RE: Middle East & West - Western society forever changed (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion



Message


PeonForHer -> RE: Middle East & West - Western society forever changed (8/15/2016 11:27:03 AM)

quote:

I also ask myself why super rich countries like Saudi Arabia, Quatar, UAE, have not done A LOT more to take in refugees.


It's worth checking into the possibility of a giant raft of propaganda behind this belief. For instance, 'western media's miscount of Saudi Arabia's Syrian refugees'.

"[A] look at Saudi Arabia’s UNHCR page has a few curious footnotes that Western publications are conveniently omitting. The UNHCR counts refugees by noting only those “persons recognized as refugees under the 1951 UN Convention/1967 Protocol, the 1969 OAU Convention, in accordance with the UNHCR Statute, persons granted a complementary form of protection and those granted temporary protection.“ Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, and the UAE are not parties to any of the UN protocols on refugees, and so through this technicality, they, along with most of their refugees, are excluded from many refugee counting mechanisms."
....

"With Saudi Arabia’s non-signatory status, the Syrians residing in Saudi Arabia are classified as “Arab brothers and sisters in distress” instead of refugees covered by UN treaties. According to Nabil Othman, the UNHCR regional representative to the Gulf region, there were 500,000 Syrian refugees in Saudi Arabia at the time of his statement. The government itself of Saudi Arabia has stated that it has, over the past five years since the start of the conflict hosted 2.5 million refugees." [My bolds]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anhvinh-doanvo/europes-crisis-refugees_b_8175924.html




CreativeDominant -> RE: Middle East & West - Western society forever changed (8/15/2016 11:36:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird


This site is based in the US.

It might occur to some that the majority of input might be from citizens therein ('dabei').

I certainly agree that information in the US is limited, but I only see marginal improvement on that account from European sources.

You're not the only one. There is another, from Australia, who claims that the site is 'Americentric,' and she was speaking in approval of the poster whom she apparently did not know was from the US.

When I go to a German language site, I fully expect the aspect of view or outlook to be 'Germanocentric.'

Likewise the British.

I don't base my estimation of Sweden upon the pop group ABBA, let's put it that way.
Why would you? ABBA was successful...

http://www.paoracle.com/SocialismWORKS!/?sw=Sweden


From your source's bio:

"I spent 3 years working in the Portland, OR area for Circuit City and 4 years before that working at Regal Cinemas in downtown Portland, many of you may know me from those places. After moving to Pittsburgh I worked at Sears, now I work with Office Depot."

Hey, I worked as a projectionist for five years myself, while simultaneously working various sound jobs and other live show ventures.

I know the fact that I studied econ and history and business at the university means nothing to you or any other slobbering idiot, but those five years at the 35 mm projector are impossible to ignore, for the likes of you so easily impressed by retail cashiers as socioeconomic experts. I even ran the 70 mm film for four different movies, 6 track magnetic sound all in.

Get back to me if your source ever ran 70 mm film.

Given his resume, he was likely just a popcorn seller, and wouldn't know how to assemble the five or six reels into onto a platter with out destroying the whole thing. Just like Republicans take their version of economics as an unaware means of destruction, as befits the clueless.

Just your type.
Tell you what, Edward...why don't you try discussing the article itself instead of deflecting away to the author's bio? If all that is stated in the article is wrong, come forth with articles that refute the sources and material in the article.

If you're going to start dismissing stuff based not on the sources and material within but the bio of the writer, you're going to have to start dismissing a lot. But there again...better to deflect and dismiss due to an unimportant point as to address the relevant stuff, isn't it?




Edwird -> RE: Middle East & West - Western society forever changed (8/15/2016 11:37:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird

...
I certainly agree that information in the US is limited, but I only see marginal improvement on that account from European sources.


I agree with you on most points except this one: The "marginal improvements" are at times close to the opposite of what is posted here by some.


"All Germans are still Nazis." "All US southerners still want slavery."

Just. Stop.




Edwird -> RE: Middle East & West - Western society forever changed (8/15/2016 12:21:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Tell you what, Edward...why don't you try discussing the article itself instead of deflecting away to the author's bio? If all that is stated in the article is wrong, come forth with articles that refute the sources and material in the article.

If you're going to start dismissing stuff based not on the sources and material within but the bio of the writer, you're going to have to start dismissing a lot. But there again...better to deflect and dismiss due to an unimportant point as to address the relevant stuff, isn't it?



