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RE: Alright, I am a gun owner, but even I think this is... - 9/19/2016 1:38:15 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

Oh, I firmly believe in concealed carry. As the Sheriff in the next county put it "I like the idea that the bad guys don't know where it's coming from".

The Sheriffs in my state are saying something much different Bama with this new law.... They are saying they cannot now keep guns out of the hands of criminals or the unstable. They used to be able to deny a license to people that were trouble makers or had been in previous altercations with police even if they had no convictions. Now these same people can obtain and conceal and carry weapons without the knowledge of law enforcement....and they will not know who is carrying.

What happens when officers are called to an altercation and all five people have drawn weapon... what the hell do they do to protect the innocent and themselves. This will only present more danger to his officers and make more likely death or injury to innocents.

Butch

First off, these same arguments have been used, and used over again, every time a new state loosens laws and the sky hasn't fallen yet. I remember reading them decades ago about Florida. Second, remember that Sheriffs are elected officials and many are very liberal and spouting the party line.

I have generally found Sheriffs to be more conservative than Police Chiefs.
They are answerable to the people, and the chiefs are answerable to political bosses.
Aparently the Sheriff near kd is voted in by the same people who give St Louis their left wing city government.
The law enforcement in that cesspool are hardly the people whoes advice should be followed.

Concealedcarry was going to lead to blood running in the streets from ccw holdersgetting in to gunfights over nothing, now the same people assure us that constitutional carry when have the same result. They didn't know what they were talking about before, why should we think they do now?

< Message edited by BamaD -- 9/19/2016 1:41:24 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Nnanji)

Post #: 81

RE: Alright, I am a gun owner, but even I think this is... - 9/19/2016 3:17:27 PM

kdsub

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Bama... that Sheriff is from Franklin County... it is heavily Republican and rural. The Missouri Fraternal Order of Police is endorsed by the Republican legislature. It is composed of 6,500 Missouri police officers for all over the state of Missouri. I think it is save and reasonable to say law enforcement in Missouri is disappointed with this new law which they believe will put them at risk.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 82

RE: Alright, I am a gun owner, but even I think this is... - 9/19/2016 3:30:55 PM

kdsub

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Nnanji so you believe it is ok for trouble makers...the unstable and suicidal... your average man or woman to be able to conceal and carry without any training of screening by law enforcement?

You believe the above people should also have the right to shoot to kill at any time or place simply because they fear they may be at risk without the need to retreat?

The law makers themselves have admitted the law will have to be changed in the future...yet they passed this law at the behest of the NRA and for political points...not for the safety of their constituents... I would hope you would not be blindly lead by the nose by the gun lobby like bama.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Nnanji)

Post #: 83

RE: Alright, I am a gun owner, but even I think this is... - 9/19/2016 3:36:34 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Bama... that Sheriff is from Franklin County... it is heavily Republican and rural. The Missouri Fraternal Order of Police is endorsed by the Republican legislature. It is composed of 6,500 Missouri police officers for all over the state of Missouri. I think it is save and reasonable to say law enforcement in Missouri is disappointed with this new law which they believe will put them at risk.

Butch

You do mean safe don't you?
And still you must realize that the bloodbath that was bound to follow ccw didn't happen, the bloodbath that was bound to follow stand your ground didn't happen, but of course if someone says Constitutional carry is bound to lead to a bloodbath they must be right.
How about a cite for the thousands of kids killed in gun accidents?
You demand that I repost cites I have shown you half a dozen times, as have others, but your proof of daily gun accidents involving children has never had anything more that it is what you believe from reading the Post-Dispatch.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 84

RE: Alright, I am a gun owner, but even I think this is... - 9/19/2016 3:41:24 PM

Nnanji

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Nnanji so you believe it is ok for trouble makers...the unstable and suicidal... your average man or woman to be able to conceal and carry without any training of screening by law enforcement?

You believe the above people should also have the right to shoot to kill at any time or place simply because they fear they may be at risk without the need to retreat?

