RE: Question about Guidance and Domination (Full Version)

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gnathic -> RE: Question about Guidance and Domination (12/3/2016 11:41:17 AM)

Likewise. 100%.

This was made starkingly clear during that last month, when I got accepted onto a competitive research project. This was a big thing for me, and whereas I was able to share my enthusiasm and happiness at this opportunity with my friends/family, he didn't try to delve at all into it. As the next couple of weeks progressed, he was not interested in hearing about the research. I would bring it up or try to talk about how interesting I found it, and he would look back at me wide-eyed. And yet, I knew he was interested in science, because he was perfectly happy to explain science topics in areas that he knew I was completely naive about. But me talk to him about something I'm working on and that he doesn't know about? Hell to the no.



WickedsDesire -> RE: Question about Guidance and Domination (12/3/2016 12:10:08 PM)

cant we just hurl these socks into a volcano?

there is no rhyme or reason save all that they have ever been unlike The Rime of the Ancient Mariner



kiwisub22 -> RE: Question about Guidance and Domination (12/3/2016 12:20:15 PM)

My Sir was tickled pink with all of me - physically, intellectually, emotionally, sexually - well you get the idea. He was supportive of my job, and my relationship with my adult kids. He liked the fact that I had a demanding job that required some intelligence and common sense, and was quite happy to "show me off" to the local community.

Like you DesFIP, I couldn't be with someone who was threatened by any part of me, because I am a real person, and to take just part of me isn't an option.




gnathic -> RE: Question about Guidance and Domination (12/3/2016 12:27:23 PM)

I'm glad to hear that your experience was a good one :) That's certainly what I want for my own.

I found it frustrating. I've never been with someone before that seemed threatened by me. In previous relationships - romantic or even just casual - I was able to share all of who I am. Even if they weren't interested in the same things as me, they at least seemed to enjoy my own passions and were happy to speak about them with me (as I was regarding their own interests). I couldn't be with someone like that either. Once a cluster of the behaviours had formed and they were no longer isolated incidents, I called it off within just a few days (wanted to see if I calmed down before then - but I didn't).



ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Question about Guidance and Domination (12/3/2016 12:28:36 PM)

quote:

These achievements are irrelevant to me so far as being my submissive is concerned.

Which attitude would render you irrelevant as my dominant, or even as a friend.



ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Question about Guidance and Domination (12/3/2016 12:32:28 PM)

To me, this stuff is really simple. Figure out what you 1) need, 2) want, and 3) will put up with in a relationship, and then find somebody who is OK with those things.



heavyblinker -> RE: Question about Guidance and Domination (12/3/2016 12:35:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gnathic

So yes, it isn't relevant to me "as a sub"... but I'm more than a sub, I am a person. So yes, I do expect to be able to talk about things going on in my life. I'm a person, not just something to have kinky, sexy play with. To be clear: I am *not* talking about being celebrated. I would find that just as weird if he did celebrate me for that, just as much as I find it weird that he would *refuse* to see me as confident and capable.


I'm not completely sure if I can add much to this discussion, but what you're saying struck a chord with me.

My take is that relationships are idiosyncratic and there are no set rules that any vanilla or kink-based relationship must follow...and people can't really come together simply by trying to find someone who meets their expectations either.

So to address your first question from my really inexperienced point of view-- not every dominant expects the same thing from every sub and I'm sure you can find someone who suits your needs if you just keep looking, keep an open mind and trust your intuition. Relationships are just relationships... the best ones tend to take you by surprise in some way.

There must be someone out there who is willing to listen to you and devise a way to dominate you that doesn't involve shutting you down, treating you like a child or simply sidestepping anything that seems to pose a threat to his ego/dominance/whatever.
Even in vanilla relationships, even in vanilla friendships, even in random conversations with people you'll never see again, this is important.



gnathic -> RE: Question about Guidance and Domination (12/3/2016 12:39:58 PM)

Check, I agree.

