quote:

The cost of treating illegal aliens amounts to nearly $11 billion a year, according to calculations done by the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), a non-profit group that opposes illegal immigration. And that cost is not expected to go away if a health insurance reform bill becomes law.

“If you’re in this country illegally, should you be able to get health care?” CNN’s John King asked Pelosi. “No, illegal immigrants are not covered by this plan,” she replied.

“And so what happens to a public hospital then, if they walk into the emergency room? The hospital I was at this week, they said, you know, they do 6,000 births a year there and 70 percent of them are for undocumented [patients],” said King…

According to FAIR’s Director of Special Projects Jack Martin, illegal immigrants cost federal and state governments an estimated $10.7 billion a year in health care spending. The numbers are contained in a report that FAIR plans to publish in the near future.

“The numbers that I’ve been running come up to a total of $10.7 billion a year,” Martin told CNSNews.com. Those costs include the cost of so-called “anchor babies” – babies born to illegal immigrant parents in U.S. hospitals, almost always at taxpayers’ expense.

Martin said that he included this cost in his estimate because while the newborns are technically U.S. citizens, taxpayers would never have had to pay their mothers’ medical bills had they not illegally entered the country.

“If the illegal immigrants were prevented from coming into the country or were encouraged to leave the country, that cost would disappear,” said Martin. “Emergency medical care for the delivery of children is the biggest [cost].”

Each anchor baby costs taxpayers an estimated $10,000 each on average, Martin said. These costs are usually paid through Medicaid, the federal program designed to aid America’s poor.

“It’s the same [cost] as any other Medicaid birth, it’s the delivery expenses that average in the neighborhood of about $10,000 per delivery,” he said.

Emergency room care for adults is another “significant” part of illegals’ overall burden, Martin said, one that is primarily borne by states, which subsidize the hospitals whose emergency rooms must treat illegal immigrants, no matter how minor their illness might be.

“It’s a fairly significant contribution,” Martin said, “it comes out of the pocket of the states for the most part because of the fact that it is not covered by Medicaid. The federal government has had a program of partial reimbursement of those expenses but that hasn’t been renewed [by this Congress]. It didn’t begin to cover those expenses [anyway].”

That $10.7 billion is not spread evenly throughout the country, Martin explained, but is borne primarily by states with high populations of illegal aliens -- states such as California, Texas, and Florida.

“In terms of locations, it basically flows with where the largest concentration of illegal immigrants are,” said Martin. “For example, California is the largest and just within the state – not including federal monies – I get that [cost] at $1.6 billion per year.”

In fact, state governments bear the heaviest burden for subsidizing the health care of illegal immigrants. Martin said he calculated that, all told, states pay $6.9 billion per year to care for their illegal immigrant populations…

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The influx of illegal aliens has serious hidden medical
consequences.We judge reality primarily by what we see. But what
we do not see can be more dangerous, more expensive, and more
deadly than what is seen…

What is unseen is their free medical care that has degraded and
closed some of America.s finest emergency medical facilities, and
caused hospital bankruptcies: 84 California hospitals are closing
their doors. Anchor babies. born to illegal aliens instantly qualify
as citizens for welfare benefits and have caused enormous rises in
Medicaid costs and stipends under Supplemental Security Income
and Disability Income…

By default, we grant health passes to illegal aliens. Yet many
illegal aliens harbor fatal diseases that American medicine fought
and vanquished long ago, such as drug-resistant tuberculosis,
malaria, leprosy, plague, polio, dengue, and Chagas disease…

High-technology EDs have degenerated into free medical
offices. Between 1993 and 2003, 60 California hospitals closed
because half their services became unpaid. Another 24 California
hospitals verge on closure. Even ambulances from Mexico come to
American EDs with indigents because the drivers know that
EMTALA requires accepting patients who come
That geographic limit has figured in many lawsuits…

[those greedy racist hospitals!]

