RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men?

RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men? (Full Version)

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tamaka -> RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men? (11/8/2016 2:58:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Danemora quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka Well anything is possible. I guess time will tell. If time will tell, and you're convinced of the ultimate success of male dominance over 'weak and pathetic' men, then why are you so bothered by their existence? If your own biological programming is necessarily superior to theirs, why do you even notice they're around? They're nothing to you. Inferior specimen. Not worth your time and effort. Why bother despising them? I just think it's really sad for them. But luckily i don't deal with them in real life... thank God. No, but you do devote quite a bit of time, effort, and energy to bitching about them Yes because i'm not the kind of person to take advantage of them. I suppose you think that is a better way for a woman to spend her time with them.

tamaka -> RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men? (11/8/2016 2:59:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick quote: Why bother despising them? because it makes her feel better about herself would be my guess. that is usually the underlying motivation for irrational hatred. Hatred... lol

ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men? (11/8/2016 3:00:39 PM)
Well, if I am to put on my amateur psychologist hat (which we all are doing here), my guess would be tht she does not actually believe that she is indeed living a superior life, and therefore has to belittle submissive men to make herself feel s though what she is doing is in fact superior, rather than simply accepting that she is kind of fucked up and enjoys submitting to her man to the degree she does. I had a similar sort of internal conflict coming to terms with being a masochist, I tried to tell myself that I did not actually enjoy the pain, but rather that I enjoyed enduring it for his pleasure. And that also led me to thinking that this somehow made me better and nobler than the "baser" masochists who sought out the pain for their own pleasure. We tell ourselves a lot of weird ass shit in order to feel better about ourselves.

Danemora -> RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men? (11/8/2016 3:01:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: Danemora quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka Well anything is possible. I guess time will tell. If time will tell, and you're convinced of the ultimate success of male dominance over 'weak and pathetic' men, then why are you so bothered by their existence? If your own biological programming is necessarily superior to theirs, why do you even notice they're around? They're nothing to you. Inferior specimen. Not worth your time and effort. Why bother despising them? I just think it's really sad for them. But luckily i don't deal with them in real life... thank God. No, but you do devote quite a bit of time, effort, and energy to bitching about them Yes because i'm not the kind of person to take advantage of them. I suppose you think that is a better way for a woman to spend her time with them. But if they are weak and pathetic as you say they are, why does it bother you if they are being taken advantage of or not?

UllrsIshtar -> RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men? (11/8/2016 3:02:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Awareness quote: ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar Same question as I posed to tamaka: You're inherently superior. You challenge. You conquer. You have standards. You take responsibility for your future and that of those who depend on you. They're weak, pathetic, grovelling, sniveling losers who give up their birthright. How could they ever be enough of a bother to you so that you would even deem to take notice of them, let alone spare the energy to despise them? A) Having an opinion doesn't require energy. B) Just because a man's been inculcated with idiocy, doesn't mean it's impossible for him to change. C) Their existence is part of a larger ideological framework which aims to deny and defang masculinity. They're effectively a subset - the male sub/feminist combo is incredibly common - of a larger cultural war taking place in our societies which aims to deny gender differences. Tamaka partially touched on this earlier. Societies which undermine masculinity are societies which will be ripped to shreds by their less feminised competitors. This is already happening in Britain - which will be part of an Islamic Caliphate within the next 20 or so years. Cultures compete and right now, Western societies are competing with the Asian tigers and Islamic imperialists. We need masculinity in order to survive and compete effectively. Some submissive men may be biological, but a whole shitload of them are psychologically created - and I suspect many of them are created through the indoctrination which has been imposed in schools and universities. So, in answer to your question: Why does anyone comment on something they disagree with? Or rather, why does anyone jump into a conversation where half a dozen clique members are beating up on an individual and trying to overwhelm them with volume? Because I disagree and if people aren't prepared to take the floor and disagree with this fucking madness, then our societies are headed well and truly down the toilet. Fair enough. Thank you for explaining your reasons.

tamaka -> RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men? (11/8/2016 3:02:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick Well, if I am to put on my amateur psychologist hat (which we all are doing here), my guess would be tht she does not actually believe that she is indeed living a superior life, and therefore has to belittle submissive men to make herself feel s though what she is doing is in fact superior, rather than simply accepting that she is kind of fucked up and enjoys submitting to her man to the degree she does. I had a similar sort of internal conflict coming to terms with being a masochist, I tried to tell myself that I did not actually enjoy the pain, but rather that I enjoyed enduring it for his pleasure. And that also led me to thinking that this somehow made me better and nobler than the "baser" masochists who sought out the pain for their own pleasure. We tell ourselves a lot of weird ass shit in order to feel better about ourselves. More like i feel that men should not be doing what i am doing.

ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men? (11/8/2016 3:02:59 PM)
quote: Just because a man's been inculcated with idiocy, doesn't mean it's impossible for him to change. very true, which is why we still hold out some small hope for you.

tamaka -> RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men? (11/8/2016 3:03:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Danemora quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: Danemora quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka Well anything is possible. I guess time will tell. If time will tell, and you're convinced of the ultimate success of male dominance over 'weak and pathetic' men, then why are you so bothered by their existence? If your own biological programming is necessarily superior to theirs, why do you even notice they're around? They're nothing to you. Inferior specimen. Not worth your time and effort. Why bother despising them? I just think it's really sad for them. But luckily i don't deal with them in real life... thank God. No, but you do devote quite a bit of time, effort, and energy to bitching about them Yes because i'm not the kind of person to take advantage of them. I suppose you think that is a better way for a woman to spend her time with them. But if they are weak and pathetic as you say they are, why does it bother you if they are being taken advantage of or not? Because i care.

shiftyw -> RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men? (11/8/2016 3:05:27 PM)
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Danemora -> RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men? (11/8/2016 3:06:10 PM)
Care about them how? And Im asking because Im honestly interested in what you have to say.

ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men? (11/8/2016 3:10:37 PM)
quote: More like i feel that men should not be doing what i am doing. Which is exactly the way I used think about masochists. See to my, admittedly fucked up thinking, my doing it was OK and right, because it wasn't for my benefit. But a masochist doing it was wrong and not OK, because they were doing it for their own benefit. So, again, this is just my impression, I would say that you feel that way because it allows you to tell yourself that you are submitting, not because you want to do so, but because it is just the natural order of things and when a man submits it runs counter to that excuse, and thus their mere existence threatens the mental structure you have created in order to feel better about what you do. I my well be wrong, however, based on the arguments and statements you have made in defense of your beliefs, I do not think I m off by much.

UllrsIshtar -> RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men? (11/8/2016 3:12:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick I had a similar sort of internal conflict coming to terms with being a masochist, I tried to tell myself that I did not actually enjoy the pain, but rather that I enjoyed enduring it for his pleasure. And that also led me to thinking that this somehow made me better and nobler than the "baser" masochists who sought out the pain for their own pleasure. I had a similar sort of process, though I ended up a little different than you did. I finally realized that I'm both a masochist, and an 'endurance bottom', in the sense that there are certain types of pain that I enjoy for the sake of the pain itself (heavy thud for instance) and there's a certain kind of pain that I don't enjoy for its own sake at all, but enjoy suffering for the sake of pleasing somebody else. I play with some pretty hardcore sadists (think Kana, though I haven't played with him yet) and one of the complaints some of them have is that play with masochists sometimes remains shallow to them, because there's no actual suffering involved. I enjoy being the 'sacrificial lamb' for them, and to suffer in ways I really don't enjoy for its own sake, because it makes them happy. I ended up doing a scene like that this weekend... needles being shoved under my fingernails, knife tips on pressure points deep enough to draw blood (including on the face), knife tips being rolled onto nerves and tendons to create that 'snapping' sensation you get when you bump your elbow into something the wrong way. It was awful, and awesome all at the same time. It's the primary reason I enjoy consensual non-consent play without safewords, because I can't make it through a scene like that without attempting to safeword out several times... and so the only way I can do it is by prenegotiating that he'll ignore me when I do.

Greatlilbabygirl -> RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men? (11/8/2016 3:16:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick quote: If I don't possess the ability to conceive, I'm not submissive. That is not what she said. What you are apparently missing here is the fact that your ability to conceive has no bearing on your basic biological function as a female human being. The basic biological function of a male is to impregnate a female and so produce offspring and the basic biological function of a female is to be impregnated and thus produce offspring. The biological function of any animal (or plant for that matter) is to produce offspring. This basic design/function is in no way altered by any particular person/animal/plant's fertility or lack thereof. Her argument really had very little to do with conception, but was rather based on the manner of conception. See, her argument was that since a human female has to "receive" sperm from a male, that somehow makes her inherently submissive. A similarly inane argument could be made that since it is the female that receives the sperm, the male is inherently submissive as he must give/surrender his sperm to her. It is quite clear that you, and others, have totally misunderstood her asinine argument. After she opens and receives his seed, she surrenders her body for the next 9 months to support the growth of the human being inside of her and then she surrenders again to the process of birthing the baby where she has to open up completely to allow the baby's passage out. Those are the most obvious biological functions of surrender which a woman experiences in which females (not males) were uniquely designed for. I take it from all the bullshit you're spewing that you do not have any kids. Where is my flyswatter? Answer the question? Do you actually have any kids? Do you actually understand the strength, dominance, and control motherhood (effective motherhood) requires for the development of strong healthy children? Do you? Or do you just make shit up based on the limited knowledge you gleaned from high school biology? Yes... i have 2 grown children. They are both doing great. ... and now... fuck off. Oooooh, so Dominant.