My main question though that I posed at the very start of this thread though is:

How do I approach this topic with a potential new Dom/me? How do I bring up my preferences, and best explain that I strongly dislike guidance, and why?

I suppose my concern is that I don't want to be the kind of sub that goes on and on about why it didn't work with my previous Dom. But I *do* want to give enough information to sufficiently describe what exactly I mean. Communication seemed to be the downfall of the previous D/s dynamic, and I don't want it to be the downfall of my next one.



gnathic -> RE: Question about Guidance and Domination (12/3/2016 12:46:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

quote:

ORIGINAL: gnathic

So yes, it isn't relevant to me "as a sub"... but I'm more than a sub, I am a person. So yes, I do expect to be able to talk about things going on in my life. I'm a person, not just something to have kinky, sexy play with. To be clear: I am *not* talking about being celebrated. I would find that just as weird if he did celebrate me for that, just as much as I find it weird that he would *refuse* to see me as confident and capable.


I'm not completely sure if I can add much to this discussion, but what you're saying struck a chord with me.

My take is that relationships are idiosyncratic and there are no set rules that any vanilla or kink-based relationship must follow...and people can't really come together simply by trying to find someone who meets their expectations either.

So to address your first question from my really inexperienced point of view-- not every dominant expects the same thing from every sub and I'm sure you can find someone who suits your needs if you just keep looking, keep an open mind and trust your intuition. Relationships are just relationships... the best ones tend to take you by surprise in some way.

There must be someone out there who is willing to listen to you and devise a way to dominate you that doesn't involve shutting you down, treating you like a child or simply sidestepping anything that seems to pose a threat to his ego/dominance/whatever.
Even in vanilla relationships, even in vanilla friendships, even in random conversations with people you'll never see again, this is important.


Thank you for your comment :) I hope it hasn't struck a chord in terms of you having experienced a similar thing?

I appreciate that. I think so too. I think it's just been a little tricky not getting wound up about it (as OTT as that may sound), just because he was a nice guy besides all this (he always made me feel very safe, we broke it off very amicably, and I know he does genuinely strive to be a good person). So I suppose this almost makes me feel like I can't dislike him for having treated me (IMO) essentially as an inferior without him realising. But part of me still feels annoyed that he would think this was OK. Part of me feels like "I hope you go on to be happy and I wish good things for you" and the other part of me thinks "You complete dick. Why would you treat me like that?"

Perhaps I should have got a bit angry at him when we spoke about it, as at least I would have released it. Haha.



Alecta -> RE: Question about Guidance and Domination (12/3/2016 12:51:55 PM)

OP, remember that I don't know you, and I do not know enough details about your relationship and dynamic to this man. Don't take anything I suggest too personally. If you feel it does not apply to you, don't worry about it. I certainly don't. Most people are defensive about being told something because on a critical level, they agree but do not want to face it. You may not be "most people". But what you should take away from this suggestion is "maybe that's why they thought this about me".

I'm quoting myself to emphasize this point:

quote:

That said, "normal you" can and should absolutely be proud of your achievements if you have earned them, no matter what direction they are in, and him as your friend and life partner should be happy for you too.


Holding an MBA doesn't speak at all towards whether or not you would be good at cooking, for example. So in the very specific context of you as a cook, it means nothing. If applied to a wider context of a multi-faceted all-encompassing relationship, such as a life partner or a friend, then there presumedly would be some context in which it is relevant and certainly something would be lacking if such a context did not exist. I hope that clarified, Des, Dizzy.

But to you, OP, this brings up a very important point for consideration: defining "sub you" and "normal you" for the Dom and clearly communicating the expectations of both. For example, you mention being acknowledged as an equal, but that to me is clearly a "normal you" expectation and not a "sub you" expectation (since expecting to be equal negates the fundamental basis of a "sub you"). Everyone has a different preference of the "normal/sub" (or even "normal/Dom") mix. Universally, it is important in a D/s romantic relationship to be able to differentiate when it is appropriate to address each side and when which side is being addressed. If telling you to shut up and strip down is not ok when addressing "normal you" but perfectly appropriate in addressing "sub you", the Dom needs to know there is the difference, and you both need to be able to tell when he's addressing which of you. I do get the strong sense from the more you say specifically about the relationship that there was inadequate groundwork from the start. There appears to be a disconnect between what he thought you wanted, and what you wanted, which is a shame. From your description it seems as though he was unaware of your desire for him to engage "normal you", and engaged you only as "sub you" and "Dom him". Compartmentalisation.

