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RE: Alright, I am a gun owner, but even I think this is... - 9/15/2016 10:17:35 PM   
Termyn8or


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Makes sense, everyone can see you have a gun, should cut down on stupidity.


Again, I disagree I think open carry increases the chance for stupidity.


I disagree. Cops don't hide their guns, how many robberies and other stupidity happens when they're around ?

T^T

When you carry open without the benifit of a badge you invite problems with rabid anti-gunners, Bloombergs site has encouraged "swatting" people who open carry.
Also if you are in a place where you will need a firearm you have made yourself a target.
I do not oppose people having the right to open carry, I just don't think it is a wise choice.


Well, I choose ot to open carry. It does draw attention though it shouldn't. In fact concealed carry should be universally legal so criminals don't know when they might get killed if they try some shit

Until we stop breeding criminals we need something, and feather dusters ain't gonna do the trick.

T^T

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Alright, I am a gun owner, but even I think this is... - 9/16/2016 12:03:50 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick
dafuq?


Dad must have been pulling out, so ocl751 is not all there.


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  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
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(in reply to ThatDizzyChick)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Alright, I am a gun owner, but even I think this is... - 9/16/2016 12:16:18 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
My personal opinion is that everyone that wants to own a gun has the right to do just that.
I also believe that anyone that buys a gun should have to take a mandatory basic firearms safety course, as much for their benefit as the rest of the population.

You do realize these are conflicting comments.

No, they arent.
Think about it this way, when I was in law enforcement, almost 75% of firearm related calls I responded to was not attempted homicide, but some idiot doing some idiot stunt they saw in a fucking movie and either shot themselves or someone else, or they were cleaning an 'unloaded' gun.
In fact, I think Hollywood is the biggest misinformation source when it comes to guns than anything else, both in history and firearms handling.
Around here, a basic firearms safety course is $25 bucks. Hell the range I work at offers the course for free for people thinking of buying their first gun.
All they require is that a background check be run, and then they offer to take the prospective buyer onto the range and give them a basic course, also gives the buyer a chance to figure out just what they want to buy.


Only an idiot emulates Hollywood.
I think that what your place of business does is great.
It worries me though when govenment dictates the course needed as place use things like this which sound reasonable to make the perchase of fireams very difficult.
In DC for example the "common sense" requirements end up costing more than the firearm, and even then they have to get approval for the specific firearm down to it being an approved color.


That's where the NRA should step up and create certification "standards." Would be gun owners have to pass a gun safety course that meets the "standards" set forth by the NRA. Require instructors to be certified through the NRA, and hold the NRA accountable for the information in the course.

I don't know if there are other gun associations akin to the NRA. If there are, allow them to be part of the standards creation process, and part of the instructor certification process.

The Market sets the prices then.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Alright, I am a gun owner, but even I think this is... - 9/16/2016 8:06:11 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Makes sense, everyone can see you have a gun, should cut down on stupidity.


Again, I disagree I think open carry increases the chance for stupidity.


I disagree. Cops don't hide their guns, how many robberies and other stupidity happens when they're around ?

T^T

When you carry open without the benifit of a badge you invite problems with rabid anti-gunners, Bloombergs site has encouraged "swatting" people who open carry.
Also if you are in a place where you will need a firearm you have made yourself a target.
I do not oppose people having the right to open carry, I just don't think it is a wise choice.


Well, I choose ot to open carry. It does draw attention though it shouldn't. In fact concealed carry should be universally legal so criminals don't know when they might get killed if they try some shit

Until we stop breeding criminals we need something, and feather dusters ain't gonna do the trick.

T^T

Oh, I firmly believe in concealed carry. As the Sheriff in the next county put it "I like the idea that the bad guys don't know where it's coming from".

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Alright, I am a gun owner, but even I think this is... - 9/16/2016 8:36:30 AM   
ThatDizzyChick


Posts: 5490
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quote:

As the Sheriff in the next county put it "I like the idea that the bad guys don't know where it's coming from".

And I personally much prefer to know who has a gun

_____________________________

Not your average bimbo.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Alright, I am a gun owner, but even I think this is... - 9/16/2016 8:44:24 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

As the Sheriff in the next county put it "I like the idea that the bad guys don't know where it's coming from".

And I personally much prefer to know who has a gun

Why?
Knowing someone near you would make you uneasy.
Concealed carry eliminates that tension.
A person with a legally concealed firearm has a better chance of saving your life that a person carring open.
I assume you aren't one of the bad guys.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to ThatDizzyChick)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Alright, I am a gun owner, but even I think this is... - 9/16/2016 10:05:38 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

A man who will lose his marbles over a parking place, isn't going to learn anything from a firearm class.

When I purchased my pistol, a retired police officer who is now an instructor taught me how to operate the gun. I go to the range and practice with it, otherwise it is locked away. I considered a CPL, but I don't really care to carry a firearm around with me. I had a terrible fear of pistols, which is one of the reasons I wanted to learn how to safely and confidently handle one.

As for the guy in your post who was yelling at the pregnant lady - I'm glad you called the police - I hope he had his weapons confiscated.