Greatlilbabygirl -> RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men? (11/8/2016 3:18:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Awareness quote: ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl So do you understand how DOMINANT a woman has to be to bear children? How take charge my daily life must be over others to get shit done for and because of my kids? You have no fucking clue how dominant a WOMAN must be to have and raise children. Submission means shit all when you have to grow and raise a child. Get outta hear with that noise. Strong healthy children require a father. The children of single mothers have significantly increased risks of social, emotional or psychological problems. It has been shown two parents is better, but the gender of those parents not so much.

tamaka -> RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men? (11/8/2016 3:20:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Danemora Care about them how? And Im asking because Im honestly interested in what you have to say. Yes. I want them to be their best self. And it literally hurts me hearing them try to justify their weakness. And i am concerned not only for individuals but overall society as well. As Awareness said much better than me, and as I was trying to say earlier in this thread... if the shit hits the fan and a society with strong men come up against our nation and we have mostly weak men... we are all screwed. Including our children and our grandchildren. The freedom that real strong men fought and died for will be taken away, and we will become the slaves of those more powerful than us.

Greatlilbabygirl -> RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men? (11/8/2016 3:26:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: Danemora Care about them how? And Im asking because Im honestly interested in what you have to say. Yes. I want them to be their best self. And it literally hurts me hearing them try to justify their weakness. And i am concerned not only for individuals but overall society as well. As Awareness said much better than me, and as I was trying to say earlier in this thread... if the shit hits the fan and a society with strong men come up against our nation and we have mostly weak men... we are all screwed. Including our children and our grandchildren. The freedom that real strong men fought and died for will be taken away, and we will become the slaves of those more powerful than us. Being submissive to a woman or another man does not make a man weak. That's what you are failing to grasp. Submission to women or femininity doesn't mean a man can't and won't fight to the death for his home and country. How you are managing to conflate the two is mental gymnastics. It's ultimately balderdash. You instinctually recoil at the idea of a submissive man, ok, your right. I feel the same way ultimately if I'm ask to Domme a guy I can't do it. But them as individuals, as potential protectors, I don't doubt their strength just because personally I can't take on a Domme role in the bdsm sense. You are taking your own personal bias and trying to justify it under this disingenuous cloak of concern for society. It's laughable. Tl;Dr submissive mean aren't weak anymore than submissive women are.

tamaka -> RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men? (11/8/2016 3:33:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: Danemora Care about them how? And Im asking because Im honestly interested in what you have to say. Yes. I want them to be their best self. And it literally hurts me hearing them try to justify their weakness. And i am concerned not only for individuals but overall society as well. As Awareness said much better than me, and as I was trying to say earlier in this thread... if the shit hits the fan and a society with strong men come up against our nation and we have mostly weak men... we are all screwed. Including our children and our grandchildren. The freedom that real strong men fought and died for will be taken away, and we will become the slaves of those more powerful than us. Being submissive to a woman or another man does not make a man weak. That's what you are failing to grasp. Submission to women or femininity doesn't mean a man can't and won't fight to the death for his home and country. How you are managing to conflate the two is mental gymnastics. It's ultimately balderdash. You instinctually recoil at the idea of a submissive man, ok, your right. I feel the same way ultimately if I'm ask to Domme a guy I can't do it. But them as individuals, as potential protectors, I don't doubt their strength just because personally I can't take on a Domme role in the bdsm sense. You are taking your own personal bias and trying to justify it under this disingenuous cloak of concern for society. It's laughable. Tl;Dr submissive mean aren't weak anymore than submissive women are. Yes they are. Weak... and pathetic. Go tend to your children and domme that husband of yours. You spend a lot of time here for someone with so many back- breaking responsibilities. Are you needing an escape?