Most people mess up in relationships (of any type) because they don't realise it's happening. Most men are naturally more inclined to compartmentalise their social connections and relationships than women. This is why in D/s women generally want to be engaged and seen as themselves first, then whatever else after, whereas most men jump in as their D/s persona and only ever expect to deal with you through that. Being aware that most people do this can help you navigate and negotiate more effectively to ensure that you're all on the same page. It can also be helpful in conflict resolution: "are we having a problem specifically because of X in the case of A, or does it go beyond that?" (because sometimes they just don't like that lampshade of yours and it isn't about not wanting you to put personal touches on their place, and sometimes, it is.)



Kaliko -> RE: Question about Guidance and Domination (12/3/2016 1:10:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gnathic

How do I approach this topic with a potential new Dom/me? How do I bring up my preferences, and best explain that I strongly dislike guidance, and why?




Could you just phrase it simply? Something like you enjoy behaving in a way that pleases him, but you draw the line at modifying anything more than outward behavior?


...for the record, I am not in favor of a submissive drawing a line, but I suppose we're talking about you here, not me. :)




gnathic -> RE: Question about Guidance and Domination (12/3/2016 1:15:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alecta

OP, remember that I don't know you, and I do not know enough details about your relationship and dynamic to this man. Don't take anything I suggest too personally. If you feel it does not apply to you, don't worry about it. I certainly don't. Most people are defensive about being told something because on a critical level, they agree but do not want to face it. You may not be "most people". But what you should take away from this suggestion is "maybe that's why they thought this about me".

I'm quoting myself to emphasize this point:

quote:

That said, "normal you" can and should absolutely be proud of your achievements if you have earned them, no matter what direction they are in, and him as your friend and life partner should be happy for you too.


Holding an MBA doesn't speak at all towards whether or not you would be good at cooking, for example. So in the very specific context of you as a cook, it means nothing. If applied to a wider context of a multi-faceted all-encompassing relationship, such as a life partner or a friend, then there presumedly would be some context in which it is relevant and certainly something would be lacking if such a context did not exist. I hope that clarified, Des, Dizzy.

But to you, OP, this brings up a very important point for consideration: defining "sub you" and "normal you" for the Dom and clearly communicating the expectations of both. For example, you mention being acknowledged as an equal, but that to me is clearly a "normal you" expectation and not a "sub you" expectation (since expecting to be equal negates the fundamental basis of a "sub you"). Everyone has a different preference of the "normal/sub" (or even "normal/Dom") mix. Universally, it is important in a D/s romantic relationship to be able to differentiate when it is appropriate to address each side and when which side is being addressed. If telling you to shut up and strip down is not ok when addressing "normal you" but perfectly appropriate in addressing "sub you", the Dom needs to know there is the difference, and you both need to be able to tell when he's addressing which of you. I do get the strong sense from the more you say specifically about the relationship that there was inadequate groundwork from the start. There appears to be a disconnect between what he thought you wanted, and what you wanted, which is a shame. From your description it seems as though he was unaware of your desire for him to engage "normal you", and engaged you only as "sub you" and "Dom him". Compartmentalisation.

Most people mess up in relationships (of any type) because they don't realise it's happening. Most men are naturally more inclined to compartmentalise their social connections and relationships than women. This is why in D/s women generally want to be engaged and seen as themselves first, then whatever else after, whereas most men jump in as their D/s persona and only ever expect to deal with you through that. Being aware that most people do this can help you navigate and negotiate more effectively to ensure that you're all on the same page. It can also be helpful in conflict resolution: "are we having a problem specifically because of X in the case of A, or does it go beyond that?" (because sometimes they just don't like that lampshade of yours and it isn't about not wanting you to put personal touches on their place, and sometimes, it is.)



