quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
There is a threshold where an advantage can become a disadvantage... like when one particular country owns 30% of our foreign debt.

Flip of the coin whether we are witnessing wilful ignorance here or just blind stupidity.

I already posted this, you read it, and then you say something idiotic as above:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_of_the_United_States

On November 7, 2016, debt held by the public was $14.3 trillion or about 76% of the previous 12 months of GDP.[5][6][7][8] Intragovernmental holdings stood at $5.4 trillion, giving a combined total gross national debt of $19.8 trillion or about 106% of the previous 12 months of GDP.[7] $6.2 trillion or approximately 45% of the debt held by the public was owned by foreign investors, the largest of which were China and Japan at about $1.25 trillion for China and $1.15 trillion for Japan as of May 2016.[9]

Doing the math; China holds 20.2% of foreign held public debt, Japan- 18.6%.

Which means that China holds - 8.7% - of US public debt, Japan- 8.0%.

Does anyone know if it ever actually hit 30% in the past?
I've heard that it did but it's so hard to get reliable information.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
The U.S. debt to China is $1.157 trillion, as of September 2016. That's 30 percent of the $3.901 trillion in Treasury bills, notes, and bonds held by foreign countries. The rest of the $19.5 trillion debt is owned by either the American people or by the U.S. government itself. For more, see Who Owns the U.S. National Debt?

China holds less U.S. debt than the record $1.317 trillion it held in November 2013

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
The U.S. debt to China is $1.157 trillion, as of September 2016. That's 30 percent of the $3.901 trillion in Treasury bills, notes, and bonds held by foreign countries. The rest of the $19.5 trillion debt is owned by either the American people or by the U.S. government itself. For more, see Who Owns the U.S. National Debt?

China holds less U.S. debt than the record $1.317 trillion it held in November 2013

http://ticdata.treasury.gov/Publish/mfh.txt

Your $1.157 trillion figure is right, but the grand total is actually $6154.7 trillion (see where it says 'Grand Total'?).
So not 30%.

And I see you haven't actually answered why you think this is such a terrible thing. If they crashed the dollar it would be bad, but the only reason they would have to do that is if somebody (say, a wild card American president) slapped a huge tariff on them and ignited a trade war or something.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
The U.S. debt to China is $1.157 trillion, as of September 2016. That's 30 percent of the $3.901 trillion in Treasury bills, notes, and bonds held by foreign countries. The rest of the $19.5 trillion debt is owned by either the American people or by the U.S. government itself. For more, see Who Owns the U.S. National Debt?

China holds less U.S. debt than the record $1.317 trillion it held in November 2013

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker
And I see you haven't actually answered why you think this is such a terrible thing. If they crashed the dollar it would be bad, but the only reason they would have to do that is if somebody (say, a wild card American president) slapped a huge tariff on them and ignited a trade war or something.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire

Always take the debt figure - no matter the country x 3-5. will give you true debt/actual liabilities....so the UK 1.6 trillion in reality 5-10 trillion.

Doing the math; China holds 20.2% of foreign held public debt, Japan- 18.6%.

Which means that China holds - 8.7% - of US public debt, Japan- 8.0%

Lower than I thought..are you sure its that low let me look
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/moneymatters/ss/How-Much-US-Debt-Does-China-Own.htm
fair enough.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
The U.S. debt to China is $1.157 trillion, as of September 2016. That's 30 percent of the $3.901 trillion in Treasury bills, notes, and bonds held by foreign countries. The rest of the $19.5 trillion debt is owned by either the American people or by the U.S. government itself. For more, see Who Owns the U.S. National Debt?

China holds less U.S. debt than the record $1.317 trillion it held in November 2013

http://ticdata.treasury.gov/Publish/mfh.txt

Your $1.157 trillion figure is right, but the grand total is actually $6154.7 trillion (see where it says 'Grand Total'?).
So not 30%.

And I see you haven't actually answered why you think this is such a terrible thing. If they crashed the dollar it would be bad, but the only reason they would have to do that is if somebody (say, a wild card American president) slapped a huge tariff on them and ignited a trade war or something.

Thanks for answering your own question.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker
And I see you haven't actually answered why you think this is such a terrible thing. If they crashed the dollar it would be bad, but the only reason they would have to do that is if somebody (say, a wild card American president) slapped a huge tariff on them and ignited a trade war or something.

Thing is, it's been pointed out everywhere by people well knowledgeable on the subject that China would never go further than making noise about such an action because the dollar would drop precipitously, which would affect economies worldwide, including China's, i.e. it would be cutting off their nose to spite their face. Another guard against it, as if needed, is that almost every country able to (along with the Fed!) would buy the bonds quickly so that there wouldn't be time enough on the open market to lower the price (or the dollar) appreciably.

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
The U.S. debt to China is $1.157 trillion, as of September 2016. That's 30 percent of the $3.901 trillion in Treasury bills, notes, and bonds held by foreign countries. The rest of the $19.5 trillion debt is owned by either the American people or by the U.S. government itself. For more, see Who Owns the U.S. National Debt?

China holds less U.S. debt than the record $1.317 trillion it held in November 2013

http://ticdata.treasury.gov/Publish/mfh.txt

Your $1.157 trillion figure is right, but the grand total is actually $6154.7 trillion (see where it says 'Grand Total'?).
So not 30%.

And I see you haven't actually answered why you think this is such a terrible thing. If they crashed the dollar it would be bad, but the only reason they would have to do that is if somebody (say, a wild card American president) slapped a huge tariff on them and ignited a trade war or something.

Thanks for answering your own question.

Except they wouldn't do it because it would hurt their own economy as well, which I explained earlier.

It would only occur as the death blow in an absolutely MASSIVE and absurdly pointless trade war that would also probably involve a real war at some point as well. It's seriously the economic equivalent of a nuclear holocaust, and China has absolutely no reason to do it.

If that's seriously your argument, you need to stop reading so many conspiracy sites and stop seeing China as some sort of irrational, dangerously crazy foreign power. China has problems for sure but hurting itself just to hurt the US without any provocation or valid reason isn't logical on any level.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

Putting oneself at the mercy of someone else ... having to worry about provoking them in some way or that they might find a reason... is not operating from a position of strength and power.

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

Putting oneself at the mercy of someone else ... having to worry about provoking them in some way or that they might find a reason... is not operating from a position of strength and power.

You haven't been paying attention at all, have you?

Okay, so I guess after Trump gets back all the debt from China without causing a crash, he can also take their nuclear weapons away. Russia too.

It's the only way to get the power back and make America great again.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
What a fucking nightmare... geeze.

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
What a fucking nightmare... geeze.

It's so strange that the people who are nostalgic for when America was great seem to forget that during that time people used to wake up every day and try not to think about how human civilization could come to an end at any moment. And THAT timeframe was actually preceded by a time when people didn't even KNOW that human civilization could have ended at any moment.

This is much better.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
Putting oneself at the mercy of someone else ... having to worry about provoking them in some way or that they might find a reason... is not operating from a position of strength and power.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
That's strange. Could this be the difference in the numbers?

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire
Lower than I thought..are you sure its that low let me look
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/moneymatters/ss/How-Much-US-Debt-Does-China-Own.htm
fair enough.

Your link says the same as mine is saying... China owns 30%

Foreign governments hold about 46% of all U.S. debt held by the public, more than $4.5 trillion. According to the Treasury, the largest foreign holder of U.S. debt is China, which owns more than $1.24 trillion in bills, notes, and bonds or about 30% of the over $4 trillion in Treasury bills, notes, and bonds held by foreign countries.