The 55% income tax proclaimed vs the reality of 50% -highest rate- in Sweden eliminates any further consideration.

The destruction of value of 6+ million homes and 11+ million jobs in the US due to runaway financial deregulation is another fact.

Per capita GDP means nothing without any concomitant figures on distribution of wealth.

From the first paragraph:

"Sweden's most affront claim, that it has the world's highest standard of living, is often based on the measure of equality in wealth redistribution, and not on the status of the national economy, the buying power of the Swedish crown (Krona), the amount of people working for productive aims or creating innovations, nor it's Gross National Product. Claims based on these other properties of the Swedish economy, in support of their "highest standard of living" claim, are mysteriously non-existent.

Look at the first sentence. "Most affront claim."

I can see that you were hooked from the outset by that one, considering the awful English. I might have to take back what I said to blynymph. Even though you are not anywhere near representative of the US population, it is easy to see why others get the worst impression of us, even if not understanding that over simplification is working both ways in such determination.

But this gem: "equality in wealth redistribution,"

It's not 'redistribution' but lack of maldistribution to begin with, as exists in the US and other third world countries.

To quote:

"Sweden is a great place to start a new business - if you don't plan on being successful. A more lax economic policy in the '90s has increased new startups by 25%, but the economic attitude towards business hasn't changed much since the '70s, where entrepreneurs were treated like pariahs. Ikea founder Ingvar Kamprad told Forbes magazine that the Swedish tax bureaucrats would frequently accuse him of using people and "only wanting profits"."

There is no source given at all for that claim, much less anything creditable. Which means that it's just opinion, as is everything else in the article.

But, what is this, yet another sob story of a whining wannabe? The Swedish billionaires are laughing at chumps like Ingvar Kamprad; "what a loser! ha ha!"

And yes, it does not escape notice here that cry babies scan the net daily to seek those of like weakness.

"Tell you what" CD, present something of a factual nature if you want any reasonable response. Otherwise, hold your farts while in public.







blnymph -> RE: Middle East & West - Western society forever changed (8/15/2016 12:37:43 PM)

Just for you: read the latest threads on p&r on events in Switzerland or France and check yourself




Awareness -> RE: Middle East & West - Western society forever changed (8/15/2016 12:39:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Come on, man. This, from someone who's said:

quote:


Muslims don't. They come because they see a country they can try and take for their own. They see weakness in openness. Accommodation is a foothold through which they try and strangle American values. They see a rich country which should belong to Islam in the name of Allah. And their ultimate goal is the elimination of American values and their replacement with Islamic dogma. The building of mosques, the suing for special accommodations, the exploitation of American freedom so they can spread their creed - this is why they're here.

Yeah, okay, I'm guilty of hyperbole. Valid point.

My essential contention is that Muslim culture doesn't shrink and die because it emigrates to the US. Particularly in the internet age where remote Islamic radicalisation seems to be an ongoing issue. On the contrary, it seeks to grow and, in that respect, special accommodations for Muslims are the thin end of the wedge.




Edwird -> RE: Middle East & West - Western society forever changed (8/15/2016 12:54:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph

Just for you: read the latest threads on p&r on events in Switzerland or France and check yourself


"it is easy to see why others get the worst impression of us, even if not understanding that over simplification is working both ways in such determination."

See if you can figure that one out.




CreativeDominant -> RE: Middle East & West - Western society forever changed (8/15/2016 2:25:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Tell you what, Edward...why don't you try discussing the article itself instead of deflecting away to the author's bio? If all that is stated in the article is wrong, come forth with articles that refute the sources and material in the article.

If you're going to start dismissing stuff based not on the sources and material within but the bio of the writer, you're going to have to start dismissing a lot. But there again...better to deflect and dismiss due to an unimportant point as to address the relevant stuff, isn't it?



The 55% income tax proclaimed vs the reality of 50% -highest rate- in Sweden eliminates any further consideration.

The destruction of value of 6+ million homes and 11+ million jobs in the US due to runaway financial deregulation is another fact.

Per capita GDP means nothing without any concomitant figures on distribution of wealth.

From the first paragraph:

"Sweden's most affront claim, that it has the world's highest standard of living, is often based on the measure of equality in wealth redistribution, and not on the status of the national economy, the buying power of the Swedish crown (Krona), the amount of people working for productive aims or creating innovations, nor it's Gross National Product. Claims based on these other properties of the Swedish economy, in support of their "highest standard of living" claim, are mysteriously non-existent.