Thank you, I am appreciating your input and finding it helpful :)

I see what you mean. He did eventually say that he does view me as confident, but only after I'd obviously kicked up about it lol, and only after - like the 'preference for older men' thing - I had repeatedly corrected him on that. It does surprise me that he could genuinely have perceived me as lacking confidence though (when I spoke to my friends about all of this after I broke it off, they said it surprised them that I could be seen as that, too). I personally think that he didn't really perceive me as such, I think it was more that he desired to take the role of "wise, older man" and have conversations/monologues with me that placed him in that role. Hence the fact he would avoid conversations where I'd be telling him things he didn't know (e.g. my research), would advise me on things (e.g. confidence - I have kept my job down since I was 14 years old so don't need advice on that, and I'm also doing a degree and research so I don't need help on this area either. My relationships with family are great, as are my relationships with all my friends. I think he wanted to be able to advise me on *something* and this was something that was simply easy to do, as advising about a personality trait is easier than advising about areas of life that are going well and in areas that he doesn't even have experience in anyway. Advisng on something as arbitrary and subjective as perceived confidence is much easier to do. And ironically, I actually felt I was more confident than him, as when we both attended a FL event that we had never been to/didn't know anyone at, I settled straight in and was chatty and confident with everyone, whereas he - at times - sat looking a little shy and defensive. Not that there's anything wrong with that OFC, but then I don't think its a good idea to be lecturing the woman the next day about how to be "more confident". It just doesn't work).

I couldn't agree more on what you said about separating the "normal me" and "sub me". This was certainly something that I went into D/s not realising that I would need to be careful about, and I definitely appreciate the importance of it now. Thank you :) I think I will be explaining my position using this reasoning when it does come to a new D/s dynamic forming.



Alecta -> RE: Question about Guidance and Domination (12/3/2016 1:43:43 PM)

quote:

I think it was more that he desired to take the role of "wise, older man" and have conversations/monologues with me that placed him in that role. Hence the fact he would avoid conversations where I'd be telling him things he didn't know (e.g. my research), would advise me on things (e.g. confidence - I have kept my job down since I was 14 years old so don't need advice on that, and I'm also doing a degree and research so I don't need help on this area either. My relationships with family are great, as are my relationships with all my friends. I think he wanted to be able to advise me on *something*.


That does sound plausible.

You're welcome, I hope it helps you have better communication next time.

When I was younger and dating submissives, I employed a "collar on/off" thing, which was basically an adaptation of the "talking stick". I had a bracelet, they had their collars. When I wanted them to engage with me as "normal me" and not as their Domme, I took the bracelet off. When they wanted the same, they took their collar off. The most important rule regarding this ritual is that the other is made aware that you have taken the item off. There were other rule, but in my opinion those were specific to me and not relevant unless you're asking to have that kind of relationship with me.

The purpose of taking off the collar/bracelet was to enforce an action and visual cue to both parties that a shift in mental states is necessary, and gives both parties the chance to refocus and recenter themselves. Having to do something like makes the person doing it think about what they are about to say or do. It helped me.



gnathic -> RE: Question about Guidance and Domination (12/3/2016 2:30:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaliko

quote:

ORIGINAL: gnathic

How do I approach this topic with a potential new Dom/me? How do I bring up my preferences, and best explain that I strongly dislike guidance, and why?




Could you just phrase it simply? Something like you enjoy behaving in a way that pleases him, but you draw the line at modifying anything more than outward behavior?


...for the record, I am not in favor of a submissive drawing a line, but I suppose we're talking about you here, not me. :)




I suppose I could just say something along the lines of being open to being the kind of sub that s/he'd enjoy me to be, so long as it doesn't involve attempts to change me overall.

