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RE: GOP leaders defy Trump, concerned over Russian elec... - 12/13/2016 9:00:06 AM   
tamaka


Posts: 5079
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Don't be a cunt. If you want to have a discussion, discuss. If you want to be a child, play with someone else.



Ok. Isn't it true that if the American people would rather not have the information before they voted that they are in effect saying that they prefer to be 'willfully ignorant' and they prefer to make uninformed decisions? If you really value democracy don't you think it makes more sense that voters are informed, or would you rather live in a society where the only information you get is what your rulers want you to have.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: GOP leaders defy Trump, concerned over Russian elec... - 12/13/2016 9:02:54 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		what leads you to believe that the American people would not rather have information before they voted?

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to tamaka)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: GOP leaders defy Trump, concerned over Russian elec... - 12/13/2016 9:19:06 AM   
tamaka


Posts: 5079
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

what leads you to believe that the American people would not rather have information before they voted?


Well instead of being thankful for the information they are more concerned that Russia might be the ones who helped us get it. Really shouldn't we be more upset that our own government wants us to be ignorant?

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: GOP leaders defy Trump, concerned over Russian elec... - 12/13/2016 9:19:24 AM   
WhoreMods


Posts: 10691
Joined: 5/6/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire
WM are you saying Putin is out of control in Syria?

Nope, just that he has spent the civil war supporting a Syrian leader whose only interest in international diplomacy is funding fundamentalist groups, and is currently attacking the non-jihadist anti-Assad rebels, which is creating a power imbalance that daesh are eagerly filling. I only raised this point as a rebuttal to BoscoX's hilariously misinformed argument that Putin is fighting the jihadists. If he was fighting the jihadists he'd have been quite keen to see one of their main sugar daddies in the middle east chased out of Syria.

_____________________________

On the level and looking for a square deal.

(in reply to WickedsDesire)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: GOP leaders defy Trump, concerned over Russian elec... - 12/13/2016 9:48:12 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

what leads you to believe that the American people would not rather have information before they voted?


Well instead of being thankful for the information they are more concerned that Russia might be the ones who helped us get it. Really shouldn't we be more upset that our own government wants us to be ignorant?


That would lead us to believe that we have poisoned information. I do not follow that makes our government wanting to be more ignorant, unless you are saying Trumps incoming administration, and those who are not supporting the investigation.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: GOP leaders defy Trump, concerned over Russian elec... - 12/13/2016 9:50:51 AM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
That would lead us to believe that we have poisoned information. I do not follow that makes our government wanting to be more ignorant, unless you are saying Trumps incoming administration, and those who are not supporting the investigation.


She seems to be arguing that partisan hacks are important because they let everyone know how bad Putin's least favorite candidate is.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: GOP leaders defy Trump, concerned over Russian elec... - 12/13/2016 10:16:56 AM   
BoscoX


Posts: 11227
Joined: 12/10/2016
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Talking with you is pointless because you're playing a child's endless "nuh-uh" game instead of any interest in real discussion.

First, I've never been a card-carrying liberal: I'm largely moderate.

Second, that doesn't by any bizarre stretch of logic = "proud white nationalist." We're a nation of many religions and races and cultures.

And third, it's a silly argument -- we also have intervened to ensure fair and democratic elections; don't we deserve the same treatment?

Being willfully stupid doesn't make you insightful. Just willfully stupid.


This is the second time you have called others "childish" when cornered by facts and logic. Ironic, that.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: GOP leaders defy Trump, concerned over Russian elec... - 12/13/2016 10:18:27 AM   
BoscoX


Posts: 11227
Joined: 12/10/2016
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Don't be a cunt. If you want to have a discussion, discuss. If you want to be a child, play with someone else.



Ok. Isn't it true that if the American people would rather not have the information before they voted that they are in effect saying that they prefer to be 'willfully ignorant' and they prefer to make uninformed decisions? If you really value democracy don't you think it makes more sense that voters are informed, or would you rather live in a society where the only information you get is what your rulers want you to have.


"Cunt" he says. Right after moaning about misogynists.

Modern liberalism on parade.

(in reply to tamaka)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: GOP leaders defy Trump, concerned over Russian elec... - 12/13/2016 10:30:14 AM   
ThatDizzyChick


Posts: 5490
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

At this point, what difference does it make?

