RE: 'Legislative slut-shaming': How the German 'Cuckoo Kids' Law' punishes women (Full Version)

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WhoreMods -> RE: 'Legislative slut-shaming': How the German 'Cuckoo Kids' Law' punishes women (9/8/2016 10:46:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: stef
Before I can answer that, I need to know what these "female privileges" are that vex you so.

Thinking that they can have an abortion if they so choose, from most of the blather in this thread.



Lucylastic -> RE: 'Legislative slut-shaming': How the German 'Cuckoo Kids' Law' punishes women (9/8/2016 11:04:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

What a bunch of simple minded strawmen and ignorant adhominems
Shhh. Thinkers talking. Go knit something.


thinkers? no
You are just another pathetic misogynist asshole dipshit lying thru his teeth...as usual



Awareness -> RE: 'Legislative slut-shaming': How the German 'Cuckoo Kids' Law' punishes women (9/8/2016 11:45:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

Yoko Ono's world-view, in fact, but expecting you to know facts would be hoping for the moon on a stick, wouldn't it?
Yoko Ono is morally bankrupt and mad as a cut snake. Either way, your paradigm is fucked in the head.



Awareness -> RE: 'Legislative slut-shaming': How the German 'Cuckoo Kids' Law' punishes women (9/8/2016 11:46:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
thinkers? no
You are just another pathetic misogynist asshole dipshit lying thru his teeth...as usual

Yes dear. Run along now. Cook something - surely you're good at that.



WhoreMods -> RE: 'Legislative slut-shaming': How the German 'Cuckoo Kids' Law' punishes women (9/8/2016 11:48:47 AM)

Yet you'd rather make the sort of ad hominem attacks on me that you piss and moan about than if anybody says word one against you rather trying to address any of the complex and intricate arguments in the thread that you claim everybody else is too stupid to understand as well as you do?
Cute!



Awareness -> RE: 'Legislative slut-shaming': How the German 'Cuckoo Kids' Law' punishes women (9/8/2016 11:49:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

Yet you'd rather make the sort of ad hominem attacks on me that you piss and moan about than if anybody says word one against you rather trying to address any of the complex and intricate arguments in the thread that you claim everybody else is too stupid to understand as well as you do?
Cute!
I see sentence construction is also challenging for you. Have you considered trying an activity which falls within your capabilities? Say, finger painting?



WhoreMods -> RE: 'Legislative slut-shaming': How the German 'Cuckoo Kids' Law' punishes women (9/8/2016 11:51:57 AM)

You so desperate to find somebody you can talk to on your own level that you're hoping somebody else on here will turn out to be a retard as well?
Cute!



Lucylastic -> RE: 'Legislative slut-shaming': How the German 'Cuckoo Kids' Law' punishes women (9/8/2016 11:54:51 AM)

Respectmen and he share a close bond./



Awareness -> RE: 'Legislative slut-shaming': How the German 'Cuckoo Kids' Law' punishes women (9/8/2016 11:56:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

You so desperate to find somebody you can talk to on your own level that you're hoping somebody else on here will turn out to be a retard as well?
Cute!
Would you like some tissues? They're multi-purpose. They can both wipe away your tears AND plug your bleeding vagina. Who couldn't love a product that useful?!?!?!?



Lucylastic -> RE: 'Legislative slut-shaming': How the German 'Cuckoo Kids' Law' punishes women (9/8/2016 11:57:22 AM)

tissues are good for bleeding vaginas.....now there is a man without a clue



WhoreMods -> RE: 'Legislative slut-shaming': How the German 'Cuckoo Kids' Law' punishes women (9/8/2016 11:58:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

You so desperate to find somebody you can talk to on your own level that you're hoping somebody else on here will turn out to be a retard as well?
Cute!
Would you like some tissues? They're multi-purpose. They can both wipe away your tears AND plug your bleeding vagina. Who couldn't love a product that useful?!?!?!?


I'm not touching anything that's been up your arse after respectmen has reamed you bloody, girlfriend.
Cute!



JeffBC -> RE: 'Legislative slut-shaming': How the German 'Cuckoo Kids' Law' punishes women (9/8/2016 12:21:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
That is how I got it MrR. That Men who are NOT the Father are bitching about paying for the kid, that the media is picking on the Man for it.

That's one interpretation but I had a different one off the cuff. I'd need to read more to figure out which is right.

My immediate question is, "Why on earth would they ask her to divulge a list of sexual partners. Why not simply do the obvious thing and get a paternity test?"