There was a simular incident in Kansas this week.
A woman was putung he child in the car when someone hit her in the head. He must have used a club of some kind as she is in critial condition. And unarmed samaritan tried to help and was shot. a armed citizen interveened and shot one of the two attackers killing him, the other was captured by the police, This is the same kind of person he was talking about who is a danger to society with a set of car keys, even without a car.


You realize for every story such as this there are many more of children killing themselves and others with guns don't you? If pure numbers of saved lives are rationally evaluated and actions taken you could say goodbye to your toys.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Alright, I am a gun owner, but even I think this is... - 9/16/2016 10:26:38 AM   
kdsub


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Joined: 8/16/2007
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Jeff that is not to only part of this conservative Republican legislature gun crazy law. Now in Missouri anyone can use deadly force with a firearm anyplace you feel threatened period. Not just your home or car or family...anyplace...time...or circumstance you feel there is a threat of bodily harm you can draw and fire away legally. There is no requirement to retreat...bast away.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Alright, I am a gun owner, but even I think this is... - 9/16/2016 10:38:36 AM   
WickedsDesire


Posts: 9362
Joined: 11/4/2015
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Now, I could have escalated the situation by pulling the firearm hmm.

Guns kill, end of story, there is no logical, nor coherent counter argument - just mad waffle.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Even I don’t really know what that means.

Many things puzzle me for instant jigsaw puzzles

But the attitude of half of Americas minds to guns perplexes me

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Alright, I am a gun owner, but even I think this is... - 9/16/2016 10:52:15 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Oh, I firmly believe in concealed carry. As the Sheriff in the next county put it "I like the idea that the bad guys don't know where it's coming from".


The Sheriffs in my state are saying something much different Bama with this new law.... They are saying they cannot now keep guns out of the hands of criminals or the unstable. They used to be able to deny a license to people that were trouble makers or had been in previous altercations with police even if they had no convictions. Now these same people can obtain and conceal and carry weapons without the knowledge of law enforcement....and they will not know who is carrying.

What happens when officers are called to an altercation and all five people have drawn weapon... what the hell do they do to protect the innocent and themselves. This will only present more danger to his officers and make more likely death or injury to innocents.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 9/16/2016 11:30:17 AM >


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Alright, I am a gun owner, but even I think this is... - 9/16/2016 11:03:09 AM   
WickedsDesire


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I only found out this year guns didn't have to be concealed in some states/regions.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Alright, I am a gun owner, but even I think this is... - 9/16/2016 11:27:32 AM   
kdsub


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Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
Below is from the Post Dispatch today saying what many Missouri law enforcement think of the new law.


• County sheriffs still will issue state permits after applicants pass training courses, but they’ll have less power to refuse them for reasons of an applicant’s history with law enforcement — even if they don’t have disqualifying convictions. Franklin County Sheriff Gary Toelke said he probably refuses a dozen requests a year from people in his county, where more than 6,000 residents have permits.

“I have no problem with the original law,” said Toelke, who is retiring Dec. 31 after 28 years as sheriff. “I could refuse a permit for somebody who has had frequent contact with the law, or who is a suicide threat. Now that person will be able to carry a concealed weapon, and that concerns me.”

• Applicants can seek lifetime permits for $500 if they don’t want to face the five-year renewal requirement. But lifetime permits aren’t valid outside the state.

Another key change is in the definition of “stand your ground,” which generally protects a person using deadly force to defend his or her home or vehicle. The new law no longer requires people to attempt to back away from trouble in public, as in a tavern parking lot, before using deadly force if there is fear of bodily harm.

Toelke said that part of the law “is going to have to be pinned down more” for deputies who are called to public disruptions.

Kevin Ahlbrand, legislative director for the Missouri Fraternal Order of Police, raised similar concerns. His organization opposed the override. He noted that sponsors of the bill admitted to some of the flaws in debate, but promised to “fix it next year.”

“This is not some type of banking regulation, this is public safety and law enforcement safety,” Ahlbrand said. “To pass a bill that they know there are problems with is unconscionable.”

He is concerned about the status of the few local restrictions left, and fears that some rural legislators don’t understand urban challenges.

“Our biggest fear is criminals who have not been convicted of a felony but are engaged in criminal activity will be legally carrying guns, and we’re now going to have to assume everyone is armed,” Ahlbrand said. “When we show up to a scene and there are five guys with their guns out, what do we do?”

St. Louis Police Chief Sam Dotson said the new law “will leave (citizens) less safe, and make the job of law enforcement more difficult and put our officers in danger.” Dotson also said that eliminating the required training courses necessary for permits means there will be people carrying concealed weapons who don’t know how to use them.

“You just assume everybody knows how to use a gun, but how many people accidentally shoot themselves?” he said. “You have to show us you know how to drive a car, but don’t have to show us you know how to shoot a gun.”


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Alright, I am a gun owner, but even I think this is... - 9/16/2016 2:45:08 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

A man who will lose his marbles over a parking place, isn't going to learn anything from a firearm class.

