RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men?

RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men? (Full Version)

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Danemora -> RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men? (11/8/2016 12:09:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick quote: Being naturally submissive was linked to conception by her. No, not at all. She linked the basic biological function of a female (of just about every species - I think there are some sea horses that do it the other way round) to submissiveness. OsideGirl's inability to conceive does not alter the basic biological function of a female human (to conceive and bear children). In fact, her inability to fulfill this basic biological function has no bearing on the issue at all. I didnt make the statement. Tamaka did. If Oside or any other woman cant conceive, their basic biological function as you define it (the ability to conceive and bear children) is altered. You said tamaka linked basic female biological fuction with submissiveness. So if a submissive woman like Oside cant fulfill that basic biological function, the conclusion following tamaka's flawed logic is that Oside isnt submissive.

tamaka -> RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men? (11/8/2016 12:11:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker quote: ORIGINAL: Danemora Tamaka did actually. Being naturally submissive was linked to conception by her. And since Oside cant, what does that make her according to tamaka? Not submissive. And since Oside isnt conceiving, she isnt submissive, and therefore her D/s relationship with her M really isnt valid. Since...you know...she isnt submissivr. At least according to tamaka anyway I may be wrong, but I think that was just ONE reason she has for believing what she does. There could be other biological aspects that make women more 'naturally' submissive, so maybe Oside has one of those attributes instead. I'm guessing the pileup that has resulted because of her reproduction comments is going to leave us all in suspense over what those other attributes are, however. Apparently sex as human bonding and sex as pleasure aren't good reasons to have sex, though, so I'm pretty sad about that. I don't know if i should bother when all i will get is more of the same.

ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men? (11/8/2016 12:23:16 PM)
quote: If I don't possess the ability to conceive, I'm not submissive. That is not what she said. What you are apparently missing here is the fact that your ability to conceive has no bearing on your basic biological function as a female human being. The basic biological function of a male is to impregnate a female and so produce offspring and the basic biological function of a female is to be impregnated and thus produce offspring. The biological function of any animal (or plant for that matter) is to produce offspring. This basic design/function is in no way altered by any particular person/animal/plant's fertility or lack thereof. Her argument really had very little to do with conception, but was rather based on the manner of conception. See, her argument was that since a human female has to "receive" sperm from a male, that somehow makes her inherently submissive. A similarly inane argument could be made that since it is the female that receives the sperm, the male is inherently submissive as he must give/surrender his sperm to her. It is quite clear that you, and others, have totally misunderstood her asinine argument.

PeonForHer -> RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men? (11/8/2016 12:25:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Awareness quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: They were called enablers up thread Yep, I recall that. Ironically, it prompted a diametrically opposed sort of thought for me. Something that sometimes gives me pause is the question of just how much certain femsubs might 'enable' the most harmful traits in dominant men. I think of the aggression, the competitiveness ... this whole cold world of 'winners' and 'losers' that seems to put so many men in early graves. How many of them must live in a world of battles that they absolutely must win, lest their femsub ditch them in favour of someone 'more Alpha'? I shudder at the thought of all that, but thank my stars that I don't have to be imprisoned in the stereotypically dominant masculine role any more. It doesn't help that I see so many physically unhealthy dominant males around, either. Still, that last is purely anecdotal: dominant males are on the periphery of my life. It's not my world and I have very little interest in it. Tell me, does that broken record ever finish? To quote another poster, assuming her kind permission: Irony, thy name is Awareness. [;)]

ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men? (11/8/2016 12:33:03 PM)
quote: If Oside or any other woman cant conceive, their basic biological function as you define it (the ability to conceive and bear children) is altered. But it isn't. The basic function of anything is not altered by it's ability or inability to fulfill that function. The basic function of a bicycle tire inner tube is to hold air, if it is punctured it will no longer hold air, yet that does not alter the fact that holding air is it's function. Similarly, a female human's basic function is to bear children, her ability to do so does not alter that function. Remember, biology does not deal in individuals. Thus, according to tamaka's weird idea, it is the fact that the basic root biological function of OsideGirl is to bear children that makes her somehow naturally submissive. The fact that in her specific case she is unable to fulfill that function does not impact her supposed natural submissiveness, as it is the intent of the design, rather than the execution of it that is the determining factor. What's more it is the manner in which the biological function is performed (her "receiving" the sperm) that is at the root of this supposed natural submissiveness. Presumably, if human procreation was performed in a manner similar to that of fish, then there would be no natural dominance or submission among humans.

tamaka -> RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men? (11/8/2016 12:35:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick quote: If I don't possess the ability to conceive, I'm not submissive. That is not what she said. What you are apparently missing here is the fact that your ability to conceive has no bearing on your basic biological function as a female human being. The basic biological function of a male is to impregnate a female and so produce offspring and the basic biological function of a female is to be impregnated and thus produce offspring. The biological function of any animal (or plant for that matter) is to produce offspring. This basic design/function is in no way altered by any particular person/animal/plant's fertility or lack thereof. Her argument really had very little to do with conception, but was rather based on the manner of conception. See, her argument was that since a human female has to "receive" sperm from a male, that somehow makes her inherently submissive. A similarly inane argument could be made that since it is the female that receives the sperm, the male is inherently submissive as he must give/surrender his sperm to her. It is quite clear that you, and others, have totally misunderstood her asinine argument. After she opens and receives his seed, she surrenders her body for the next 9 months to support the growth of the human being inside of her and then she surrenders again to the process of birthing the baby where she has to open up completely to allow the baby's passage out. Those are the most obvious biological functions of surrender which a woman experiences in which females (not males) were uniquely designed for.

