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RE: These aren't "protests" - 11/25/2016 1:09:20 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
Too bad the democrats didn't run Bernie... eh?

And i think before you comment on the society that rejects blacks you might want to think about the fact that we elected one to our highest office... twice.

I agree that education needs a lot of work here. I think Trump picked a person who is a proponent of charter schools for Department of Education... a great step in the right direction. He wants to get rid of common core. Sounds good to me.


Having a black president doesn't get rid of racism... and no matter how Obama actually identifies, he didn't have a typical black American upbringing.

I don't know why you think the solution is to increase the number of charter schools as opposed to revamping the public school system. But I will say that if Trump took it upon himself to revamp the public education system I would be very very nervous about what he would do to it.

No but if you are a racist nation you won't elect a black man.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to heavyblinker)
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RE: These aren't "protests" - 11/25/2016 2:10:49 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

Please tell me how American workers have an equal opportunity to compete against some guy in China who will do the job for $1/hour. We freed the slaves but you seem to think slavery is fine as long as you can't see it.

I think most of what you wrote above is eloquently worded bullshit.


Maybe those same American workers shouldnt have been shopping at Walmart for years/decades if they valued their jobs so damn much... maybe they shouldnt blame the guy in China but they should blame their fellow Americans that put them out of a job in the first place.. the guy in China doesnt have a job if Americans dont buy that stuff and instead pay more to keep American workers working, but if yer fellow Americans dont give a shite about your job then blame them, not some poor schmuck in China who is just trying to survive..

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RE: These aren't "protests" - 11/25/2016 2:15:18 PM   
tamaka


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

Please tell me how American workers have an equal opportunity to compete against some guy in China who will do the job for $1/hour. We freed the slaves but you seem to think slavery is fine as long as you can't see it.

I think most of what you wrote above is eloquently worded bullshit.


Maybe those same American workers shouldnt have been shopping at Walmart for years/decades if they valued their jobs so damn much... maybe they shouldnt blame the guy in China but they should blame their fellow Americans that put them out of a job in the first place.. the guy in China doesnt have a job if Americans dont buy that stuff and instead pay more to keep American workers working, but if yer fellow Americans dont give a shite about your job then blame them, not some poor schmuck in China who is just trying to survive..


They aren't blaming the guy in China. They are blaming the corporations and government.

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RE: These aren't "protests" - 11/25/2016 3:03:59 PM   
epiphiny43


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

Please tell me how American workers have an equal opportunity to compete against some guy in China who will do the job for $1/hour. We freed the slaves but you seem to think slavery is fine as long as you can't see it.

I think most of what you wrote above is eloquently worded bullshit.


Maybe those same American workers shouldnt have been shopping at Walmart for years/decades if they valued their jobs so damn much... maybe they shouldnt blame the guy in China but they should blame their fellow Americans that put them out of a job in the first place.. the guy in China doesnt have a job if Americans dont buy that stuff and instead pay more to keep American workers working, but if yer fellow Americans dont give a shite about your job then blame them, not some poor schmuck in China who is just trying to survive..

More of the BullShit from those running factories and Wall Street to deflect from the actual issues. Nice buy in to the spin.
Workers don't 'choose' to buy from Walmart. Like Market Forces work everywhere, they have to. Real Estate speculators and population growth alone keep pressing the cost of housing up. Food sure isn't getting cheaper. Working class wages have been losing against Cost Of Living indexes since the 50s. The consumer culture feeds this with unabated pressure to consume more, which is exactly why the now semi-affluent Chinese worker who finally can afford a iPhone and maybe a car, is being replaced by south Asian and East African workers. As long as nations allow the owners to profit by relocating where ever they find more profit, there will be structural displacement and large scale unemployment. Since the major corporations have very successfully prevented any real sharing costs of infrastructure or environmental burdens of either production or long distance transportation of raw materials or finished goods, the Public eats the pollution, and pays to cleanup. (Coastal shipping turns out to be one of the largest air polluters of near shore residential and urban areas. Long distance overseas movement is more worldwide) Only Trump plans to gut the EPA and let US cities smog up to China levels (Current estimates are China loses nearly 1/4 of it's urban worker output to air pollution effects on health, both short term disease and early death.) Talk about the working class shooting themselves in the feet this election!
Nice report on PBS today on the new GM plant in a border state. Only Some cars now make sense to build in the US, (Cadillac SUVs in this case) and to get the plant, the Union had to agree to halve initial starting salaries for workers. Health Care is pushed to ACA, Old style Retirement is Gone, you get a little help with a 401K from GM. Meaning the Good Jobs are Really gone,, and most won't be coming back, no matter what the Eternal Tan Person promises.
More problematic is the burgeoning Robot Manufacturing Revolution now shifting gears to Second. When construction robots replace most tradesmen in home and business construction, the real pinch on workers will start. Factory work you can raise a family on is largely a memory now and fading fast. Nobody looking for a job, or easy answers from bullshitting politicians, wants to look at the reality of our Post-Industrial Society, and it's obvious implications for past concepts of Work, wages, medical care, Social Safety Net and a host of other issues. Fewer good jobs, for only increasingly well educated workers, with shorter remunerative careers, in Any field are our future. If the top of the food chain gets to keep all the profit and screw the rest, we have only the French Revolution to look forward to, or 1984, if our rulers get serious fast enough to keep control.
Damn! Why didn't HRC bring Bernie in as VP candidate? The election would have been a walkover. And we'd have a glimmer of a hope of surviving the 21st Century as a functional society. Good luck kids! I'm out of here before the shit Really hits the fan. It's pretty obvious why Depression is fast becoming the worst medical issue and soon the leading real cause of death. Between the greedy and the dupes buying the Right Wing myths, not much hope is left.