Illegal aliens perpetrate much violent crime, the results of
which arrive at EDs. .Dump and run. patients, often requiring
tracheotomy or thoracotomy for stab or gunshot wounds, are
dropped on the hospital sidewalk or at the ED as the car speeds
away. Usually such incidents are connected to drugs and gangs…

While most people coming to EDs throughout the United States
are not poor and have medical insurance, cities such as Los Angeles
with large illegal alien populations, high crime, and powerful
immigrant gangs are losing their hospitals to the ravages of unpaid
care under EMTALA. In Los Angeles, 95 percent of outstanding
homicide warrants are for illegal aliens, as are 66 percent of fugitive
felony warrants. The notorious 18 Street Gang has 20,000
members, of whom 60 to 80 percent are illegal aliens, according to
the California Department of Justice and the Los Angeles Police
Department, respectively. The Lil. Cycos Gang, notorious for
murder, racketeering, and drugs in Los Angeles’ MacArthur Park,
was thought to be 60 percent illegals in 2002, and the percentage is
higher now. Francisco Martinez of the Mexican mafia ran the gang
while imprisoned for felonious reentry after deportation…

In 2003 in Stockton, California, 70 percent of the 2,300 babies
born in San Joaquin General Hospital.s maternity ward were
anchor babies, and 45 percent of Stockton children under age six are
Latino (up from 30 percent in 1993). In 1994, 74,987 anchor
babies in California hospital maternity units cost $215 million and
constituted 36 percent of all Medi-Cal births. Now they account for
substantially more than half…

Consider the story of one illustrative family to show how reality
is the sum of the seen and the unseen. The Silverios from Stockton,
California, are illegal aliens seen as hard-laboring fruit-pickers with
family values. Cristobal Silverio came illegally from Oxtotilan,
Mexico, in 1997 and brought his wife Felipa, plus three children
aged 19, 12, and 8. Felipa, mother of the bride Lourdes (age 19),
gave birth to a new daughter, her anchor baby, named Flor. Flor was
premature, spent three months in the neonatal incubator, and cost
San Joaquin Hospital more than $300,000. Meanwhile, Lourdes
plus her illegal alien husband produced their own anchor baby,
Esmeralda. Grandma Felipa created a second anchor baby,Cristian.

Anchor babies are valuable. A disabled anchor baby is more
valuable than a healthy one. The two Silverio anchor babies
generate $1,000 per month in public welfare funding. Flor gets
$600 per month for asthma. Healthy Cristian gets $400. Cristobal
and Felipa last year earned $18,000 picking fruit. Flor and Cristian
were paid $12,000 for being anchor babies. This illegal alien
family.s annual income tops $30,000.

Stockton Police say that 44 percent of all .hit and runs. are by illegal aliens…

Umberto has five disabled children: two
are autistic, two have attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, and
one has oppositional defiant disorder, with additional obsessive-compulsive
disorder. All take California government-supplied
medications, including Ritalin. The autistic children had
.shadows. or personal attendants, one per child, under the federal
Individuals with Disability Education Act of 1975 (IDEA). The
program provides a shadow, plus an .individual education
program. that cost about $30,000 per year per child. Umberto and
his wife dine out alone each week, thanks to California-provided
respite-care babysitters…

Drug addiction and alcoholism are classified as diseases and
disabilities. Disability CodeDA&Ahad in 1983 only 3,000 stipend
recipients, but in 1994 exploded to 101,000. In 2003, between
250,000 and 400,000 got lump-sum grants of disability money via
SSI. When Linda Torres was arrested in Bakersfield, California,
with about $8,500 in small bills in a sack, the police originally
thought it was stolen money. It was her SSI lump sum award for her
disability: heroin addiction.

Immigrants on SSI, including legal aliens, refugees, and illegals
with fraudulent Social Security cards, numbered a mere 127,900
aliens (3.3 percent of recipients) in 1982. By 1992 the numbers
expanded to 601,430 entitled (10.9 percent of recipients). In 2003,
this figure was several million (about 25 percent of recipients).

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ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
First off, fuck your Snotzi strawman bull shit. Fuck your, as usual, racist strawman as well.

It's not a strawman because I'm not pretending that anyone is making a specific argument. I'm making observations on phenomena that I doubt the participants even grasp the full relevance of. A straw man is a logical fallacy, not just some argument that you happen to disagree with... and it happens within the context of a debate.

Something like 'Why are you liberals always trying to ban guns?' is a straw man because many liberals have not called for a total gun ban, so it is a false assertion attributed to an opponent...and it's always right wingers who do this before the debate even begins, so every gun thread ends up being about gun bans as opposed to anything anyone actually believes in.