Greatlilbabygirl -> RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men? (11/8/2016 3:39:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: Danemora Care about them how? And Im asking because Im honestly interested in what you have to say. Yes. I want them to be their best self. And it literally hurts me hearing them try to justify their weakness. And i am concerned not only for individuals but overall society as well. As Awareness said much better than me, and as I was trying to say earlier in this thread... if the shit hits the fan and a society with strong men come up against our nation and we have mostly weak men... we are all screwed. Including our children and our grandchildren. The freedom that real strong men fought and died for will be taken away, and we will become the slaves of those more powerful than us. Being submissive to a woman or another man does not make a man weak. That's what you are failing to grasp. Submission to women or femininity doesn't mean a man can't and won't fight to the death for his home and country. How you are managing to conflate the two is mental gymnastics. It's ultimately balderdash. You instinctually recoil at the idea of a submissive man, ok, your right. I feel the same way ultimately if I'm ask to Domme a guy I can't do it. But them as individuals, as potential protectors, I don't doubt their strength just because personally I can't take on a Domme role in the bdsm sense. You are taking your own personal bias and trying to justify it under this disingenuous cloak of concern for society. It's laughable. Tl;Dr submissive mean aren't weak anymore than submissive women are. Yes they are. Weak... and pathetic. Go tend to your children and domme that husband of yours. You spend a lot of time here for someone with so many back- breaking responsibilities. Are you needing an escape? And there it is, you can't fight the logic so you criticize me for doing exactly what you are, spending time on the Internet. I don't spend anymore time than you do. Is your Dom not giving you enough to do to please him?

ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men? (11/8/2016 3:40:56 PM)
quote: if the shit hits the fan and a society with strong men come up against our nation and we have mostly weak men... we are all screwed. Well, the problem with that idea is that those "societies with strong men" are in fact full of weak submissive men who follow the stronger ones. this is essential for those stronger men to lead, without followers willing to submit themselves to their leadership, they could not lead. The only difference with our society is that there is a degree of tolerance for those men who desire a deeper submission to women. The real problem with both your and Awareness' point of view is that it simply is not grounded in reality. There have been submissive men throughout all of history, otherwise why would the hen pecked husband be such a common trope? If all men are naturally dominant, then why are so many men shy and awkward around women (which is not a new thing either, this phenomenon has been around forever as well)? You see, an objective assessment of the way the world has actually been through history will amply demonstrate the flaw in your ideas. the simple truth of the matter is that the majority of people of both genders are submissive in nature, only too happy to follow a stronger leader. I suspect the reason you ignore this glaring fact is because it disproves your whole view of the way humanity works. And again, the presence of men who desire to submit to women threatens this mental construct of yours.

Greatlilbabygirl -> RE: Don't Women Want The Same Things As Men? (11/8/2016 3:43:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: Danemora Care about them how? And Im asking because Im honestly interested in what you have to say. Yes. I want them to be their best self. And it literally hurts me hearing them try to justify their weakness. And i am concerned not only for individuals but overall society as well. As Awareness said much better than me, and as I was trying to say earlier in this thread... if the shit hits the fan and a society with strong men come up against our nation and we have mostly weak men... we are all screwed. Including our children and our grandchildren. The freedom that real strong men fought and died for will be taken away, and we will become the slaves of those more powerful than us. Being submissive to a woman or another man does not make a man weak. That's what you are failing to grasp. Submission to women or femininity doesn't mean a man can't and won't fight to the death for his home and country. How you are managing to conflate the two is mental gymnastics. It's ultimately balderdash. You instinctually recoil at the idea of a submissive man, ok, your right. I feel the same way ultimately if I'm ask to Domme a guy I can't do it. But them as individuals, as potential protectors, I don't doubt their strength just because personally I can't take on a Domme role in the bdsm sense. You are taking your own personal bias and trying to justify it under this disingenuous cloak of concern for society. It's laughable. Tl;Dr submissive mean aren't weak anymore than submissive women are. Yes they are. Weak... and pathetic. Go tend to your children and domme that husband of yours. You spend a lot of time here for someone with so many back- breaking responsibilities. Are you needing an escape? Why are they weak? If their Domme asked them to fight for her, for their family, for their country they would. Do you not think soldiers have to submit to their command, take orders, do shit they'd rather not in order to train and fight? They can't all be commanders. But they sure as hell aren't weak. Tell a enlisted marine he's weak for following orders and going through basic, being yelled at and ordered around and not Dominating. Lol. You're hilarious. You have no clue.

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