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Do You Feel Safer 15 Years Later? - 9/7/2016 12:12:55 PM   
vincentML


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Status: offline 		We are about a week away from the 15th Anniversary of the attack on the NY Twin Trade Towers. According to this Article about one Trillion dollars has been spent on homeland security. Money well spent? Do you feel safer? Do you not? Why or why not? It is a lengthy article. I have read it but I am not an expert obviously, so I am more interested in your opinion. Which terrorist scenario can you imagine that would find us most vulnerable? Or if you read the article which do you agree or disagree with?

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.
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RE: Do You Feel Safer 15 Years Later? - 9/7/2016 12:39:39 PM   
MrRodgers


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Status: offline 		Do not get me started on 9/11. And NO, I don't feel any safer or any more at risk and both feelings apply to my opinions on 9/11.

Oh, and the article has little resonance with me except the money, the courts (the first refuse of the new tyranny) allowing a new authoritarianism in our govt. of course.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 9/7/2016 12:46:14 PM >

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RE: Do You Feel Safer 15 Years Later? - 9/7/2016 1:17:08 PM   
KJoeDuo


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Status: offline 		As with any endeavor, there are and are not great accomplishments in the last 15 years relative to national and international security. And there are and are not great failures. Money has been spent well… And spent exceptionally poorly. As with any great endeavor that a country of any sort jumps into, there are a lot of high expectations and projects which never should have seen the light of day. I do feel safer… The security of the country was in rough shape prior to 911 – and all that was a has been acknowledged numerous times by offsides in the debate. The American military is stronger… The infrastructure is stronger… And, we have the ability to travel with a reasonable assurance of safety. We definitively did not have that previously.

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RE: Do You Feel Safer 15 Years Later? - 9/7/2016 1:22:00 PM   
WhoreMods


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Speaking as a heathen from Limeyland, I feel a lot less safe since 11/9, but that's more because we had a fucktard in number 10 at the time who thought dragging us into an American war (and trying to bully the rest of the EU into supporting it) would achieve something other than getting the tube system bombed at rush hour in 2005 and convinced the people who think that America is Israel's bitch that the UK is America's bitch. Not that they needed much convincing with the way Blair was fawning and grovelling over some wannabe cowboy with a fake accent, but it didn't help any.

< Message edited by WhoreMods -- 9/7/2016 1:23:14 PM >

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RE: Do You Feel Safer 15 Years Later? - 9/7/2016 3:21:17 PM   
hot4bondage


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Status: offline 		TSA, warrantless wiretapping, indefinite detention, enhanced interrogation, extraordinary rendition, parallel construction--none of those made me fell safer.

Surely we made improvements somewhere, but all I can think of is stronger cockpit doors. ...And a much higher likelihood of bad guys getting tackled by the other passengers, but that's a change in culture, not government.

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RE: Do You Feel Safer 15 Years Later? - 9/7/2016 4:10:43 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KJoeDuo

As with any endeavor, there are and are not great accomplishments in the last 15 years relative to national and international security. And there are and are not great failures. Money has been spent well… And spent exceptionally poorly. As with any great endeavor that a country of any sort jumps into, there are a lot of high expectations and projects which never should have seen the light of day. I do feel safer… The security of the country was in rough shape prior to 911 – and all that was a has been acknowledged numerous times by offsides in the debate. The American military is stronger… The infrastructure is stronger… And, we have the ability to travel with a reasonable assurance of safety. We definitively did not have that previously.

The American military is decaying, and the President won't even admit they are at war with us. He apparently thinks that Buddests monks are as much a threat as Islamic Jihadidsts. I just saw him admitting that after 8 years he still doesn't have a strategy for dealing with them.

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RE: Do You Feel Safer 15 Years Later? - 9/7/2016 6:18:40 PM   
KJoeDuo


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Status: offline 		The American military is decreasing in size; but not quality. This is the same restructuring which occurs after every conflict.

The issue of what POTUS does/does not is a separate issue.

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RE: Do You Feel Safer 15 Years Later? - 9/7/2016 6:36:40 PM   
Termyn8or


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KJoeDuo

The American military is decreasing in size; but not quality. This is the same restructuring which occurs after every conflict.

The issue of what POTUS does/does not is a separate issue.


How so ? Are they melting down those boat anchor F-35s and buying MIGs ?

T^T

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RE: Do You Feel Safer 15 Years Later? - 9/7/2016 6:40:18 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

And, we have the ability to travel with a reasonable assurance of safety. We definitively did not have that previously.

We had the ability before 9/11. We did fly with assurances of safety . . . because what happened was not imaginable to most of us on 9/10. Ignorance was . . . bliss?

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: Do You Feel Safer 15 Years Later? - 9/7/2016 6:44:47 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

Speaking as a heathen from Limeyland, I feel a lot less safe since 11/9,
Umm. . . apologies. You in the UK certainly have a say in this as well. Do you think you will get a handle on "homegrown jihadists?" Or is that a continuing concern?

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: Do You Feel Safer 15 Years Later? - 9/7/2016 6:52:16 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or


quote:

ORIGINAL: KJoeDuo

The American military is decreasing in size; but not quality. This is the same restructuring which occurs after every conflict.

