing isn't much different. That's if you can get it. Damn near every Army post has a waiting list. That means you, your spouse, and your children get to cram into this one bedroom kind of thing that is something like an extended stay, bottom of the line place. Kitchenette, if you are lucky. Sheets, towels, etc not necessarily provided. You're there until something better opens up.

The forty hour a week thing? That's BS. Some duty stations are cushier than others but nobody is doing 40 a week. That's not counting PT, extra duty, CQ, mandatory briefings, dog and pony shows, going to the range, the stuff they call (no kidding) "mandatory fun," and the jewel in the crown... Going to the field.

Not all of MP's duty stations have included him having soldiers under him. The times he did, there was always "extra". Over the years, he's had to do things like go get people out of jail, do suicide watch because somebody was required to leave the house after beating their spouse, spend all night with one of his soldiers at the hospital while his wife died after a car accident. My all time favorite? Cleaning up the security breech after the guy on guard duty got bored, so he made a youtube video about just how easy it was to get past the clearances at Camp Roberts, CA.

There's a lot more to it than you are accounting for.



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Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Cut the Military Budget - 8/11/2016 3:47:56 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
Are you dense or something ? They got free housing and food, and if not deployed air conditioning and heat as well. That approximate $12,000 a year, house yourself, pay your own medical insurance and get fed meals already cooked for you. Try it.

T^T

Dude, back the truck up.

First of all, you're talking about single soldiers (active duty) that live in the barracks and eating at the mess hall and/or d-fac. Some are better than others, but the bad ones can be absolute crap. The older ones have had cases of mold, asbestos, lead paint, bugs, rodents, and some other nasty stuff. Family housing isn't much different. That's if you can get it. Damn near every Army post has a waiting list. That means you, your spouse, and your children get to cram into this one bedroom kind of thing that is something like an extended stay, bottom of the line place. Kitchenette, if you are lucky. Sheets, towels, etc not necessarily provided. You're there until something better opens up.

The forty hour a week thing? That's BS. Some duty stations are cushier than others but nobody is doing 40 a week. That's not counting PT, extra duty, CQ, mandatory briefings, dog and pony shows, going to the range, the stuff they call (no kidding) "mandatory fun," and the jewel in the crown... Going to the field.

Not all of MP's duty stations have included him having soldiers under him. The times he did, there was always "extra". Over the years, he's had to do things like go get people out of jail, do suicide watch because somebody was required to leave the house after beating their spouse, spend all night with one of his soldiers at the hospital while his wife died after a car accident. My all time favorite? Cleaning up the security breech after the guy on guard duty got bored, so he made a youtube video about just how easy it was to get past the clearances at Camp Roberts, CA.

There's a lot more to it than you are accounting for.



I had an Airman (e4, what the army would call a spec 4) with two kids who got chewed out at the commisary for using the wic coupns that his great pay entitled him too. Not as trumatic as some of the things MP had to deal with but adding too the stress my airman was under.

PS There was a real Colonel (not just an O6) standing in line behind him who started off telling my airman not to worry and telling the checkout to shut up.
He then proceeded to rip the casher, and the commisary manager new ones.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Cut the Military Budget - 8/11/2016 4:42:13 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		Every year at Christmas, the senior personnel would put together "care" packages for the younger troops to help with Christmas Dinner because they couldn't afford it with all the trimmings.

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RE: Cut the Military Budget - 8/11/2016 4:54:48 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		And generals live in opulence and we have more weapons with many of them not working than any country on earth, perhaps cutting the privates pay should not equate to cut the military budget.


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RE: Cut the Military Budget - 8/11/2016 5:06:54 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: BamaD

And for those who don't know it the military asks far more of it's people than any civilian employer. Who in the civilian market can send an employee to certain death?

Of the millions of men and women who serve what fraction of a single didget percentage get killed?

People who talk about the free medical care should think about this, you get what you pay for.

I got two bullet holes and a chunk of shrapnel in my ass. They pumped me full of fresh blood and sent me back to work. No problem


Military doctors are responsible for the death of my wife.

If the military wanted you to have a wife they would have issued you one.



And they took 11 years searching for my nutrisweet allergy and never found it. This not only greatly harmed my career and quite possibly contributed to my developing diabetes.

What ever happened to personal responsiblility ?


Free housing, how about waking up a couple of time a week with bats in your bedroom. Air conditioning sometimes . We had bats but no air conditioning and a refusal to fumigate the housing area, and this was just outside of DC.


Patriots don't whine.


< Message edited by thompsonx -- 8/11/2016 5:11:12 PM >

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RE: Cut the Military Budget - 8/11/2016 5:40:40 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		How about the outlandish cost overruns at the Pentagon, $9 billion aircraft carrier that turns into over $13 billion ? The F35 10 year acquisition that goes from $1.3 trillion to $1.9 trillion and climbing ? The ever-escalating cost of the B2 bomber ?

How about cutting the brass ? It's now so top heavy we won WWII on two fronts with 1000 generals total. We now have over 2000.

Add to that the very generous military retirement for officers that see no action at all. Much more than private industry and in addition to soc. sec and any other fed benefits and retirement.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Cut the Military Budget - 8/11/2016 5:50:06 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

Every year at Christmas, the senior personnel would put together "care" packages for the younger troops to help with Christmas Dinner because they couldn't afford it with all the trimmings.

Here officers, at least the senior ones, would have airmen to their house for Christmas dinner.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Cut the Military Budget - 8/11/2016 5:53:47 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

How about the outlandish cost overruns at the Pentagon, $9 billion aircraft carrier that turns into over $13 billion ? The F35 10 year acquisition that goes from $1.3 trillion to $1.9 trillion and climbing ? The ever-escalating cost of the B2 bomber ?

How about cutting the brass ? It's now so top heavy we won WWII on two fronts with 1000 generals total. We now have over 2000.

Add to that the very generous military retirement for officers that see no action at all. Much more than private industry and in addition to soc. sec and any other fed benefits and retirement.

You don't understand much about the military do you.
A lot of officers who were never under fire did things that kept many of those who were alive. By your standard Gen Marshall would not have gotten a retirement, or at least a greatly reduced one.
Not only that but the retirement is one of the ways they excuse the pay they give people.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Cut the Military Budget - 8/11/2016 6:48:00 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

How about the outlandish cost overruns at the Pentagon, $9 billion aircraft carrier that turns into over $13 billion ? The F35 10 year acquisition that goes from $1.3 trillion to $1.9 trillion and climbing ? The ever-escalating cost of the B2 bomber ?

How about cutting the brass ? It's now so top heavy we won WWII on two fronts with 1000 generals total. We now have over 2000.

Add to that the very generous military retirement for officers that see no action at all. Much more than private industry and in addition to soc. sec and any other fed benefits and retirement.

How many times should you have to be fired at to get retirement credit? How much proof do you need that you were fired at? Are the tours where you were fired at the only ones that you get retirement credit for? Does the enemy have to comfirm that you, personnaly were the targe? Do mortor or cannon fire cont since they are not generally aimed at an individual?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Cut the Military Budget - 8/11/2016 6:58:35 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		FR

Well it seems I have succeeded.

I have said that I would do everything in my power to keep young people from making the mistake of joining the military and almost inadvertently raised opinions from people with personal experience.

But we don't have total closure on this. The question is - would you do it again ?

T^T

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 20
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