Just out of curiosity, are you really against a sub drawing the line? :) Have you no hard limits at all?

For me personally, I definitely have hard limits and areas of my life I don't want someone to control. I know that some submissives like to hand over all of it (within reasonable limits), but that doesn't appeal to me. I also can't hand over all of my control anyway even if I wanted, as I have a lot of responsibilities that I can't afford to mess up. Also, what about situations such as single parents, who need to be able to have enough autonomy to prioritise their children? Or other responsibilities such as jobs, prioritising academic work, or simply disliking a certain thing so much that it makes them dislike the entire dynamic, e.g. certain sex acts, or ways of being treated that remind them of a bad experience? These people are unlikely to remain in that dynamic unless some negotiation or compromise occurs. After all, for all of the "Dom has the control" stuff... If the sub is unhappy, s/he will not stay. Which is sad really, if all they needed to do to ameliorate this is was to just compromise.

I think having no limits work for a lot of people. But I think the idea that a sub shouldn't be able to draw the line at certain things paves the way for a lot of dissatisfaction and unhappiness (and dissolution of relationships) for those who *do* need to draw the line at certain things. Again, I'm not saying that everyone should draw the line... But I do think that if they want to, they should be able to without facing criticism for it. There are so many different situations out there and reasons for why people might want/need to limit a Dom/me's control over them. And a lot of people wouldn't even engage in a D/s dynamic if they weren't able to negotiate.



RedMagic1 -> RE: Question about Guidance and Domination (12/3/2016 2:49:04 PM)

FR

Was there an age gap in this relationship? It sounds that way. If you both were at the same age and accomplishment level, then he sounds like a bit of a clueless douche. But if he was older and more "mainstream successful" then there might be another side to the story.

A lot (and I mean A LOT) of women look for older men as mentors -- and I don't mean the word in a cheesy sleazy BDSM club sense. Teach me how to budget money, how to negotiate for better pay, how to hang with people who attend plays instead of raves. Some men really get off on this, and I can see the appeal. I never had a daughter, and a young woman asking my advice is delightful.

Also, maybe his perspective was accurate that your accomplishments were not that great in the grand scheme of things, but he was shit at being polite about that. For example, getting straight A's in high school or college is almost irrelevant the real world, and yet it might be the biggest accomplishment of a young adult's life. Maybe you're a big fish in a small pond, and he was saying, "Hey, the ocean is bigger than this pond." Or maybe he was an insecure jackass. Whatever the truth of that is, I think it's a good strategy to be unimpressed by what you've already accomplished, and to try to impress yourself by accomplishing something harder tomorrow.

Ultimately, it sounds as though he wanted 24/7 and you wanted bedroom only. But the context is that you wanted that *with him*. Maybe some other guy, who won a major award in your field, would draw a different desire out of you. "Yes Master show me your ways." So maybe he was giving orders that he couldn't back up with personal examples.



gnathic -> RE: Question about Guidance and Domination (12/3/2016 3:11:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

FR

Was there an age gap in this relationship? It sounds that way. If you both were at the same age and accomplishment level, then he sounds like a bit of a clueless douche. But if he was older and more "mainstream successful" then there might be another side to the story.

A lot (and I mean A LOT) of women look for older men as mentors -- and I don't mean the word in a cheesy sleazy BDSM club sense. Teach me how to budget money, how to negotiate for better pay, how to hang with people who attend plays instead of raves. Some men really get off on this, and I can see the appeal. I never had a daughter, and a young woman asking my advice is delightful.

Also, maybe his perspective was accurate that your accomplishments were not that great in the grand scheme of things, but he was shit at being polite about that. For example, getting straight A's in high school or college is almost irrelevant the real world, and yet it might be the biggest accomplishment of a young adult's life. Maybe you're a big fish in a small pond, and he was saying, "Hey, the ocean is bigger than this pond." Or maybe he was an insecure jackass. Whatever the truth of that is, I think it's a good strategy to be unimpressed by what you've already accomplished, and to try to impress yourself by accomplishing something harder tomorrow.