(in reply to tj444)
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RE: These aren't "protests" - 11/25/2016 8:15:27 PM   
heavyblinker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
So no matter what he does you will oppose it.


So no matter what anyone says, you'll just set up another straw man to knock down.

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RE: These aren't "protests" - 11/25/2016 8:16:46 PM   
vincentML


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Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

More problematic is the burgeoning Robot Manufacturing Revolution now shifting gears to Second. When construction robots replace most tradesmen in home and business construction, the real pinch on workers will start. Factory work you can raise a family on is largely a memory now and fading fast. Nobody looking for a job, or easy answers from bullshitting politicians, wants to look at the reality of our Post-Industrial Society, and it's obvious implications for past concepts of Work, wages, medical care, Social Safety Net and a host of other issues. Fewer good jobs, for only increasingly well educated workers, with shorter remunerative careers, in Any field are our future.

Beyond increasing manufacturing production by robots there will also be AI algorithms to perform routine tasks that are now performed in Law, Medicine, Accounting, and various fields of engineering. So, diminishing numbers of white collar jobs as well. I wonder if teachers will be needed in the future.

One additional eye-opener . . . 3D printing has been successfully used to construct buildings in China and in Scandinavia. Kiss your hammer and saw goodbye. Brick masons need not apply.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 11/25/2016 8:21:24 PM >


_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: These aren't "protests" - 11/25/2016 8:26:37 PM   
vincentML


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Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
Too bad the democrats didn't run Bernie... eh?

And i think before you comment on the society that rejects blacks you might want to think about the fact that we elected one to our highest office... twice.

I agree that education needs a lot of work here. I think Trump picked a person who is a proponent of charter schools for Department of Education... a great step in the right direction. He wants to get rid of common core. Sounds good to me.


Having a black president doesn't get rid of racism... and no matter how Obama actually identifies, he didn't have a typical black American upbringing.

I don't know why you think the solution is to increase the number of charter schools as opposed to revamping the public school system. But I will say that if Trump took it upon himself to revamp the public education system I would be very very nervous about what he would do to it.

No but if you are a racist nation you won't elect a black man.

But a Youuuuuuuge portion of malcontents will try to delegitimize him.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 287
RE: These aren't "protests" - 11/25/2016 8:49:54 PM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
They aren't blaming the guy in China. They are blaming the corporations and government.


It's not just corporations who are buying from China... it's also smaller and online businesses.

China was destined to be the manufacturing capital of the world the moment they decided to wholly embrace state capitalism. The entire nation was being run by economists starting around the beginning of the 21st century, and nothing else was considered more important-- environmental regulations, working conditions, etc... were completely ignored for over a decade. It has nothing to do with the US signing special trade agreements or actually putting forth policies to PROMOTE trade with China... the only thing they didn't do was effectively punish China for simply meeting consumer demand in a cost-effective if not entirely humane or sustainable manner.

You can't blame businesses for doing what businesses are supposed to do. Businesses don't exist to create jobs, they exist to make money. This is why trickle down doesn't work.

If you think that adapting is out of the question and are really desperate to blame something, blame capitalism as a whole.

(in reply to tamaka)
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RE: These aren't "protests" - 11/25/2016 8:53:30 PM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
No but if you are a racist nation you won't elect a black man.


So I guess because some people voted for a half-black guy twice, it means everyone in the entire country has been redeemed and nothing they do or say should ever be considered racist ever again.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 289
RE: These aren't "protests" - 11/25/2016 8:53:33 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
So no matter what he does you will oppose it.


So no matter what anyone says, you'll just set up another straw man to knock down.

You don't want charter schools and while you want public schools revamped you don't want Trump to do it, what am I supposed to think?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 290
RE: These aren't "protests" - 11/25/2016 8:55:11 PM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
You don't want charter schools and while you want public schools revamped you don't want Trump to do it, what am I supposed to think?


You should think that a man who openly admits he doesn't have enough patience to read a single book has no business messing around with anyone's education.

(in reply to BamaD)
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RE: These aren't "protests" - 11/25/2016 8:56:31 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
No but if you are a racist nation you won't elect a black man.


So I guess because some people voted for a half-black guy twice, it means everyone in the entire country has been redeemed and nothing they do or say should ever be considered racist ever again.

