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RE: 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism - 7/24/2006 6:38:36 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		How To Become A Dictator (recipe for one)
Take one well defined group of people who find themselves in a difficult situation - could be a religious group,  national or ethnic group.Choose wisely - it is essential to ensure purity of ingredients later, so whilst you can combine these groups you should be careful that their flavours will go together. You dont want to have to throw any more than say, 10% away later. For example, you can combine religious and ethnic groups but be careful about combining ethnic and national groups in mixed populations. Avoid using off the shelf political groups as these tend to be difficult ingredients for novice dictators - its best to pick your own to taste.
Ensure the difficulty of the situation is heightened - maybe stage a few events that will increase the difficulty level or raise perceptions of the problem - such spicing is essential to get the right result. Mix it thoroughly, but dont get caught with sticky fingers or blood on your hands (yet).
Set on a low heat, then gradually turn up the heat over time. Whilst doing this, locate a scapegoat - this should be a person or group on which you can pin the source of the whole problem. Keep the heat on whilst you reduce problem to one digestible but bitter pill.
When boiling over, step in with radical policies to solve the problem - ensure you have your scapegoat well prepared for this stage as it will require severe beating. NB - your policies dont necessarily have to work.
Turn the heat down and then beat the scapegoat well until its barely recognisable, then throw it away.
Your radical policies will by now be seen to be half baked - however, this is not a reason to stop cooking. Next, take say 5% of your original ingredients and put the heat under them until they confess to having sabotaged your policies until now. Hang from the rafters for all to see. Continue until your group acqueisces and is ready to serve.
Preparation time - 5-10 years. Serves one. Suitable for almost any Party, but not a dinner party
E




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RE: 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism - 7/24/2006 6:55:52 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/7/14/134142/848

John Dean writes in "Conservatives Without Conscious"......
When Fascism Comes To America It Will Be Wearing A Smile & Carrying A Bible.

A special thanks for my new friend Peter

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RE: 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism - 7/24/2006 9:42:39 AM   
peterK50


Posts: 433
Joined: 1/12/2006
Status: offline 		It's easy to wrap oneself in the flag & beat people with a bible. Why listen o anyone when you're doing what God wants? There is a difference between patriotism & jingoism, [my country right or wrong]. A democracy cannot exist with a govenment run in secrecy.

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RE: 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism - 7/24/2006 10:08:54 AM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Every democratic government runs in secret in certain areas. Do you know everything that the government is doing? And once again I will ask, what rights have you lost? Why is that such a hard question to answer?

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RE: 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism - 7/24/2006 10:36:21 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		Off Topic:

<<Seeking: A Young Nymphomaniac Gymnast, Deaf/Mute Who Owns a Golf Course & Micro-Brewery >>

Now, if you can lick your eyebrows.. that might help your search 

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RE: 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism - 7/24/2006 10:40:56 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

Every democratic government runs in secret in certain areas. Do you know everything that the government is doing? And once again I will ask, what rights have you lost? Why is that such a hard question to answer?


A right to privacy for one (in the name of homeland security).  The eroding of a woman's right to choose.  The right to have medical research done outside of his religeoius beliefs.  Now he has signed a bill today that says the flag can be flown regardless of what the homeowners associations say.  Great, HE can pay my damn monthly payment to it then! 

Now, back to the topic at hand- Fascim

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RE: 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism - 7/24/2006 10:46:54 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		What right to privacy have women lost in this country recently?

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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism - 7/24/2006 11:00:38 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		See Above: " The eroding of a woman's right to choose."

The Morning After pill for one. If a pharmacist can refuse to issue it because HE feels it's immoral.. then we have a problem. 

It's an erosion-  I'm old now- I don't have to worry about things like abortion or getting preganant. But gee.. what's next?  Refuse me my medication after a certain age becuase it's my duty to die?

Now back to the Fascism Thread folks

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RE: 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism - 7/24/2006 11:14:12 AM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		Lotus, you and I usually see eye-to-eye, but while I respect you right to have whatever opinion you want, I just don't agree with this one.
 
The woman's right to choose is not a woman's issue ... it's a social issue, and a very hot one at that. You, and many other women may not be getting your/their way on that issue, but what do you want to bet that if the law changed today, there would be an equal number of women that insisted that they had lost something. You haven't lost any freedom, and especially haven't lost it as a women. What you are, is on the minus side of an issue that is always going to have people on the minus side.
 
The morning after pill is a non-issue, The patch works better and is idiot proof. They even make them in all kinds of cool colors now. Trust me, it's totally hawt to wear really low huggers out on a date and let your patch show. It kind of lets you date know where he stands ... in a subtle, but not so subtle way. An added plus ... if he asks what it is, you know you are dating someone that you don't want to let in your pants. 
 
Bottom line, I don't believe we've lost any measurable amount of freedoms in this country. Some freedoms have changed ... some are no longer applicable, and some are political footballs where someone is going to gain, and other lose.
 
That just is, what it is.

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RE: 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism - 7/24/2006 11:35:32 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		Here's another:  http://www.nwlc.org/pdf/AdminRecordOnWomenExecSummary2004.pdf

And now for 2006:

http://www.nwlc.org/pdf/SupremeCourtFactsheetMay06.pdf

Just Google "erosion women's rights Bush"  There's a lot.