In any event, given what we know about the quantity of children who's stated paternity is incorrect, it seems blatantly obvious that before extracting vast sums of money from one partner, the other ought to have to prove the claim.



Lucylastic -> RE: 'Legislative slut-shaming': How the German 'Cuckoo Kids' Law' punishes women (9/8/2016 12:27:07 PM)

Of course there are women who have sex with more than one chap in the same ovulation period, so the mother may not know which of them is the father. Without a DNA/paternity test that is.
There is also a term called Superfecundation in which twins have been born with different fathers. Its rare but did occur this year in vietnam.




WickedsDesire -> RE: 'Legislative slut-shaming': How the German 'Cuckoo Kids' Law' punishes women (9/8/2016 12:57:59 PM)

I do not have the will to check on the efficacy of all RM sources and why they require a 2 year refund.

I am soon to be 47.
And I have shagged the women - not as many as you would think
A handful I have ravished.

Pregnancy card was played twice on I - I liked the one who photo shopped in the line - a story ive not told - Christ she was intelligent and they make the best stalkers as abiltuely nuts will only take you so far.

Now, I am proud of the fact I have not cheated on a women in 12 years (now followers of my rambles will know I also say I have been divorced 12 years) but this alludes to the possibility of there are 0-20 of little me running about

Now, malarkey aside about 25-50% of people cheat
paternity wise I am not sure but would envisage the figure to be somewhere 0-10%



blnymph -> RE: 'Legislative slut-shaming': How the German 'Cuckoo Kids' Law' punishes women (9/8/2016 1:16:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness


quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph

I would not comment to your view of the world which has hardly anything to do with the latter but only to some of the important points in this discussion where you are fundamentally wrong.

Number 1: Property right of a person's DNA is regulated in Articles 1,1; 1,3; and 2,2 of the Grundgesetz (not to mention Human rights charter and other international regulations). It has nothing at all to do with "intellectual" property (are you sure about what intellect is?) but with physical property. "Copyright" as such does not exist because nobody has a claim to take and copy a person's DNA without that person's permission or/and without court order.
This is more incoherent nonsense. DNA is not "copied", it is assayed. The idea that a child has rights which supersede a father's right to know is effectively state-supported cuckoldry - an artefact of those desperate anti-male wastelands known as France and Germany where a father cannot legally initiate a paternity test himself - it is explicitly forbidden. A paternity test can only be done with the consent of both parents and, let's face it, if a woman's cuckolding a man, she's hardly likely to give consent is she? Especially if she's trying to suck dollars out of him.


Thanks for the term "assay" - never met before, will be added to my vocabulary. I used "copy" since you started a "copyright" discussion.
Dollars ... no, not of interest here ... there is a world outside the US, you know.
And yes you understood it correctly, a paternity test can only be done with the legal consent of the child - without that consent it is illegal, and can not be used as evidence.

quote:


The rights of the child do not supersede the rights of the parent - and it's interesting that this concept of "child's rights" is only used to enforce responsibility on men as opposed to women. A man who is an unwilling parent, who did not give permission for the conception of a child is a victim of state-supported robbery at the point of a gun.


Wrong: the rights of the child (in this specific conflict situation) DO supercede the rights of both parents. BOTH parents. The child has the right to know about his/her biological parents.

quote:


Number 3: The state is not interfering in families (Grundgesetz Article 6). The state provides help to children in obtaining their rights if the parents fail to fulfil their obligations to the child.
quote:

Bullshit. The state interferes in families and denies men information about their paternity so as to "preserve the peace within families". Apparently socialist states don't give a damn about which man pays for a child and whether he's the biological father, just as long as some man, somewhere is paying for the child.


You still did not at all understand the general situation and the legal position of the father. It gets tiring to explain it again and again at length. Just a short summary: If a "father" thinks he isn't the father he can of course refuse to pay alimony. That has consequences of course. The alimony will be advanced by the Jugendamt so the child has not to wait for any legal decision - the biological father will have to repay the alimony (with interest). He can't demand a DNA paternity test, but the child can.

quote:



This continues the ongoing anti-male attitudes of socialist states. Sweden, France and Germany are all pro-Islam and anti-male. How's that workin' out for ya, eh? Some would argue those states are suffering the consequences of their attitudes, with Sweden a rape nightmare and France and Germany besieged by Islamic "refugees" who hate them and commit terrorism.


quote:

You have obviously no clue about not only the German legal system but also any other national or international law system regarding the rights of an individual of any age or sex.
quote:

Clearly I have more of a clue than you - you seem to think socialist nonsense is universally accepted. Aside from the UK which is following you off the socialist cliff, I can assure you it is not.