Look at the first sentence. "Most affront claim."

I can see that you were hooked from the outset by that one, considering the awful English. I might have to take back what I said to blynymph. Even though you are not anywhere near representative of the US population, it is easy to see why others get the worst impression of us, even if not understanding that over simplification is working both ways in such determination.

But this gem: "equality in wealth redistribution,"

It's not 'redistribution' but lack of maldistribution to begin with, as exists in the US and other third world countries.

To quote:

"Sweden is a great place to start a new business - if you don't plan on being successful. A more lax economic policy in the '90s has increased new startups by 25%, but the economic attitude towards business hasn't changed much since the '70s, where entrepreneurs were treated like pariahs. Ikea founder Ingvar Kamprad told Forbes magazine that the Swedish tax bureaucrats would frequently accuse him of using people and "only wanting profits"."

There is no source given at all for that claim, much less anything creditable. Which means that it's just opinion, as is everything else in the article.

But, what is this, yet another sob story of a whining wannabe? The Swedish billionaires are laughing at chumps like Ingvar Kamprad; "what a loser! ha ha!"

And yes, it does not escape notice here that cry babies scan the net daily to seek those of like weakness.

"Tell you what" CD, present something of a factual nature if you want any reasonable response. Otherwise, hold your farts while in public.

You're a grammar Nazi? The fact that "affront" was used instead of "upfront" leads you to dismiss the claim itself?

As I said, Edwird...all of these things can be found. In the Legatum Prosperity Index of 2012-2013, Sweden was stated to have the highest standard of living in the world. That has since fallen off by most other indexes. That took me all of 15 min. to find, in-between patients.




JeffBC -> RE: Middle East & West - Western society forever changed (8/15/2016 2:40:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
The fact that people are fleeing countries run by islamic laws and it has proven to be completely chaotic. The condition for their refugee status in being able to resettle in the new country is logically to give up Islam.

How is that logical? This would only be true if the country they are fleeing to is a theocracy. Despite the best efforts of conservatives here in America, we still cling (barely) to the notion of religious freedom here in the US. Granted, that raises issues when someone's religion differs with someone else's but that's what democracy is all about.




Edwird -> RE: Middle East & West - Western society forever changed (8/15/2016 3:27:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


As I said, Edwird...all of these things can be found. In the Legatum Prosperity Index of 2012-2013, Sweden was stated to have the highest standard of living in the world. That has since fallen off by most other indexes. That took me all of 15 min. to find, in-between patients.


It takes less than five minutes to find out how financial deregulation led to a crash in 1926 and in 2008 in the US, but that's not what you were looking for, was it?




Edwird -> RE: Middle East & West - Western society forever changed (8/15/2016 3:35:36 PM)

"Stick to your knitting"' as the Brits say.

Shut up and at least have more use to society, if all goes well.




CreativeDominant -> RE: Middle East & West - Western society forever changed (8/15/2016 4:14:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird

"Stick to your knitting"' as the Brits say.

Shut up and at least have more use to society, if all goes well.

Good advice to you, Edwird...maybe then, you'll be as successful as ABBA rather than the country that spawned them.




Edwird -> RE: Middle East & West - Western society forever changed (8/15/2016 5:00:52 PM)


My knowledge and studies were to music and computer programming and economics, the first listed being the most intuitive, the latter being more informative and most remunerative.

Yet you come here and spout nonsense, just as a brick layer would come into your office and tell you how to do your job.

Hop along there, boy. Go read your Western fantasy books.




CreativeDominant -> RE: Middle East & West - Western society forever changed (8/15/2016 6:20:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird


My knowledge and studies were to music and computer programming and economics, the first listed being the most intuitive, the latter being more informative and most remunerative.

Yet you come here and spout nonsense, just as a brick layer would come into your office and tell you how to do your job.

Hop along there, boy. Go read your Western fantasy books.

If it's nonsense, refute any of it with a cite. If I can't come up with a cite to refute yours, I'll concede the point. You've yet to do that. The only thing you've done is state it's nonsense and cite your studies and work in economics as all the back-up you need. I've yet to see anyone agree with your opinion on that.

You do what so many do...deflect from the statements presented, ridicule without any facts backing up your ridicule, then become dismissive and start name-calling. That reduces you to the level of a boy...not me.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Middle East & West - Western society forever changed (8/15/2016 6:39:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
As I said, Edwird...all of these things can be found. In the Legatum Prosperity Index of 2012-2013, Sweden was stated to have the highest standard of living in the world. That has since fallen off by most other indexes. That took me all of 15 min. to find, in-between patients.