Ultimately, it sounds as though he wanted 24/7 and you wanted bedroom only. But the context is that you wanted that *with him*. Maybe some other guy, who won a major award in your field, would draw a different desire out of you. "Yes Master show me your ways." So maybe he was giving orders that he couldn't back up with personal examples.


Yes, the age gap was about 20 years. And he was quite fixated on it, too. I wouldn't say he was more "mainstream successful" though. Just your average guy, really.

I get that, and can totally see why he'd relish it too. I really resented that though, as he was forcing it - and quite blatantly so.

I'm not sure if you reached that part of the thread yet (sorry, there's a lot of it :) ) but I inaccurately used the word "accomplishments"... I was trying to describe how I am confident, otherwise I wouldn't have had the balls to do the things in life that I have done. And the accomplishments I am referring to aren't the sort that you are suggesting. Though even if they were, I would still expect to receive a basic level of respect from him, and would still view condescendingly telling me how to be "more confident" as well as the rest of his attempts to view me as in need of his guidance to be unwanted and inappropriate, given that it has not been negotiated. I also view telling someone how to be more confident as quite contradictory, to be honest. Say, for example, that you were a counsellor, and then some guy/woman came long and started saying to you, "You know, you really should be more caring/understanding in your job. Let me tell you how". It implies that you are *not* caring or understanding, or else why would you need to be taught? Telling me that I need to be more confident is, if anything, a denigrating comment. Generally, I'd agree that everyone should strive for better... but that's very different to completely ignoring what someone has already achieved. He was very eager to go into his own posiitve life experiences and successes, so I see no real reason why I should be subject to different standards.

I'm not sure that I'd want this from anyone, to be honest. I've always been the kind of person that likes to handle my own stuff. I have no problem in seeking out select, specific people in my life for advice when I *do* need it... But these people are those I regard to be highly intelligent, to have expertise on whatever subject I'm struggling with, and are direct and honest and will give me answers that may be tough for me to take. I don't take it simply from someone who is older. Hell, I can think of several people my age or younger that are extremely intelligent and insightful thinkers who could potentially offer more helpful advice than many of my peers who are significantly older. And anyway, I certainly don't want my role with someone to be "recipient of my Domly knowledge and wisdom". It could be Dumbledore stood in front of me and I'd still dislike being spoken to as if I'm something to not take seriously... I personally don't understand how that could lead anyone to confidence. If anything, it emphasises just how much that Dom *doesn't* think they are capable and competent. And I just don't view him as being smarter or wiser than me anyway: He was a lovely guy, but he never gave me the impression (through his behaviour with me, nor the kind of things he told me about in his life or mistakes he had made - many of them very recent) that he was "above" me. I think you should at least be able to walk the walk if you're going to try and talk the talk - and even then... please don't do it with me. Lol.

I think your last sentence says it all.

It's a shame really, because that first time we met, we spoke a lot about our lives. If he was really operating out of insecurity (feeling inadequate if I spoke about my experiences and what I knew), then perhaps he should have reminded himself that if I *wanted* someone highly skilled/intellectual/superior to myself, then I would have gone out and looked for that. He didn't *need* to try to force this role upon me. I already liked him and - at that point - enjoyed his company. He didn't need to do that stuff with me.



RedMagic1 -> RE: Question about Guidance and Domination (12/3/2016 3:36:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gnathic
Telling me that I need to be more confident is, if anything, a denigrating comment.

No, although phrasing it that way may reveal a lack of understanding of the nature of confidence. There are two faces to the notion: actual confidence and the outward appearance of confidence. Actual confidence comes with results -- do something correctly 1000 times and you're pretty sure you can do it the 1001st time. The outward appearance of confidence is a form of stagecraft. It's like bedside manner for a doctor. Maybe the doctor really cares, maybe the doctor hates everyone. Patients don't care about the doc's inner life; they want good bedside manner on the outside. Translate to your example with the therapist: "You aren't connecting well with some patients; try this listening technique and you might connect better."