Really? A crime was committed, the proceeds of that crime were used to commit a bigger crime, and it may have been an unfriendly foreign country behind it. and you figure that doesn't matter.

I am going to guess you won't be taking that attitude the next time some fucked up crazy opens fire in a school, I mean after all once the guy has already killed the kids, at that point what difference does it make? The kids are still gonna be dead so may as well just ignore it and move on. Right?

He forgot to use the sarcasm font, but that is what it was.

Ah, OK, if you say so. If it was I certainly completely missed it.

_____________________________

Not your average bimbo.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: GOP leaders defy Trump, concerned over Russian elec... - 12/13/2016 10:40:31 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Don't be a cunt. If you want to have a discussion, discuss. If you want to be a child, play with someone else.



Ok. Isn't it true that if the American people would rather not have the information before they voted that they are in effect saying that they prefer to be 'willfully ignorant' and they prefer to make uninformed decisions? If you really value democracy don't you think it makes more sense that voters are informed, or would you rather live in a society where the only information you get is what your rulers want you to have.


"Cunt" he says. Right after moaning about misogynists.

Modern liberalism on parade.

Modern moderatism, actually.

Learn to read.

(in reply to BoscoX)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: GOP leaders defy Trump, concerned over Russian elec... - 12/13/2016 10:43:15 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire
WM are you saying Putin is out of control in Syria?

Nope, just that he has spent the civil war supporting a Syrian leader whose only interest in international diplomacy is funding fundamentalist groups, and is currently attacking the non-jihadist anti-Assad rebels, which is creating a power imbalance that daesh are eagerly filling. I only raised this point as a rebuttal to BoscoX's hilariously misinformed argument that Putin is fighting the jihadists. If he was fighting the jihadists he'd have been quite keen to see one of their main sugar daddies in the middle east chased out of Syria.

Putin is not only on the side of the traditional Syrian oppressive government -- he's doubling down today:

The Russian roulette, opting for Mr. Assad and blocking a sustainable political solution, is a fully loaded gun aimed directly at stability in the entire region.

Even if Mr. Assad prevails in Aleppo, a “solution” that leaves a majority in deep grievance will make the past five years of war just a first phase in a much longer war. It has off-set a wider regional conflict between Sunnis and Shiites, placing Iran as the main regional power using its military for power expansion, and unchecked this will spur further Sunni resentment and violent reaction. The lack of a political solution in Syria will entrench political and economic instability in the whole region, inevitably lead to new conflicts and deepen the refugee crisis many times over.

Adventurist policies in the Middle East may be a free ride for Russia, but it is not for Syrians or for the neighbouring states, and the West will be paying the bill for the entrenchment of the humanitarian crisis and for new massive waves of refugees.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/aleppo-will-fall-and-then-what/article33306291/?click=sf_globefb


< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 12/13/2016 10:55:08 AM >

(in reply to WhoreMods)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: GOP leaders defy Trump, concerned over Russian elec... - 12/13/2016 10:55:54 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Not to mention the horrific situation civilians are facing in Aleppo today (yeah, I'm aware a lot of you don't give a fuck -- but regular humans care about stuff like that).

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/12/civilians-killed-spot-battle-aleppo-nears-161213133240891.html

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: GOP leaders defy Trump, concerned over Russian elec... - 12/13/2016 11:06:18 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Speaking in an emergency debate about the conflict in Aleppo, Mr Johnson said it would not be safe for the UK to try and drop aid into the city because air space was controlled by the Syrian government, its ally Russia and other combatants.

But he said the government was keeping up the diplomatic pressure on President Assad and Russia by pushing for tougher economic sanctions and "gathering the information necessary" for the prosecution of war crimes by combatants in Syria.

The UN has warned that Syrian pro-government forces have been entering homes in eastern Aleppo and killing those inside, including women and children, as they seize control of that part of the city after months of bitter fighting.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38305413

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: GOP leaders defy Trump, concerned over Russian elec... - 12/13/2016 11:15:43 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		And Trump? Let the Russians and the Syrian government destroy Aleppo:

When Trump was asked about running mate Mike Pence’s comment last week that the United States should “use military force” against the Bashar al-Assad regime, he said that he and Pence “haven’t spoken and I disagree.” Instead, Trump said, in reference to the Islamic State, “we have to knock out” the Islamic State.