There will be racists in any society, even in the great white north.
What do you say about the people who have only voted for a white man if there are no blacks running for the office?
Do you understand that a nation that has some racists in it is not at all the same as a racist nation?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 292
RE: These aren't "protests" - 11/25/2016 9:07:12 PM   
tamaka


Posts: 5079
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
You don't want charter schools and while you want public schools revamped you don't want Trump to do it, what am I supposed to think?


You should think that a man who openly admits he doesn't have enough patience to read a single book has no business messing around with anyone's education.


I doubt he'll be heavily involved and i guess if he has the patience to write a best seller he can probably read one if he wants to.

(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 293
RE: These aren't "protests" - 11/25/2016 9:24:01 PM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
I doubt he'll be heavily involved and i guess if he has the patience to write a best seller he can probably read one if he wants to.


Except he didn't write it.
This guy (who is mortally terrified of him and thinks he's a complete fucking idiot) wrote it:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1310268/The-Art-Deal-author-speaks-against-Trump.html

Choice quotes:

'Unable to do interviews longer than 10 or 15 minutes.'
'2 year old grandson has a longer attention span.'

and from a longer article in the New Yorker, my personal favorite:

'if it were to be written today it would be very different and titled The Sociopath'

If Trump isn't going to do it, then it will fall to people who have zero interest in doing it to do it.
Which I suppose is a good thing, except for the fact that it will simply remain shitty.

< Message edited by heavyblinker -- 11/25/2016 9:27:14 PM >

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RE: These aren't "protests" - 11/25/2016 9:39:15 PM   
tamaka


Posts: 5079
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
I doubt he'll be heavily involved and i guess if he has the patience to write a best seller he can probably read one if he wants to.


Except he didn't write it.
This guy (who is mortally terrified of him and thinks he's a complete fucking idiot) wrote it:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1310268/The-Art-Deal-author-speaks-against-Trump.html

Choice quotes:

'Unable to do interviews longer than 10 or 15 minutes.'
'2 year old grandson has a longer attention span.'

and from a longer article in the New Yorker, my personal favorite:

'if it were to be written today it would be very different and titled The Sociopath'

If Trump isn't going to do it, then it will fall to people who have zero interest in doing it to do it.
Which I suppose is a good thing, except for the fact that it will simply remain shitty.


How did it get better in the last 8 years?


(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 295
RE: These aren't "protests" - 11/25/2016 9:40:01 PM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
How did it get better in the last 8 years?


Did I say it got better?

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RE: These aren't "protests" - 11/25/2016 9:41:14 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
You don't want charter schools and while you want public schools revamped you don't want Trump to do it, what am I supposed to think?


You should think that a man who openly admits he doesn't have enough patience to read a single book has no business messing around with anyone's education.

So he got a professional to do it.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 297
RE: These aren't "protests" - 11/25/2016 9:42:04 PM   
LordHawke


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Joined: 1/2/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
Too bad the democrats didn't run Bernie... eh?

And i think before you comment on the society that rejects blacks you might want to think about the fact that we elected one to our highest office... twice.

I agree that education needs a lot of work here. I think Trump picked a person who is a proponent of charter schools for Department of Education... a great step in the right direction. He wants to get rid of common core. Sounds good to me.


Having a black president doesn't get rid of racism... and no matter how Obama actually identifies, he didn't have a typical black American upbringing.

I don't know why you think the solution is to increase the number of charter schools as opposed to revamping the public school system. But I will say that if Trump took it upon himself to revamp the public education system I would be very very nervous about what he would do to it.

No but if you are a racist nation you won't elect a black man.

so what youre saying is if Obama had been defeated, that would prove, in and of itself, that America is racist....and you wonder why people vote R

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Profile   Post #: 298
RE: These aren't "protests" - 11/25/2016 9:49:10 PM   
tamaka


Posts: 5079
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
How did it get better in the last 8 years?


Did I say it got better?


No. : )

Trump might not be perfect but i believe he genuinely cares and wants to make things better for everyone. He doesn't have to do it all himself.

(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 299
RE: These aren't "protests" - 11/25/2016 9:50:40 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LordHawke


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
Too bad the democrats didn't run Bernie... eh?

And i think before you comment on the society that rejects blacks you might want to think about the fact that we elected one to our highest office... twice.

I agree that education needs a lot of work here. I think Trump picked a person who is a proponent of charter schools for Department of Education... a great step in the right direction. He wants to get rid of common core. Sounds good to me.


Having a black president doesn't get rid of racism... and no matter how Obama actually identifies, he didn't have a typical black American upbringing.

I don't know why you think the solution is to increase the number of charter schools as opposed to revamping the public school system. But I will say that if Trump took it upon himself to revamp the public education system I would be very very nervous about what he would do to it.

No but if you are a racist nation you won't elect a black man.

so what youre saying is if Obama had been defeated, that would prove, in and of itself, that America is racist....and you wonder why people vote R

Hardly, there are many reasons he could have been defeated, I voted against him both times because I disagreed with his polices. However if a huge portion of a nation is racist, say even 25% he could not have been elected because that % of the electorate would not only voted against him but would have been highly represented among the voters, much like the people who voted for him simply because he was black. The argument could be better made that he was elected by racists.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to LordHawke)
Profile   Post #: 300
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