When I purchased my pistol, a retired police officer who is now an instructor taught me how to operate the gun. I go to the range and practice with it, otherwise it is locked away. I considered a CPL, but I don't really care to carry a firearm around with me. I had a terrible fear of pistols, which is one of the reasons I wanted to learn how to safely and confidently handle one.

As for the guy in your post who was yelling at the pregnant lady - I'm glad you called the police - I hope he had his weapons confiscated.

There was a simular incident in Kansas this week.
A woman was putung he child in the car when someone hit her in the head. He must have used a club of some kind as she is in critial condition. And unarmed samaritan tried to help and was shot. a armed citizen interveened and shot one of the two attackers killing him, the other was captured by the police, This is the same kind of person he was talking about who is a danger to society with a set of car keys, even without a car.


You realize for every story such as this there are many more of children killing themselves and others with guns don't you? If pure numbers of saved lives are rationally evaluated and actions taken you could say goodbye to your toys.

Butch

Since even Bloomberg admits to 500,000 defensivegun uses a year you need to show 2,000,000 kids either killed or killing someone in an accident every year. Estimants by groups that aren't totally anti gun puts the number much higher.
.8% of accidental death envolve firearms... The numbers you tout for MO exceed the number or accidental gun deaths for the whole country, I don't know where your figures come from but they are grossly inaccurate. In 2013 there were 505 firearm related fatal accidents.
Congradulations Mo just became the 11th state with Constitutional carry.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 9/16/2016 2:50:23 PM >


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Alright, I am a gun owner, but even I think this is... - 9/16/2016 2:48:14 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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Estimates of hallucinations without any facts or proof of veracity can be any number. Its like the fantasy trump polls.



_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Alright, I am a gun owner, but even I think this is... - 9/16/2016 7:16:14 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

500,000 defensivegun uses a year


What absolute crap!!! You show me one viable statistic by a law enforcement entity and I'll believe you.

In my area we have had two instances of defensive gun use that I can remember in the last year... and at least 20 local children killed or injured..and that is very conservative.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 9/16/2016 7:17:58 PM >


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Alright, I am a gun owner, but even I think this is... - 9/16/2016 7:20:17 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

The numbers you tout for MO exceed the number or accidental gun deaths for the whole country,


My memory must be fading... would you show me where I quoted to you any statistics such as above.

And why do you just ignore what law enforcement is saying about the new law.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 9/16/2016 7:21:29 PM >


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Alright, I am a gun owner, but even I think this is... - 9/16/2016 8:09:05 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Makes sense, everyone can see you have a gun, should cut down on stupidity.


Again, I disagree I think open carry increases the chance for stupidity.


I disagree. Cops don't hide their guns, how many robberies and other stupidity happens when they're around ?

T^T

When you carry open without the benifit of a badge you invite problems with rabid anti-gunners, Bloombergs site has encouraged "swatting" people who open carry.
Also if you are in a place where you will need a firearm you have made yourself a target.
I do not oppose people having the right to open carry, I just don't think it is a wise choice.


Well, I choose ot to open carry. It does draw attention though it shouldn't. In fact concealed carry should be universally legal so criminals don't know when they might get killed if they try some shit

Until we stop breeding criminals we need something, and feather dusters ain't gonna do the trick.

T^T

I don't have a particular problem with you doing that, I just think it is bad tactics.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Alright, I am a gun owner, but even I think this is... - 9/16/2016 8:11:30 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Jeff that is not to only part of this conservative Republican legislature gun crazy law. Now in Missouri anyone can use deadly force with a firearm anyplace you feel threatened period. Not just your home or car or family...anyplace...time...or circumstance you feel there is a threat of bodily harm you can draw and fire away legally. There is no requirement to retreat...bast away.

Butch

You know that isn't quite accurate.
You need a good reason.
You have to demonstrate that it was reasonable in the situation.
And Constitutional carry is not stand your ground.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Alright, I am a gun owner, but even I think this is... - 9/16/2016 8:14:10 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

Oh, I firmly believe in concealed carry. As the Sheriff in the next county put it "I like the idea that the bad guys don't know where it's coming from".


The Sheriffs in my state are saying something much different Bama with this new law.... They are saying they cannot now keep guns out of the hands of criminals or the unstable. They used to be able to deny a license to people that were trouble makers or had been in previous altercations with police even if they had no convictions. Now these same people can obtain and conceal and carry weapons without the knowledge of law enforcement....and they will not know who is carrying.

What happens when officers are called to an altercation and all five people have drawn weapon... what the hell do they do to protect the innocent and themselves. This will only present more danger to his officers and make more likely death or injury to innocents.

Butch

Sounds terrible, but none of the 10 states that already have Constitutional carry have had anything like that happen.
Also it has no bearing on who can own a gun.
Remember how consealed carry was going to lead to blood flowing in the streets from all the shootouts that would result? Didn't happen, did it?


< Message edited by BamaD -- 9/16/2016 8:20:55 PM >


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Alright, I am a gun owner, but even I think this is... - 9/16/2016 8:17:40 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
double post

< Message edited by BamaD -- 9/16/2016 8:22:42 PM >


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 60
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