heavyblinker
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick
OK, let's try a different tack. let's say I decide to go out topless (perfectly 100% legal here in Canada, though really fucking dumb at this time of year). Now I might well be doing it because it was just a really hot and muggy day, or I might well be doing it to make a political statement. Either way, this would definitely be considered as controversial and provocative by many people.
Yes.
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Now, would the fact that some people do find it controversial and provocative justify them harassing me?
No.
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Should I "expect" that harassment?
Why are you putting "expect" in quotations?
Yes, if you go out topless, you can probably expect a reaction of some kind. I don't know what you can "expect" because I don't know what you mean by "expect" vs. expect. I also don't know what kind of neighborhood you're going to visit or who you'll run into. I don't know if you can expect harassment, but you should probably realize that it could happen. It's up to you to determine what could happen if you do something provocative, and what you will do if someone confronts you about it.
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Should those who harass me be excused because I "should have known" some people would object?
No.
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is it right for anybody to accuse me of being a slut or immoral just because I have sweaty tits?
No.
AND since you're still incapable of separating the reaction from the provocation, let's try a different example.
If a pornstar parachuted into Mosul wearing nothing but whipped cream and an American flag, could she expect to get out alive?
Is it right for her to be tortured and abused by ISIS?
The answer is no.
But exactly what kind of person parachutes into Mosul like that and expects everything to be fine? How stupid do you have to be to not expect something to happen when you do that?? You know what ISIS is capable of, you know that Mosul is overrun, you know that they have extremely conservative views on sexuality... WHY are you provoking them like that unless you're looking for a reaction, probably a bad one?
That is my point... but since I've already made it using similar examples and you completely ignored me, I don't expect you to acknowledge it this time either. You seem adamantly convinced that I support horrible things happening to people who don't deserve it.
The reason I think things like feminism are important is because I recognize that these problems exist. If I didn't think that women couldn't expect to be harassed if they dress a certain way, I would probably be one of those 'mission accomplished, now stop being feminists' people. But there is a difference between defending and acknowledging problems, and there is nothing wrong with accepting that as a society, we're not quite at the point where everyone is basically Vulcan.
Are you just upset that I'm talking about the provoker and not condemning the provokee enough? Is the appropriate reaction here to aggressively defend the provoker and savagely attack and belittle the provokee, declaring myself to be of a superior temperment and them to be disgusting human beings whose worth as a living creature is questionable?
< Message edited by heavyblinker -- 12/8/2016 9:44:11 PM >
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