The law makers themselves have admitted the law will have to be changed in the future...yet they passed this law at the behest of the NRA and for political points...not for the safety of their constituents... I would hope you would not be blindly lead by the nose by the gun lobby like bama.

Butch

No, what I said was I've been listening to that exact same inflammatory outcry for decades whenever a state relaxes carry laws and it just doesn't/hasn't happened. I was concerned the first half a dozen times the media cried wolf. Not so much anymore. I believe the last such law was in Arizona in 2010. The law says that anyone legally able to own a gun may carry it concealed without a permit. In the last six years Arizona hasn't turned into the Wild West as predicted. Note it says anyone who can legally own a gun. I'm betting your law says the same. So the laws against owning guns should be enforced rather than making laws that take away my rights. There are plenty of laws to prevent what you've described already on the books. Enforce them and leave me alone.

< Message edited by Nnanji -- 9/19/2016 3:42:00 PM >

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 85

RE: Alright, I am a gun owner, but even I think this is... - 9/19/2016 3:47:25 PM

BamaD

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FR

I just read his statements. He isn't so much worried about the law as some of the details of how it is enforced.
The writter was concerned that a person desn't lose their right of self defense if there is home invasion somewhere that they are a guest.
You failed to notice that he said there is no problem with stand your ground and the most dire indications all come from the writter, not the sheriff.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 86

RE: Alright, I am a gun owner, but even I think this is... - 9/19/2016 3:47:29 PM

kdsub

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Do you even realize you never answer to your mistakes... you just post different attacks as if this forgives your false posts.

I just answered to you accusation the the Sheriff was left wing... do you admit to your mistake... no just more attacks

I just answered to your statement that the law enforcement quoted should be paid attention to because they were in that cesspool...when they are state wide and endorsed by the same legislature that passed the law... do you admit to your mistake... nope just more attacks.

Do you really think people don't see this? You wonder why people treat you with disrespect when it comes to guns...well this is why.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 87

RE: Alright, I am a gun owner, but even I think this is... - 9/19/2016 3:54:51 PM

BamaD

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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Do you even realize you never answer to your mistakes... you just post different attacks as if this forgives your false posts.

I just answered to you accusation the the Sheriff was left wing... do you admit to your mistake... no just more attacks

I just answered to your statement that the law enforcement quoted should be paid attention to because they were in that cesspool...when they are state wide and endorsed by the same legislature that passed the law... do you admit to your mistake... nope just more attacks.

Do you really think people don't see this? You wonder why people treat you with disrespect when it comes to guns...well this is why.

Butch

I corrected you misrepresentatin of the Sheriff's statements.
You live in st Louis, you know it is a cesspool.
I have provided one cite after another proving what I say, you seem to think that your interpretaion of stories slanted the way you want them is givimg cites.
You have to give me a cite from the FBI or the CDC showing the daily deaths of children from gun accidents. You won't because it doesn't happen, even the otter posted a cite from two different sources that blew you out of the water.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 88

RE: Alright, I am a gun owner, but even I think this is... - 9/19/2016 4:04:27 PM

kdsub

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Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

What misrepresentation... it was a direct quote by the man himself...damn... more attacks instead of holding up to your mistakes.

The Missouri Fraternal Order of Police has members from throughout the state and is heavily endorsed and supported by Conservatives...what does this have to do with where I live?... More deflecting from false claims you have no answer to.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 89

RE: Alright, I am a gun owner, but even I think this is... - 9/19/2016 4:30:33 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

What misrepresentation... it was a direct quote by the man himself...damn... more attacks instead of holding up to your mistakes.

The Missouri Fraternal Order of Police has members from throughout the state and is heavily endorsed and supported by Conservatives...what does this have to do with where I live?... More deflecting from false claims you have no answer to.