Which is of course complete ignorant rubbish talking about parts of the world and things you know not the least about - but off topic. I fear you are the last to know (or even be interested in) what might be "universally accepted" as long as the "universe" (or just planet earth) is different from your porch and backyard.


quote:

"Orwell" and "WWII" can not hide that.

quote:

France and Germany have become the states Orwell feared. Perhaps if you'd had your own Orwell you wouldn't have gone down the totalitarian path so rapidly.



You mean Orwellian states with an NSA alias Big Brother recording everything worldwide as opposed to democracies with human and civil rights.

In some ways it is comforting that your personal view of the world is so limited and your political framework stuck nostril-deep in the decaying mud of the 50s, Mr McCarthy. Any harm you do where you are is far far away and hopefully restricted...



Depp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbBUQQG1Ad4



DesideriScuri -> RE: 'Legislative slut-shaming': How the German 'Cuckoo Kids' Law' punishes women (9/8/2016 4:35:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph
You still did not at all understand the general situation and the legal position of the father. It gets tiring to explain it again and again at length. Just a short summary: If a "father" thinks he isn't the father he can of course refuse to pay alimony. That has consequences of course. The alimony will be advanced by the Jugendamt so the child has not to wait for any legal decision - the biological father will have to repay the alimony (with interest). He can't demand a DNA paternity test, but the child can.


Why would the child ever demand a paternity test, then? Since it can't necessarily positively identify the father, but only determine if this guy is the father or not, if the child demands a test and it turns out this guy isn't his biological father, the guy can stop paying child support (what we call it in the US). I don't know the laws in the US regarding cases like this, but you're saying that this guy can sue the kid for the money he's already paid the kid? The kid has to pay this guy back? What if they never find the kid's biological dad? The kid is now out money that's likely already been spent, but there's no one he can sue to recover the money he's due.

If the kid doesn't allow a paternity test, this guy is on the hook, when it's entirely possible that he's not the kid's biological father, and, therefore, not responsible for the monetary payments.

What if the mother says she slept with the neighbor guy and not her husband? Is the neighbor now responsible for the child's welfare payment, even if the mother's husband is still there?

Germans do a shit ton of stuff very well. I don't think this is one of those things.



Lucylastic -> RE: 'Legislative slut-shaming': How the German 'Cuckoo Kids' Law' punishes women (9/8/2016 5:01:26 PM)

Hey Des:)
Lets face it.
There isnt a perfect system.
People lie, cheat, steal, it has to involve some legal issues, then lawyers get involved, crooked and respectable ones.
Truth is not easy to decide in marriages, and often so complex, its beyond the realms of possibility
The paternity tests may tell now, it isnt a law, should it be allowable...if the mother OR father requests it, absolutely, its not an invasive procedure now. (well unless you can do it in utero)

When I was in the UK they started a system that said, for single mothers, if you didnt name the father you would be cut off all assistance. Well except for child benefit credit(7 pounds a week)
The system took over and decided to go after the fathers for support, to offset the welfare costs. I dont know if that is still the case, but I know more than a few women who didnt name the father on the childs birth certificate, some out of shame, some out of fear, some out of "not wanting to get him in the shit" even if they had been abandoned. OF course there are tons of spiteful women too. But men can be despicable too.
But my point was that I dont think there is a perfect system, anywhere over custody, parentage and support.
Its horrible, its unfair, its tragisc in some cases and it hurts everyone, except the government and the lawyers.



blnymph -> RE: 'Legislative slut-shaming': How the German 'Cuckoo Kids' Law' punishes women (9/8/2016 6:13:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph
You still did not at all understand the general situation and the legal position of the father. It gets tiring to explain it again and again at length. Just a short summary: If a "father" thinks he isn't the father he can of course refuse to pay alimony. That has consequences of course. The alimony will be advanced by the Jugendamt so the child has not to wait for any legal decision - the biological father will have to repay the alimony (with interest). He can't demand a DNA paternity test, but the child can.


Why would the child ever demand a paternity test, then? Since it can't necessarily positively identify the father, but only determine if this guy is the father or not, if the child demands a test and it turns out this guy isn't his biological father, the guy can stop paying child support (what we call it in the US). I don't know the laws in the US regarding cases like this, but you're saying that this guy can sue the kid for the money he's already paid the kid? The kid has to pay this guy back? What if they never find the kid's biological dad? The kid is now out money that's likely already been spent, but there's no one he can sue to recover the money he's due.

