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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster
Not that I agree--but this is a good example of why Europeans should stop taking every opportunity to fling mud at the United States and ask themselves how their continent will fare with less American involvement. Because if we get a Trump presidency, less American involvement is exactly what Europe will experience. AfD has been campaigning for the removal of American forces from Germany. They might just get it!
quote:
ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
Our relationship with Europe has been very good for Europe, but I fail to see what it has done for us (other than cost us a ton of money to be Europe's military force, in most cases).
Yes sadly we all have isolationist movements in our countries.
I think Lordandmaster might be being a little unfair if he wants to characterise the views of the AfD as the settled will of the German people. If you are looking for anti-US sentiments, you will find them in every country. Every country has parties who think that the relationship their country has with the rest of Europe and the US has ruined their country. Parties who believe that their country doesn't need the US or the UK, or Germany or France and would be beeter off without them.
Surprise, surprise if you are looking for anti-British and anti-European sentiments you will find them too. I can't tell you how pleased I am to know that some of you guys think we are a bunch of sponging bastards, likened to feral benefit claimants, who can't run their own country or economy, and are a waste of US time and money and, far from being your friends, we would suck you dry as soon as look at you.
And that's just from these message boards in the last couple of days. (Yes, yes, before someone mentions the obvious, I know there's stuff in the opposite direction as well.)
Just to be a bit more balanced for a moment. The UK has in the words of Awareness has often been "America's lapdog" in recent years and there is criticism of the US and their foreign policy (or more specifically the UK government's support for it). But somewhere between slavish pro-Americanism (which does exist) and anti-Americanism is the actual situation. The Americans are friends and allies we sometimes disagree with but generally value and appreciate.
It is the same with the American view of the UK. Despite the love-ins between Reagan and Maggie, and then Bush and Blair, there has always been some pretty direct anti-British feeling in the US. Americans have never wanted to be told what to do by the "imperialist" Brits. More moderately there have been many calls to shift attention to the Pacific and the South (which we all know is just code for letting Europe look after itself because we are troublesome and take up too much time).
We are all adults. We can all take criticism. We are all bigger than taking the hump when we see a political movement in someone else's country that we don't like (or more to the point doesn't like us). We never agreed to get married. We agreed to work with each other in an often hostile world.
And since 1945 Europe and the US have worked with each other for the better, despite the disagreements and difficulties.
I no more like the isolationism in the UK that led to the Brexit vote, than I like the isolationist movements in other European countries or the US. The arguments are pretty similar everywhere - "let's concentrate on ourselves and to hell with everybody else". It's ugly and it is not the best for our people, governments, economies or our security.
I wish we hadn't voted to leave the EU, but what worried me more was the hate-filled isolationism that drove some people to vote that way. I don't want to reopen the Brexit debate, but there is a reason why the first thing our new Prime Minister did was to tell other European leaders that we were still their friend and ally. I'd far rather be their partner in Europe but I certainly don't want us to lose our European neighbours as friends and allies as well.
We can all focus on the criticism and use it as an excuse for turning in on ourselves, but we will all be poorer and less safe as a result.
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RE: There is one thing I agree with Trump on.... - 
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