Rather than challenging the Syrian government of Assad and his allies, Trump said, the United States should be working with them against the Islamic State.

In a totally erroneous comment, Trump said that “Assad is killing ISIS, Russia is killing ISIS, Iran is killing ISIS.”

Although Iran-backed militias in Iraq have fought against the Islamic State, and the Syrian army has skirmished with them in the eastern part of the country, Assad has by and large steered well clear of the militants in Syria, as has Iran. Russia has launched some airstrikes against them in Syria, but the vast majority of its bombardment there has been against U.S.-backed opposition forces and civilians.

Asked what he would do to stop the slaughter from Russian and Syrian airstrikes in Aleppo, Trump said that “Aleppo has basically fallen.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2016/live-updates/general-election/real-time-fact-checking-and-analysis-of-the-2nd-2016-presidential-debate/trump-disagrees-with-pence-on-syria-says-aleppo-is-gone/?utm_term=.a9336d062e01

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: GOP leaders defy Trump, concerned over Russian elec... - 12/13/2016 11:18:10 AM   
BoscoX


Posts: 11227
Joined: 12/10/2016
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Don't be a cunt. If you want to have a discussion, discuss. If you want to be a child, play with someone else.



Ok. Isn't it true that if the American people would rather not have the information before they voted that they are in effect saying that they prefer to be 'willfully ignorant' and they prefer to make uninformed decisions? If you really value democracy don't you think it makes more sense that voters are informed, or would you rather live in a society where the only information you get is what your rulers want you to have.


"Cunt" he says. Right after moaning about misogynists.

Modern liberalism on parade.

Modern moderatism, actually.

Learn to read.


Moderates don't routinely refer to women who disagree with them children, or especially cunts. Actions and words, and all that.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: GOP leaders defy Trump, concerned over Russian elec... - 12/13/2016 11:23:27 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Now one instance is "routine." But if you're happier, you're a cunt too.

You worry about that. The rest of us will discuss Russian influence, GOP leadership at odds with the president-elect, the horrific situation facing Aleppo right now, and the president-elects new buddy fighting against US-backed rebels.

I'm flattered at your obsession with me and my views, but I'm not the important topic here.


(in reply to BoscoX)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: GOP leaders defy Trump, concerned over Russian elec... - 12/13/2016 11:31:28 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		The gruesome reports of executions prompted a UN Security Council emergency meeting Tuesday afternoon at the urging of the United Kingdom and France.

Tough words were aimed at Syria and its allies. Government forces on Tuesday were in control of most of eastern Aleppo, as the battle for the city neared a bloody end. Gaining full control would mark a turning point for the regime in the country's five-year civil war.

"We have collectively failed the people of Syria," said UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon.

US Ambassador to the UN Samantha Power excoriated Syria, Russia and Iran for the bloodshed in Aleppo and asked, "are you truly incapable of shame? and "is there nothing you will not lie about?

"Your barrel bombs and airstrikes ... it is your noose," she said. "Three member states of the UN contributing to a noose around civilians."

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/12/middleeast/aleppo-syria-government-gains/index.html

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: GOP leaders defy Trump, concerned over Russian elec... - 12/13/2016 11:33:47 AM   
BoscoX


Posts: 11227
Joined: 12/10/2016
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Now one instance is "routine." But if you're happier, you're a cunt too.

You worry about that. The rest of us will discuss Russian influence, GOP leadership at odds with the president-elect, the horrific situation facing Aleppo right now, and the president-elects new buddy fighting against US-backed rebels.

I'm flattered at your obsession with me and my views, but I'm not the important topic here.




See there? Devolving a thread into rants about misogynists and then cunts, then when called on your bs claiming that you are beilng obsessed over - that's more alt left loon territory.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: GOP leaders defy Trump, concerned over Russian elec... - 12/13/2016 12:23:59 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Now that that's settled . . .

Let's discuss Russian influence, GOP leadership at odds with the president-elect, the horrific situation facing Aleppo right now, and the president-elect's new buddy fighting against US-backed rebels.





< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 12/13/2016 12:24:38 PM >

(in reply to BoscoX)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: GOP leaders defy Trump, concerned over Russian elec... - 12/13/2016 12:34:49 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		The prospect of the US as a 'banana republic'
(Or how the 'banana republic' came back to bite those who invented it.)

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2016/12/prospect-banana-republic-161207123725710.html

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 100
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