quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr
And I don't feel that I should be catering to a girl atoning for HER guilt-when she childishly insists on beating herself up for screwing up.

Personally i find that very selfish. Things undealt with build up and the consequences of that are never healthy.
I really hate having my time wasted by someone moping around-when there are things to be done. Get the fuck over yourself and deal with it, bitch.

Help her get over it, she'll deal with it a lot quicker.

And drama only encourages more.

A little sweeping statement there. Personally if i am punished for something i learn from it and it is very rare i would make the mistake again.

You see,taking punishment is very catholic. There's really not a lot of consequence in avoiding the sin-if all you have to do is to pay some quick and easy penance.

Quick and easy penance. I have never been given quick and easy lol.

I can try to all the outside reenforcement in the world-and it usually won't work. The real nitty gritty and improvement comes when you force someone to take the proper personal accountability-and make them do the internal work, that corrects the attitudes and feelings that made the problems to begin wih.

And how do you plan on doing that?

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr
And I don't feel that I should be catering to a girl atoning for HER guilt-when she childishly insists on beating herself up for screwing up.

Personally i find that very selfish. Things undealt with build up and the consequences of that are never healthy.
I really hate having my time wasted by someone moping around-when there are things to be done. Get the fuck over yourself and deal with it, bitch.

Help her get over it, she'll deal with it a lot quicker.

And drama only encourages more.

A little sweeping statement there. Personally if i am punished for something i learn from it and it is very rare i would make the mistake again.

You see,taking punishment is very catholic. There's really not a lot of consequence in avoiding the sin-if all you have to do is to pay some quick and easy penance.

Quick and easy penance. I have never been given quick and easy lol.

I can try to all the outside reenforcement in the world-and it usually won't work. The real nitty gritty and improvement comes when you force someone to take the proper personal accountability-and make them do the internal work, that corrects the attitudes and feelings that made the problems to begin wih.

And how do you plan on doing that?

All the above is only my personal opinion but i think what works for one in punishment doesnt always work for another. Maybe your form of punishment (although not sure what the hell it is) works for some but it wouldnt work for me. Surely punishment is as individual as the person its being given to and should be looked at and decided upon that way.

quote:

  What I want to see happen, is work.

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

it means I picked a loser.

Omg everyone makes mistakes - noone is perfect.

quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

it means I picked a loser.

Omg everyone makes mistakes - noone is perfect.

I don't see where Caretakr is expecting perfection.  What I understand from his post is that mature people accept the fact that no one is perfect, strive to correct mistakes, and move on. 

Edited because of typo.........see, I accepted the fact that I made a mistake and corrected it, lol.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr
They refused to go into therapy. More of the annoying denial crap, and I am not a qualified shrink. What I DID get, was a lot of histrionics and drama over me not "fixing"' something that was never mine to deal with in the first place.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

Someone who immaturely expects others to enable them, IS a loser. You cannot be a child forever.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

Someone who immaturely expects others to enable them, IS a loser. You cannot be a child forever.

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ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

it means I picked a loser.

Omg everyone makes mistakes - noone is perfect.

I don't see where Caretakr is expecting perfection.  What I understand from his post is that mature people accept the fact that no one is perfect, strive to correct mistakes, and move on. 

Edited because of typo.........see, I accepted the fact that I made a mistake and corrected it, lol.

He is saying that if he picks someone he needs to punish he has picked a loser. You may not be offended by that but i am.
Also saying you made the mistake run along and deal with it on your own, no i havent got time for you to be upset you let me down or erred.
Selfish ?

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

Someone who immaturely expects others to enable them, IS a loser. You cannot be a child forever.

In your opinion!!
I can be quite child like when it comes to punishment, its my bag.
Not for you to judge i don't think.
My kink is not your kink?
However i have never said you are wrong in your opinion just that i dont understand the selfishness in it. That is why i questioned it and hoped to understand it. I see maybe i was hoping for too much, seeing further than the end of ones nose springs to mind!

quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

     When you bring a new puppy home, do you expect it to behave like a properly trained adult dog?  Making a choice not to employ a physical punishment is fine but things don't happen just because we want them to and would rather not be bothered with the process. 

    Sticking with the puppy analogy, if I brought one home today, the training would be simple for me.  The wolf would go through the internal process of accepting it into 'the pack' and teach the puppy how to behave.  It would still have to learn, grow and mature but the burden would largely be off my shoulders.  That is because I did the work with the old dog and can now reap the rewards.

    If you had a sub/slave that you had properly trained and maintained over a period of years, she could instruct the new one and lead her through the training process.  I guess you've never achieved that and, no matter how tedious the process may seem to you, it is a neccessary to lead a new sub through it.  Instant gratification is not a reasonable goal.

quote:

ORIGINAL: EvilGeoff

I understand very well where Caretakr is coming from.  There is a difference between exercising discipline and exacting a punishment.

I use discipline in my relationships.  Discipline is instruction and correction, direction, to do things properly or in an desired manner.  If she messes up and I give her "The Look" and she gets back on track, I have disciplined her.  If I have to sit down with her for an hour, let her vent a frustrating day, offer her suggestions on different approaches to a particular problem, I have disciplined her.  If I get a handful of her hair and tilt her head back so she HAS to look into my eyes as I tell her "Don't EVER do that to me in public again."... I have disciplined her.

I rarely punish.  Punishment to me indicates a a two fold failure.  Failure on the submissives part to get the help he/she needed to keep from failing, and failure on the part of the Dominant to monitor and advise and discipline, to the point where the submissive had no choice but to fail.  If an error is so egregious that I feel I have to actually adminster a punishment it bothers me because I failed in MY responsibility to guide her, or I didn't give her the tools necessary or I failed to see the smaller problems leading up to the big failure.

*chuckles*  But don't confuse that reluctance to punishment with anything else.  I'll wail the beejeebers outta some ass, spanking a "naughty little girl" in the context of a scene.  Oh yeah!  Gotta love corporal punishment... "Now that I've tanned your behind, go stand in the corner.  And no!  I did not say you could pull your panties up young lady!"... *WEG*

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

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ORIGINAL: catize

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

it means I picked a loser.

Omg everyone makes mistakes - noone is perfect.

I don't see where Caretakr is expecting perfection.  What I understand from his post is that mature people accept the fact that no one is perfect, strive to correct mistakes, and move on. 

Edited because of typo.........see, I accepted the fact that I made a mistake and corrected it, lol.

He is saying that if he picks someone he needs to punish he has picked a loser. You may not be offended by that but i am.
Also saying you made the mistake run along and deal with it on your own, no i havent got time for you to be upset you let me down or erred.
Selfish ?

I'm glad that I upset you. it means I hit a nerve, and made you think,.

And no, I really don't have time to be upset with someone, why should I? Then if this is of so little importance to me,why should the bottom make my issues less important than hers?

I may experience a passing twinge of annoyance at a screw up. It passes the instant I see it being corrected. Now if the sub keeps beating herself up, after this-it's an insult to my trust in her competence.

And I don't like being insulted, do you?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

And let's not forget the sick need for emotional masochism. It's a great way to abuse people who ask for it. Not in my house.