The issue of what POTUS does/does not is a separate issue.


How so ? Are they melting down those boat anchor F-35s and buying MIGs ?

T^T

Well, smaller but more efficient military was a Donald Rumsfeld project. We do not anticipate having to fight battles similar to those in the past World Wars. Much more command to field technology now with satellites, drones, and so on. Maybe we will one day again need a ten million man military but that seems doubtful.

Anyway, are we dependent on the military to make us feel safe today? I don't see how.

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: Do You Feel Safer 15 Years Later? - 9/7/2016 7:30:34 PM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		Vince, EVERY foreign attack on the US has succeeded.

T^T

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RE: Do You Feel Safer 15 Years Later? - 9/7/2016 7:39:39 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hot4bondage

TSA, warrantless wiretapping, indefinite detention, enhanced interrogation, extraordinary rendition, parallel construction--none of those made me fell safer.

Surely we made improvements somewhere, but all I can think of is stronger cockpit doors. ...And a much higher likelihood of bad guys getting tackled by the other passengers, but that's a change in culture, not government.

An improvement that doesn't come from government, what a shock.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: Do You Feel Safer 15 Years Later? - 9/7/2016 7:42:06 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KJoeDuo

The American military is decreasing in size; but not quality. This is the same restructuring which occurs after every conflict.

The issue of what POTUS does/does not is a separate issue.

Our aircraft are aging, they will need to be replaced by more modern aircraft.
You can't realisticall claim that since the F-22 is better than the F-16 we don't need nearly as many of them.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 9/7/2016 7:43:24 PM >

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: Do You Feel Safer 15 Years Later? - 9/7/2016 8:15:37 PM   
oliviadovie


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Status: offline 		Safety is an illusion, just like justice.

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RE: Do You Feel Safer 15 Years Later? - 9/7/2016 8:19:43 PM   
KJoeDuo


Posts: 22
Joined: 12/31/2015
Status: offline 		Although I understand this is sarcasm... there is no context for me to be awed, amused or ---fill in the blank---. Please explain this (or, don't)

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RE: Do You Feel Safer 15 Years Later? - 9/7/2016 8:28:45 PM   
KJoeDuo


Posts: 22
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Status: offline 		The cruisers are being replaced by Zumwalt Class (launched today), Carriers via Ford Class, F-35 (although I am loathed to mention it) is replacing air to surface and surface to surface strikes.

Then there are those that are the love children of various constituencies ...so they won't]die.. Warthog comes to mind.

Meanwhile we are rebuilding tanks, armed carriers and mobile infantry divisions faster than previously.

In addition we have dozens of armaments developed and perfected which are new in the last ten years and about twenty to be rolled out in the next few.

I am unsure where you are (or are not) getting your information from, but the military industrial complex is well and pooping out new babies.

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RE: Do You Feel Safer 15 Years Later? - 9/7/2016 8:32:47 PM   
KJoeDuo


Posts: 22
Joined: 12/31/2015
Status: offline 		Pithy but inaccurate.
Justice is a concept of cultural norms supported by laws and safety is an emotional state of being and/or a measurable trait in society.

It is easy to be flippant.

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RE: Do You Feel Safer 15 Years Later? - 9/7/2016 8:33:05 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or


quote:

ORIGINAL: KJoeDuo

The American military is decreasing in size; but not quality. This is the same restructuring which occurs after every conflict.

The issue of what POTUS does/does not is a separate issue.


How so ? Are they melting down those boat anchor F-35s and buying MIGs ?

T^T

Boat anchor ? First, the F-35 is a multi-role aircraft. not just a fighter, not just a bomber but an attempt to be both.

So as for your opinion...not according to Major Morten “Dolby” Hanche, one of the Royal Norwegian Air Force experienced pilots and the first to fly the F-35. has more than 2200 hours in the F-16, he is a U.S. Navy Test Pilot School graduate, and currently serves as an instructor and as the Assistant Weapons Officer with the 62nd Fighter Squadron at Luke Air Force Base in Arizona.

He provides an (objective) first-hand account of what dogfighting in the F-35 looks like to a pilot who has a significant experience with the F-16. His conclusions are worth a read.

In this post, however, I write more specifically about my experiences with the F-35 when it does end up in a dogfight. Again, I use the F-16 as my reference. As an F-35-user I still have a lot to learn, but I am left with several impressions. For now my conclusion is that this is an airplane that allows me to be more forward and aggressive than I could ever be in an F-16.

Since I first wrote this post, I have flown additional sorties where I tried an even more aggressive approach to the control position, more aggressive than I thought possible. It worked just fine. The F-35 sticks on like glue, and it is very difficult for the defender to escape.

I would emphasize the term “multirole” after experiencing this jet in many roles, and now also in a dogfight. The F-35 has a real bite! Those in doubt will be surprised when they finally meet this “bomber.”

HERE

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

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RE: Do You Feel Safer 15 Years Later? - 9/7/2016 9:07:55 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Vince, EVERY foreign attack on the US has succeeded.

T^T

That's not true, Termy. Not according to the OP article.

Do you fear any large scale jihadist attacks on the homeland again in the future? The military is not our first line of defense, is it? I don't think so.

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vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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