Butch

Really,he said that the cops could show up with five people holding guns and putting the cops in danger?
Not in the only article I found.
Did he say that stand your gound lets you get away with shooting someone because you "feel threatened" no, just the opposite it said there were no problems with it.
The concerens he expressed where all about verification of crimes people commit and not about any potential bloodbath.
He seemed real concered about potential loopholes in the reporting, concerns I have expressed many times, many of our high profile shooter have been allowed to buy firearms due to how badly the backgound system is screwed up. I have no doubt that you don't recall my saying any such thing because you read what you want me to have said.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 90

RE: Alright, I am a gun owner, but even I think this is... - 9/19/2016 5:20:17 PM

WickedsDesire

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Joined: 11/4/2015
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must I come in with my magnificent presence and put my slippers down, they number two for my claw like feet, - it is of the caliber 4.5 coks, thick cocks or the 47 prime

id anyone rebut bergh neh fukers your guns kill argument wicked nay they just drivelled a violent stream and hoped their kindred would gurgle hah check mate wicked

well said with clarity although i blew my forty foot cock of my bazooka only this morning

< Message edited by WickedsDesire -- 9/19/2016 5:25:27 PM >

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 91

RE: Alright, I am a gun owner, but even I think this is... - 9/19/2016 5:35:53 PM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

Im sorry, but the number isnt "thousands" in a year, sorry but facts so far this year has 729 dead or injured kids since Jan 1st, now we are only in september,
Bama must be thinking of the 7300 veterans who commit suicide a year
Kleck is bollocks, it has been hovering between 65 to 80,000 for a few years now...but again.he doesnt read m y posts with the facts....so let him stumble around like the pratt he is.
He is fooling no one.

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(in reply to WickedsDesire)

Post #: 92

RE: Alright, I am a gun owner, but even I think this is... - 9/19/2016 5:40:15 PM

igor2003

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--FR--

Idaho, where I live, has been an open carry state as far back as I can remember. But did every Tom, Dick, and Dirty Harry carry a firearm with them every day and everywhere they went? No. In the metropolitan areas it was and is rare to see anyone carrying a firearm openly. It is more common in the areas with a lot of ranchers due to the need to eliminate predators like wolves, bears, and cougar to keep them from decimating their herds and flocks, or sometimes needing to dispatch an injured or sick cow or sheep.

As to concealed carry . . .I own, and know quite a number of people who own a CCP. NONE of the people I know that have a CCP routinely carry a concealed firearm. I have only carried a concealed weapon once since I have had my CCP, but it is nice to know that I can if I feel the need. And the same thing can be said of everyone I know that does have a CCP. Idaho recently passed a law similar to Missouri's making it legal for anyone that can legally own a gun to carry it concealed without a license. Most likely, the people that wanted to or had a need to carry a concealed weapon ALREADY had a CCP. I have heard of no rushes on the gun merchants by people hurrying to buy a gun so they can carry it.

And, I believe it was about a year ago that Idaho passed a law making it legal to carry a firearm on college campuses. Now, I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but I have not heard of ANY rapes or assaults happening on any college campuses in the state since the law was passed. Nor have I heard of any shootings, whether provoked or accidental on any Idaho college campuses since the law was passed.

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If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy. - Red Green

At my age erections are like cops...there's never one around when you need it!

Never miss a good chance to shut up. - Will Rogers

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 93

RE: Alright, I am a gun owner, but even I think this is... - 9/19/2016 5:54:06 PM

WickedsDesire

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The average figure for death by gun in America is 40 000pa or 4000 000 per decade......fuk me

(in reply to igor2003)

Post #: 94

RE: Alright, I am a gun owner, but even I think this is... - 9/19/2016 5:58:15 PM

tpeslave4dom

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Well, sure... it's good to be trained, not just in firearm safety but also in tactical pistol applications too (as paper targets don't shoot back or run and duck for cover). But the issue is what basis does the government have in mandating such a thing when we are dealing with a Constitutional right? To mandate formal CPL training and a special ID card is, for all intents, the application of a tax.