There are a gazillion little details one can improve to appear more confident -- straight and open posture, broad smile, easy gestures, sentence intonations that end down instead of up. Professional salespeople go to seminars to learn new details -- and actors study their whole lives how to command with their presence.

So your comment is, frankly, a bit weird, and it makes me wonder if you sometimes heard denigrating things from loved ones when you were growing up, or if you have a chip on your shoulder now. Even Kanye West can be more confident. Especially him, as it turns out.

But this is getting off topic, so I'll stop. But I can't help feeling there's more here than meets the eye.



gnathic -> RE: Question about Guidance and Domination (12/3/2016 3:51:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: gnathic
Telling me that I need to be more confident is, if anything, a denigrating comment.

No, although phrasing it that way may reveal a lack of understanding of the nature of confidence. There are two faces to the notion: actual confidence and the outward appearance of confidence. Actual confidence comes with results -- do something correctly 1000 times and you're pretty sure you can do it the 1001st time. The outward appearance of confidence is a form of stagecraft. It's like bedside manner for a doctor. Maybe the doctor really cares, maybe the doctor hates everyone. Patients don't care about the doc's inner life; they want good bedside manner on the outside. Translate to your example with the therapist: "You aren't connecting well with some patients; try this listening technique and you might connect better."

There are a gazillion little details one can improve to appear more confident -- straight and open posture, broad smile, easy gestures, sentence intonations that end down instead of up. Professional salespeople go to seminars to learn new details -- and actors study their whole lives how to command with their presence.

So your comment is, frankly, a bit weird, and it makes me wonder if you sometimes heard denigrating things from loved ones when you were growing up, or if you have a chip on your shoulder now. Even Kanye West can be more confident. Especially him, as it turns out.

But this is getting off topic, so I'll stop. But I can't help feeling there's more here than meets the eye.


I've always viewed real confidence as more quiet and non-declarative, as opposed to loud and lecturing. So I do agree with you there. I suppose an example of that is giving a presentation: The speaker may inside me so nervous that they've barely slept the past few days, and yet appear completely calm and collected during their talk. So I see what you're saying there. Have you read about neuroplasticity, by the way? I think I remember reading somewhere that faking confidence literally rewires your brain in favour of such a mind-set. Amazing.I suppose my analogy was flawed in this respect, in that I was equating calm/understanding with good counselling in itself, whereas these 3 are obviously not synonyms. But like you said regarding there being a difference between apparent confidence (via body posture etc) and real confidence, he wasn't really making a point that I don't appear confident. He was telling me that I outright am not confident in itself. I suppose this is a bit redundant though, considering I never asked him or consented for this kind of "guidance" dynamic, irrespective of whether he thought I needed it or not.

And oh no, I've been quite fortunate. I certainly don't recall ever being denigrated anyway, and I definitely don't feel like anyone in my life currently treats me like that. He was very unique in that respect, hence why I have had such a response to the situation. No one has ever treated me like that before. If anything, I'd say that for the latter half of my life, people have been closer to the opposite side of the scale. I don't think my dislike of being spoken down to in a relationship is a sign that I have a chip on my shoulder ;) I certainly imagine that if I had spoken down to any of my previous partners - or to him, even - they would have had a problem with this. I don't think it is different just because it was a kinky relationship and I was the sub in the D/s equation. Speaking down to someone isn't cool in most situations, especially if not negotiated or consented to.



Alecta -> RE: Question about Guidance and Domination (12/3/2016 4:03:19 PM)

I'm starting to think at least part of the problem was you don't Respect him (capitalised to differentiate from common respect). He's nice, you keep saying, and I suppose something must have appealed to you for you to want to enter a relationship with him, but you did not believe deep down that he was better than you, so you resented it when he acted like he was better or knew better.



ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Question about Guidance and Domination (12/3/2016 4:13:25 PM)

quote:

but you did not believe deep down that he was better than you

I should hope not, that is a very unhealthy basis for any relationship.



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