But 'The wall is symbolic of their fear of the other and is a sort of veiled racism' is MY assertion, not an assertion I'm attributing to anyone else. If I had said something like 'they have openly stated that they want to ban all immigration', THAT would be a straw man.

I doubt you've understood what I'm saying, so you might as well just say 'fuck your liberal bullshit' or something equally classless.

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There really hasn't been a serious effort to find illegals and deal with the employers.

Maybe because a 'serious' effort would bankrupt the country?

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You're just echoing political excuses. Now I believe there will be a serious effort to stop the influx at the border *first*. It doesn't make sense to deal with those who are already here until you stop the flow. Conspiracy theories aside, these people, by and large will vote for Democrats. So fuck amnesty...........did I mention fuck your racist strawman bull shit? I'll take the discusting Trump as apposed to the even more discusting criminal though above the law Hillary. Trump won. Ya need me to send you a coloring book to go along with that hot chocolate? Bounty sums it up quite well on post #: 64 - 66 and 68. It's worth the read.

Okay, so fix the border first and THEN deploy the deportation force?

You're still looking at hundreds of billions on top of whatever the wall costs to build and maintain... and then there's also the fact that it won't even work.

And they won't vote for the Democrats if the GOP accepts that they're part of society and tailors their platform accordingly. Believe it or not, political parties are supposed to adapt to the needs of the people, not vice versa.

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ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick
But you are in fact defending the actions. By stating that there was in fact a valid provocation is defending the response to that provocation.

quote:

But the thing is, there was no provocation. Expressing support for a contrary political view is NOT a valid provocation. Nor is it an invitation to debate that view. Think about it, is wearing a US flag shirt a provocation? Well it sure as fuck could be to a Native American if we are to use your reasoning.

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You mean like the US flag on a cop's uniform? (see the Native American thing above)

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You mean like wearing a US flag pin? (see the native American thing)

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Sort of like flying the US flag on a native reserve then?

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If you truly believe that supporting a 'contrary political view' is NOT a valid provocation

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I've already addressed this.

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ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
The moment you throw "Nazi" out to smear, belittle or associate your apponent with as in "your false assertion attributed to your apponent", it becomes a strawman. The same goes for your play the racist card crap. If you can't make your argument point by point without screaming Nazi or Racist then you're just another brain dead liberal. If unfettered illegal immigration is such a kewl idea then share with us the reason it's so great without calling people Nazis. If ya think Trump's solution sucks, pray tell why without all the racist nonsense.

quote:

If unfettered illegal immigration is such a kewl idea

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

If you truly believe that supporting a 'contrary political view' is NOT a valid provocation

Darling, as I am a communist, everybody I know supports a "contrary political view" and does so VERY openly, and guess what, I don't consider it a valid provocation. Why is that do you suppose?

quote:

Could it be that I am:
1. A grown up and do not consider a difference of opinion/view to be a challenge to me in any way.
2. Not an asshole who thinks they need to harass or challenge every person who holds a different view from me.
3. Am intelligent enough to understand that in order for me to be able to hold the views I do, I must not only allow, but actively defend the right of others to do the same.

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Actually no, you didn't, you sidestepped it, but thanks for playing all the same.

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Maybe because nobody takes communists seriously?

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That's probably why this thread isn't about you.

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You completely ignored every aspect of my post that explained my position in favor of some sort of self-congratulatory rant about how you're such a wonderful person and you're accusing me of sidestepping??

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick
maybe you need to read a little more closely so you don't stick you foot in your mouth like this in the future. See, I said I don't see it as a valid provocation, I didn't say a thing about anybody else, so what they do and do not take seriously is not relevant.

quote:

Yes dear, because my "rant" actually counters every aspect of your post, unlike your reply regarding my points regarding Native mericans, no doubt because you really don't understand that point to begin with.

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look, your whole argument boils down to "He asked for it, he deserves it, he shouldn't have expressed his opinion when it might annoy somebody" which is a fucking lame excuse, really, really fucking lame.

In short, you really suck at spin.

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Handbags at dawn ladies??

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
Handbags at dawn ladies??

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
If you can't make your argument point by point without screaming Nazi or Racist then you're just another brain dead liberal.

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You said that expressing a political view isn't an invitation to conflict or debate

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick
No i didn't, i said it wasn't a VALID provocation.

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Some people seem to think you're female, HB. Don't know why - you write with a full beard as far as I'm concerned.