< Message edited by LotusSong -- 7/24/2006 11:49:32 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 70
RE: 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism - 7/24/2006 11:40:58 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		HI Caitlyn :)

I don't mind discussion.  :)
Check out the link up there and let me know what you think. It's so much more than reproductive rights. Let me know what you think.

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RE: 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism - 7/24/2006 12:58:51 PM   
peterK50


Posts: 433
Joined: 1/12/2006
Status: offline 		What rights have I lost? That IS a difficult question to answer. I don't know if my phone calls are being tapped, my bank accounts scrutinized, my mail opened, my tax returns shared with other agency's, or anyone of a thousand other insults to a lawful US citizen. But if any of these things happen to even one of us, then we are all in jeopardy.

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RE: 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism - 7/24/2006 1:04:21 PM   
MasterRenegade77


Posts: 1852
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Upstate N.Y. (Broome Co.)
Status: offline
Good Post an excellent Reminder...


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RE: 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism - 7/24/2006 3:00:20 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Hi All

In response to Peter's post, for those in any doubt about it in the UK - all of your information is shared, some of it between government departments, some of it between commercial institutions, some of each category is swapped between the two. Whenever you shop and pay with your card, the information of what you bought is logged. Put together the thousands of purchases you make every year and one can get a good idea of who you are simply from what you buy. Put that with the information the government has about you (tax records and returns, marital status and dependents, car ownership, job etc) and the information held about you by the likes of MI5 and the financial industry, and one has a very good picture of you, where you go and what you do. We even know whom you vote for at elections, what clubs and societies you belong to and what websites you visit. Next up, they want my genetic code on an identity card with a handy little chip that will record all sorts about me that they can read but I cant.

Now supposing you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear of course...... but at the same time, I am frightened. I am what I'd consider a good member of society, I pay my taxes, dont break the law and never have etc. So why so much interest in what I do? If I have nothing to hide, then they have no reason to examine me surely? And if I were to do something which would warrant such attention, do they really think I'd be so stupid as to use my own identity to do it so they could come and get me?

Of course, our current democracy hints at no dark intention for all this information - but times can change, and by producing such data we are handing a possible goldmine to any future fascist government. Locating and rounding up opponents was easy enough with card systems in the old days - with IT systems it will be a cinch and leave no possible opponent to escape.

The current government purposes for such information is to identify and monitor risks to public order and safety, to ensure taxes are gathered and to establish rights to social and health benefits. The commercial uses are to put together marketing profiles for direct mail campaigns and such like. Lets all do what we can to ensure that this is as far as it goes.
E

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RE: 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism - 7/24/2006 3:09:18 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		Thank you, Ellen.
 
While reading your post I had one greater fear.  With all the info they can attain, what would it take to wipe out all your information in  the public record as if you were never born, thus curtailing  the ability to work, live, buy food., anything in which you needed to prove an identity.
 
Kind of George Orwellish- but if they wanted to "get us"- it'd be a way of eliminating a group without fireing a shot, just hit the delete button on a central computer.

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RE: 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism - 7/24/2006 3:14:38 PM   
peterK50


Posts: 433
Joined: 1/12/2006
Status: offline 		"Now supposing you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear of course", sound reasonable LadyEllen, you have nothing to hide. Until suddenly your copy of "1984" makes the g'ovt wonder about you. In the current climate the authorities decide if you have nothing to hide. In the USA the administration put the Quaker religion under F.B.I. surveillence because they believe if peace, which to this bunch means anti-war, which is anti-Bush. So who knows if you have nothing to hide LadyEllen?

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Profile   Post #: 76
RE: 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism - 7/24/2006 3:25:51 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Hi Peter

It was tongue in cheek by the way!

Every one of us has something to hide, thats the nature of being a private citizen, that we are private - except that we're not any more. I have an MI5 file, simply because I follow Asatru (Viking paganism) and so I must be some sort of nutter hellbent on overthrowing the government presumably. Between us, I am, but I prefer the ballot box!

I have 1984 and Animal Farm on my bookshelf by the way - crikey I'd best make a run for it now!

E

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RE: 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism - 7/24/2006 4:18:26 PM   
peterK50


Posts: 433
Joined: 1/12/2006
Status: offline 		Everybody has something to hide 'cept for me & my monkey   



sorry I'm so dense LadyEllen

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RE: 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism - 7/24/2006 4:41:52 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		Lady Ellen,

What is an M15 file?

Thank you :)

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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism - 7/24/2006 5:21:47 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
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quote:

ORIGINAL: peterK50

"Now supposing you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear of course", sound reasonable LadyEllen, you have nothing to hide. Until suddenly your copy of "1984" makes the g'ovt wonder about you. In the current climate the authorities decide if you have nothing to hide. In the USA the administration put the Quaker religion under F.B.I. surveillence because they believe if peace, which to this bunch means anti-war, which is anti-Bush. So who knows if you have nothing to hide LadyEllen?


If you are referring to this http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0322-03.htm 1999 would not have been the current administration.

As far as the AFSC goes, I think it has been quite a while since they were representative of the religon of Quakerism.

Every administration puts individual liberties behind political ambition, and pays lip service to freedom while working to abuse it.

The question is, why would anyone believe that only 'they' do it?

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