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 95

RE: Alright, I am a gun owner, but even I think this is... - 9/19/2016 6:59:49 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003

--FR--

Idaho, where I live, has been an open carry state as far back as I can remember. But did every Tom, Dick, and Dirty Harry carry a firearm with them every day and everywhere they went? No. In the metropolitan areas it was and is rare to see anyone carrying a firearm openly. It is more common in the areas with a lot of ranchers due to the need to eliminate predators like wolves, bears, and cougar to keep them from decimating their herds and flocks, or sometimes needing to dispatch an injured or sick cow or sheep.

As to concealed carry . . .I own, and know quite a number of people who own a CCP. NONE of the people I know that have a CCP routinely carry a concealed firearm. I have only carried a concealed weapon once since I have had my CCP, but it is nice to know that I can if I feel the need. And the same thing can be said of everyone I know that does have a CCP. Idaho recently passed a law similar to Missouri's making it legal for anyone that can legally own a gun to carry it concealed without a license. Most likely, the people that wanted to or had a need to carry a concealed weapon ALREADY had a CCP. I have heard of no rushes on the gun merchants by people hurrying to buy a gun so they can carry it.

And, I believe it was about a year ago that Idaho passed a law making it legal to carry a firearm on college campuses. Now, I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but I have not heard of ANY rapes or assaults happening on any college campuses in the state since the law was passed. Nor have I heard of any shootings, whether provoked or accidental on any Idaho college campuses since the law was passed.

So your experience has been pretty much what the norm has been everywhere else.
Mo must be an alternate reality.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 9/19/2016 7:00:17 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to igor2003)

Post #: 96

RE: Alright, I am a gun owner, but even I think this is... - 9/19/2016 7:05:08 PM

BamaD

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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire

The average figure for death by gun in America is 40 000pa or 4000 000 per decade......fuk me

No it is much lower, and when you subtract suicides (and I have posted the fact that lots of countries with tight gun control have much higher suicide rates) the number of murders and accidents is about 9,000 a year, (still not great, but better than you protray it and half of what that number was 20 years ago). If you want to criticize do so but be honest.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to WickedsDesire)

Post #: 97

RE: Alright, I am a gun owner, but even I think this is... - 9/19/2016 7:27:04 PM

WinsomeDefiance

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Joined: 8/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire

The average figure for death by gun in America is 40 000pa or 4000 000 per decade......fuk me

No it is much lower, and when you subtract suicides (and I have posted the fact that lots of countries with tight gun control have much higher suicide rates) the number of murders and accidents is about 9,000 a year, (still not great, but better than you protray it and half of what that number was 20 years ago). If you want to criticize do so but be honest.

I think his 40k figure is total incedences of lethal and non-lethal. Deaths are under 10,000 if I correctly recall the BoJ report I read recently.

The report was downloaded onto my tablet. I may go back and double check to be sure I'm remembering the statistics correctly.

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 98

RE: Alright, I am a gun owner, but even I think this is... - 9/19/2016 7:32:14 PM

WickedsDesire

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BamaD I myself wish to blow my brains out with a tasty doughnut and if i had kids i would hope it blows my brains out from the back seat*obviously after i finished my doughnut

my figures are correct are they not? You are also a tiny corect
I am prepared to lob of 10-15k for suicide by no dounut – are you okay with those figures?

Do you per chance have a bag of doughnuts and a loan of a bazooka with the 50 mega deadad tonne war heads and tickly shrapnel?

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 99

RE: Alright, I am a gun owner, but even I think this is... - 9/19/2016 7:56:35 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire

BamaD I myself wish to blow my brains out with a tasty doughnut and if i had kids i would hope it blows my brains out from the back seat*obviously after i finished my doughnut

my figures are correct are they not? You are also a tiny corect
I am prepared to lob of 10-15k for suicide by no dounut – are you okay with those figures?

Do you per chance have a bag of doughnuts and a loan of a bazooka with the 50 mega deadad tonne war heads and tickly shrapnel?

They are not.
It starts at 33,000 and you have to lob about 24,000 off for suicides.
The rest of your post is the inchoherence for which you are famous.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to WickedsDesire)

Post #: 100

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