PeonForHer -> RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men? (11/8/2016 12:38:15 PM)
quote: See, her argument was that since a human female has to "receive" sperm from a male, that somehow makes her inherently submissive. A similarly inane argument could be made that since it is the female that receives the sperm, the male is inherently submissive as he must give/surrender his sperm to her. That's one. Another is that the vagina isn't 'entered' by a penis; rather, the vagina can be seen to 'envelop' the penis. It doesn't matter that most of the terms used to describe sexual intercourse are male-active (or were, until relatively recently - I'm thinking of 'fucking') - that's just a conventional linguistic take on it.

PeonForHer -> RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men? (11/8/2016 12:44:46 PM)
quote: After she opens and receives his seed, she surrenders her body for the next 9 months to support the growth of the human being inside of her and then she surrenders again to the process of birthing the baby where she has to open up completely to allow the baby's passage out. Those are the most obvious biological functions of surrender which a woman experiences in which females (not males) were uniquely designed for. Suppose you rephrase that to 'After she envelopes him and takes his seed, she then grows her prize, the unborn baby, inside of her. As a test of her strength and ability to bear pain, she then gives birth and holds her prize in her hands'. Or some such. You can see how all that gets turned into an act of dominance and strength.

tamaka -> RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men? (11/8/2016 12:47:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: See, her argument was that since a human female has to "receive" sperm from a male, that somehow makes her inherently submissive. A similarly inane argument could be made that since it is the female that receives the sperm, the male is inherently submissive as he must give/surrender his sperm to her. That's one. Another is that the vagina isn't 'entered' by a penis; rather, the vagina can be seen to 'envelop' the penis. It doesn't matter that most of the terms used to describe sexual intercourse are male-active (or were, until relatively recently - I'm thinking of 'fucking') - that's just a conventional linguistic take on it. How does the sperm fertilize the egg?

heavyblinker -> RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men? (11/8/2016 12:50:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka After she opens and receives his seed, she surrenders her body for the next 9 months to support the growth of the human being inside of her and then she surrenders again to the process of birthing the baby where she has to open up completely to allow the baby's passage out. Those are the most obvious biological functions of surrender which a woman experiences in which females (not males) were uniquely designed for. So I guess you were in fact talking about childbirth as submission? Why don't you talk about guys 'surrendering' their seed, or for that matter their member? This is seriously goofy.

PeonForHer -> RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men? (11/8/2016 12:54:17 PM)
quote: How does the sperm fertilize the egg? Similar to the way a tiny, tiny wasp stings a human ... isn't it?

PeonForHer -> RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men? (11/8/2016 12:55:52 PM)
quote: Sort of like when a guy penetrates a shark's mouth with his head, and the shark's teeth submit to his neck, and then his head then travels into the shark's stomach where the shark surrenders to the process of digestion and then the shark is forced to deposit the former head out into the ocean. It's beautiful, really. I remember that sort of Freudian talk everywhere when 'Jaws' came out.

tamaka -> RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men? (11/8/2016 12:58:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: How does the sperm fertilize the egg? Similar to the way a tiny, tiny wasp stings a human ... isn't it? You are avoiding the question.

tamaka -> RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men? (11/8/2016 1:02:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: After she opens and receives his seed, she surrenders her body for the next 9 months to support the growth of the human being inside of her and then she surrenders again to the process of birthing the baby where she has to open up completely to allow the baby's passage out. Those are the most obvious biological functions of surrender which a woman experiences in which females (not males) were uniquely designed for. Suppose you rephrase that to 'After she envelopes him and takes his seed, she then grows her prize, the unborn baby, inside of her. As a test of her strength and ability to bear pain, she then gives birth and holds her prize in her hands'. Or some such. You can see how all that gets turned into an act of dominance and strength. She doesn't grow it... she surrenders her body to be an incubator in which it grows itself. How does she give birth... by opening... and yes, she receives a lot of pain in the process as well which i guarantee she would rather not have to deal with. Dominance involves control. She has no control of the process.

tamaka -> RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men? (11/8/2016 1:04:27 PM)
*see above

ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men? (11/8/2016 1:07:48 PM)
quote: After she opens and receives his seed, she surrenders her body for the next 9 months to support the growth of the human being inside of her and then she surrenders again to the process of birthing the baby where she has to open up completely to allow the baby's passage out. Those are the most obvious biological functions of surrender which a woman experiences in which females (not males) were uniquely designed for. You mean "After she allows him to enter and draws his seed out of him." right? And after making his tribute to her clearly biologically more vital role, he goes away and serves no further purpose other than to protect and preserve the female who goes about the process of actually taking his small offering and creating a life with it. Seems to me that it is him that is doing the surrendering here. See how easy it is to turn this around? That is because your argument is quite simply bullshit. It makes no sense whatsoever, it is completely illogical. You may well be correct that there is something inherently submissive in human females, but the reason you have given to support that supposition is simply idiotic. A far better argument would be the cultural predominance of patriarchal societies, one could claim that this overwhelming predominance implies an underlying natural order of things. This is, in fact, something I have pondered for a while now, without really coming to a satisfactory conclusion, though I am at this point inclined to think that there might be something to this idea. As far as the submissiveness or dominance of any gender goes, the best one can say is that women are socially conditioned to display a submissive manner in the overwhelmingly vast majority of the world's societies.