If the kid doesn't allow a paternity test, this guy is on the hook, when it's entirely possible that he's not the kid's biological father, and, therefore, not responsible for the monetary payments.

What if the mother says she slept with the neighbor guy and not her husband? Is the neighbor now responsible for the child's welfare payment, even if the mother's husband is still there?

Germans do a shit ton of stuff very well. I don't think this is one of those things.



To begin from bottom: Problems like these usually do only arise with parents not or no longer married. If a child is born within marriage it is considered "ehelich"/legitimate and the descendance is clear, and so are the mutual responsibilies, and may they all live happily ever after.

1) If a mother although married declares the next door neighbour to be the biological father, the neighbour has paternal obligations, so yes, the husband is out, unless he declares the child legitimate (a husband can do that). With daddy next door and husband no longer interested in mother and child it usually gets a family court case.

2) If a father paid alimony although he is not the father he has indeed to sue the child as the recipient of his support. The child (and its legal representatives) usually have an interest to find the biological father, because the child would legally have to pay the alimony back, which in fact again means the "Jugendamt"=state paying it back to regain it from the biological father (hence one of the reasons why the child as legal party is interested in clearing the matter; the second is heritance aspects after the death of the biological father).

The risk may indeed be that the person who was believed to be father is no longer father. Alimony is protected so it can not be taken away from the child, so the child can keep the alimony money paid already, but the state has to refund the no longer father and has a claim about that money from the biological father to be found. Alimony payments will be continued by the Jugendamt which has nobody yet to get it back from unless the biological father is revealed/found. The child has no right to inheritance after the no longer father but after a biological father yet to be identified.

3) If in this constellation the mother is not revealing the identity of the biological father (just the initial problem, see link in post 1) there is no means to force her to reveal it although it is her legal obligation towards the child to do so. That is the flaw in the system. Legally it is a child-mother conflict, less so about alimony which is assured but also about future inheritance for instance which mother prevents the child from claiming in the future. Being a child-mother conflict (and family court case) of which the result can be of great importance for the male(s) involved can be annoying but may explain male complaints since they can for quite a while only watch what happens when.

The problem for a may-be or may-not-be father is that he cannot advance the case eg by demanding DNA testing. Only the child can demand that.


These are usually dirty laundry cases and the enthusiasm of the parties to cooperate is low, and hurt feelings galore.
Not to forget: The risk for a not-yet-revealed and maybe not knowing biological father to wake up one day with a 5-6 digit debt of alimony reclaim is a serious risk - hence the considerations to limit that reclaim in the future.

But above all is safeguarding the rights of the child nonetheless, so the proceedings are hardly understandable if these are not mentioned or ignored.




UllrsIshtar -> RE: 'Legislative slut-shaming': How the German 'Cuckoo Kids' Law' punishes women (9/8/2016 7:30:58 PM)

~FR~

I'm amazed that no Western country has yet to come up with a 'parental contract' to be filled out during pregnancy, wherein involved parties are forced to decline or assume responsibility for the unborn child.

If the supposed father doesn't wish to sign, he has no parental duties or obligations after birth.
If the mother doesn't wish to sign, the father has the opportunity to claim the child solely, and she doesn't have parental duties or obligations after birth.

If both parties refuse to sign, the child is aborted, or put up for adoption at birth.

I would even go so far as to enforce that a woman needs the supposed father's permission to abort if he does want the child and she doesn't, except in special circumstances such as rape or the mother's life being at risk (of course that would increase false rape reports due to women who don't want to seek their boyfriend's permission to have an abortion, but that's another topic).

Parents who sign on to the responsibilities don't get to change their minds, and are responsible for the child till adulthood.

This way, the onus would be on the mother to make the decision whether or not she wants to raise the child on her own (and on her own support) if the supposed father declines to be involved, or if she would rather elect to have an abortion considering those circumstances. Supposed fathers no longer need to be burdened with a woman's ability to one-sidedly decide to abort a child he wants and is willing to raise by himself.

It would solve almost all the issues in question.



Termyn8or -> RE: 'Legislative slut-shaming': How the German 'Cuckoo Kids' Law' punishes women (9/8/2016 7:55:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

Yet you'd rather make the sort of ad hominem attacks on me that you piss and moan about than if anybody says word one against you rather trying to address any of the complex and intricate arguments in the thread that you claim everybody else is too stupid to understand as well as you do?
Cute!
I see sentence construction is also challenging for you. Have you considered trying an activity which falls within your capabilities? Say, finger painting?



You lost that one. And I agree with you on quite a few things. But facts are facts. You burned it on this.

T^T



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