It takes less than five minutes to find out how financial deregulation led to a crash in 1926 and in 2008 in the US, but that's not what you were looking for, was it?

YouTube video of Milton Friedman on who caused the Great Depression.

The Great Recession was caused, in part, by Federal regulators not doing their job.




JeffBC -> RE: Middle East & West - Western society forever changed (8/15/2016 7:15:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
The Great Recession was caused, in part, by Federal regulators not doing their job.

In general my problem with the anti-regulation rhetoric is that it assumes that all regulation is bad regulation. That has always seemed problematic to me because I happen to like drinking water, breathing air, and enjoying all the other benefits that externalized costs would otherwise deny me. Properly done, regulation stops a few people from making money at the expense of everyone else.

I am a huge believer in simplification but I doubt that's possible since neither the regulators nor those regulated want that.




kdsub -> RE: Middle East & West - Western society forever changed (8/15/2016 7:41:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Come on, man. This, from someone who's said:

quote:


Muslims don't. They come because they see a country they can try and take for their own. They see weakness in openness. Accommodation is a foothold through which they try and strangle American values. They see a rich country which should belong to Islam in the name of Allah. And their ultimate goal is the elimination of American values and their replacement with Islamic dogma. The building of mosques, the suing for special accommodations, the exploitation of American freedom so they can spread their creed - this is why they're here.

Yeah, okay, I'm guilty of hyperbole. Valid point.

My essential contention is that Muslim culture doesn't shrink and die because it emigrates to the US. Particularly in the internet age where remote Islamic radicalisation seems to be an ongoing issue. On the contrary, it seeks to grow and, in that respect, special accommodations for Muslims are the thin end of the wedge.



There is no doubt that easy access to the internet can breed extremism. But it seems those that are influenced are the rare exception, at least here in the states. By personal interaction with the Bosnian community I see the second generation becoming Americanized. By that I mean the new generation of Bosnian are participating and embracing American culture.

There have been two Bosnian out of 70,000 that have been arrested for giving aid to ISIS if I remember correctly. I find this amazingly low considering their history of persecution from Christians.

Butch




Edwird -> RE: Middle East & West - Western society forever changed (8/15/2016 8:04:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird


My knowledge and studies were to music and computer programming and economics, the first listed being the most intuitive, the latter being more informative and most remunerative.

Yet you come here and spout nonsense, just as a brick layer would come into your office and tell you how to do your job.

Hop along there, boy. Go read your Western fantasy books.

If it's nonsense, refute any of it with a cite. If I can't come up with a cite to refute yours, I'll concede the point. You've yet to do that. The only thing you've done is state it's nonsense and cite your studies and work in economics as all the back-up you need. I've yet to see anyone agree with your opinion on that.

You do what so many do...deflect from the statements presented, ridicule without any facts backing up your ridicule, then become dismissive and start name-calling. That reduces you to the level of a boy...not me.


Oh please.

Unless you refute the guy who comes into your office and says that the enlargement on my leg is due to hobgolins, you are not a real medical doctor.

Are you up with that?

I already pointed out the 'wrong facts' in the retail cashier's rant.

Just as with many other things, it flew right over your head.

"Demanding" that another is now held to your inferior standards for credibility isn't going to cut it.

As I said before, bring up a verifiable fact, let's go from there.




ManOeuvre -> RE: Middle East & West - Western society forever changed (8/15/2016 10:41:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini
Thanks for putting cheese on the conversational cracker!
Many are not fleeing with the intent on changing much, except their location.
If I am drowning and you bring me in the boat, I need to be saved--not changed.
Humm


I think it would be worth it to teach you to swim, Marini.




ManOeuvre -> RE: Middle East & West - Western society forever changed (8/15/2016 10:46:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

There have been two Bosnian out of 70,000 that have been arrested for giving aid to ISIS if I remember correctly. I find this amazingly low considering their history of persecution from Christians.

Butch


Keep in mind that Bosnian muslims have been generally grateful for western military interventions. More than a few Canadians were a walkin' in the balkans.

That they see the west as something other, and perhaps even greater than just an imperial-crusader-zionist-petroleum conspiracy monster is no surprise to me.




Page: <<   < prev  3 4 [5] 6 7   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.046875