PeonForHer -> RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men? (11/8/2016 1:08:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: How does the sperm fertilize the egg? Similar to the way a tiny, tiny wasp stings a human ... isn't it? You are avoiding the question. I was trying to give you an answer that felt relevant to the debate at hand. It seemed to me that you were trying to offer a case in which the dominant act was clearly male. But I cannot see why a sperm fertilizing an egg is clearly a dominant act by the sperm at all. Even leaving aside the obvious point that a sperm is only a part of a man and an egg is only a part of a woman - how does that make any sense beyond picking whatever metaphors you want to pick?

ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men? (11/8/2016 1:11:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: After she opens and receives his seed, she surrenders her body for the next 9 months to support the growth of the human being inside of her and then she surrenders again to the process of birthing the baby where she has to open up completely to allow the baby's passage out. Those are the most obvious biological functions of surrender which a woman experiences in which females (not males) were uniquely designed for. Suppose you rephrase that to 'After she envelopes him and takes his seed, she then grows her prize, the unborn baby, inside of her. As a test of her strength and ability to bear pain, she then gives birth and holds her prize in her hands'. Or some such. You can see how all that gets turned into an act of dominance and strength. She doesn't grow it... she surrenders her body to be an incubator in which it grows itself. How does she give birth... by opening... and yes, she receives a lot of pain in the process as well which i guarantee she would rather not have to deal with. Dominance involves control. She has no control of the process. LOL Oh dear lord, you really are funny, did you know that? And if she wants a child, then she really isn't surrendering her body at all is she, rather she is using her body's natural abilities to gain her goals. You know, kinda like knowing what you want and going for it, you know the way dominant men are supposed to do.

tamaka -> RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men? (11/8/2016 1:15:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick quote: After she opens and receives his seed, she surrenders her body for the next 9 months to support the growth of the human being inside of her and then she surrenders again to the process of birthing the baby where she has to open up completely to allow the baby's passage out. Those are the most obvious biological functions of surrender which a woman experiences in which females (not males) were uniquely designed for. You mean "After she allows him to enter and draws his seed out of him." right? And after making his tribute to her clearly biologically more vital role, he goes away and serves no further purpose other than to protect and preserve the female who goes about the process of actually taking his small offering and creating a life with it. Seems to me that it is him that is doing the surrendering here. See how easy it is to turn this around? That is because your argument is quite simply bullshit. It makes no sense whatsoever, it is completely illogical. You may well be correct that there is something inherently submissive in human females, but the reason you have given to support that supposition is simply idiotic. A far better argument would be the cultural predominance of patriarchal societies, one could claim that this overwhelming predominance implies an underlying natural order of things. This is, in fact, something I have pondered for a while now, without really coming to a satisfactory conclusion, though I am at this point inclined to think that there might be something to this idea. As far as the submissiveness or dominance of any gender goes, the best one can say is that women are socially conditioned to display a submissive manner in the overwhelmingly vast majority of the world's societies. We are talking about submitting. A woman submits her body every step of the way to fufilll her biological function. A man does not 'submit' ... he ejaculates which is a forceful act, not a submissive act. It is forceful because biologically he wants to force his seed as deep into the receiver as he can. From there on his sperm continue his forceful act ... a male 'Survival of the fittest' to penetrate the egg.

tamaka -> RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men? (11/8/2016 1:17:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: After she opens and receives his seed, she surrenders her body for the next 9 months to support the growth of the human being inside of her and then she surrenders again to the process of birthing the baby where she has to open up completely to allow the baby's passage out. Those are the most obvious biological functions of surrender which a woman experiences in which females (not males) were uniquely designed for. Suppose you rephrase that to 'After she envelopes him and takes his seed, she then grows her prize, the unborn baby, inside of her. As a test of her strength and ability to bear pain, she then gives birth and holds her prize in her hands'. Or some such. You can see how all that gets turned into an act of dominance and strength. She doesn't grow it... she surrenders her body to be an incubator in which it grows itself. How does she give birth... by opening... and yes, she receives a lot of pain in the process as well which i guarantee she would rather not have to deal with. Dominance involves control. She has no control of the process. LOL Oh dear lord, you really are funny, did you know that? And if she wants a child, then she really isn't surrendering her body at all is she, rather she is using her body's natural abilities to gain her goals. You know, kinda like knowing what you want and going for it, you know the way dominant men are supposed to do. The only way she can use her body to achieve her goals is by allowing herself to submit to the process of submitting.

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