RE: Why do raceplayers get so much crap from everyone

RE: Why do raceplayers get so much crap from everyone (Full Version)

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CaptR -> RE: Why do raceplayers get so much crap from everyone (12/28/2016 8:27:21 PM)
I understood the meat of the matter but thank you for your well penned reply. It was more a rhetorical question than anything.

Wayward5oul -> RE: Why do raceplayers get so much crap from everyone (12/28/2016 8:50:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CaptR I understood the meat of the matter but thank you for your well penned reply. It was more a rhetorical question than anything. I understood it was rhetorical. But previous posts showed some readers were confused, and who knows what people who were reading but not asking questions were thinking, so I thought I would just take that opportunity to jump in there and give it a shot and see if maybe we could steer it back to being an interesting discussion rather than a 'pissing match' over semantics, as you so accurately put it.

longwayhome -> RE: Why do raceplayers get so much crap from everyone (12/29/2016 1:34:26 AM)
FAST REPLY It is a shame that the thread has not really discussed race play and the issue of how kinks and taboos interrelate. Likening race play to paedophilia by labelling them both as kinks is a bit disingenuous. Very loosely if a fetish is an object or "non-sexual" part of the body which is an object for arousal (and often you cannot get aroused without) and a kink is described as sexual deviancy or a "preference" for something considered taboo, sure you can call just about anything a kink. Fixating on whether paedophilia is a kink or not risks missing the most important issue, which is about the consensual or abusive nature of certain positions or practices. The practice of paedophilia is primarily abusive as it involves one party who is particularly vulnerable and therefore is considered not to be able to give fully informed consent. The same might be true of an adult with diminished capacity, some forms of dementia, someone in the more florid stage of a mental illness or someone worn down by extended abuse or maltreatment. Some people use the word "kink" to denote a practice or preference which is not abusive, but the line between a consensual "kink" and abuse seems to be very different for different people. There is certainly an interesting discussion to be had about race play, taboos, discrimination and abuse, especially, as with other "kinks", there is an area where lack of awareness, care, abuse and the judgement of third parties are issues. I'm not defending race play as such: there are all kinds of issues to consider. However shouting "paedophilia" as part of this debate is likening the abuse of a minor, who cannot consent, with a consensual act between adults which may be abusive (as can many other practices). Of course there is a place for discussion of paedophilia but there is a more nuanced discussion to be had about kinks between consenting adults, which enter social minefields and mess with deeply held taboos, in particular what constitutes abuse and the reaction of the "community", BDSM or otherwise. We could be having that discussion - just saying.

CaptR -> RE: Why do raceplayers get so much crap from everyone (12/29/2016 2:45:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: longwayhome . I'm not defending race play as such: there are all kinds of issues to consider. We could be having that discussion - just saying. I'll defend it. Everyone seems to be missing the definition of "play." That the OP has been intimidated into giving up something admittedly edgy because it tweaks someone sensibilities in my opinion is wrong. How many sub types get off on humiliation, how many black owned slaves are there out there.She stated in a later post her kink was enjoyed in private. Why should she be subjected to condemnation from anyone for practicing a consensual kink with another adult? This isn't pedophilia, this isn't rape. It's PLAY for Christ's sakes. As I stated before a key component of racism is inequality. Here you have two people equally consenting, sharing a power dynamic that barring color is practiced by untold numbers of others within the realm of kink. There are no more laws being broken than what a vast majority of us do in bedrooms/dungeons/etc on a daily basis. I had the very good fortune to be acquainted with a woman of color in Texas years back who had a PhD in clinical psychology. She was a direct descendant of slaves out of Georgia. Her reasons for indulging in race play were many, personal and satisfying. It connected her to a heritage that gave her a sense of pride in humble familial beginnings was one answer I received. Race play is practiced on as many levels as any role play and to dub it "racist" under a blanket description is ignorant.

Greta75 -> RE: Why do raceplayers get so much crap from everyone (12/29/2016 3:06:01 AM)
FR And this is precisely. The big word in BDSM is EVERYTHING is Play. So you can play out Pedophilia too without harming a kid. Because it's Play Pretend! Which means one adult is is gonna pretend to be that underage kid. To me, what separates BDSM from Real Rape, Real Slavery, Real Pedophilia, is "PLAY and "Pretend" and "Mutually Consenting adults". And then the "Real Players" would want to make it as realistic as possible and as closely as possible to the real thing. The "Fake Players" like myself, just want it to be all fun and games and lots of mutual laughter and bad acting. And yes some people say it is a way of life. But who say playing can't be a way of life! That's why you play 24/7! And stay in play mode! That's how I saw my own 24/7 D/S relationship in the past. Don't break character. Except at work and infront of family and friends. I mean, real life puts a damper on slavery. Master will not be able to get what Master wants, because Work Boss's demands will come first, since he is the one paying your salary and keeping you fed. Which is why I also feel the whole slavery thing will never be realistic if the slave was working too, as then, they got a higher boss which is the work boss, who is responsible for their livelihood. I guess people get around that by controlling the income earned. That's why dommes do that I guess.

DocStrange -> RE: Why do raceplayers get so much crap from everyone (12/29/2016 3:25:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul quote: ORIGINAL: CaptR I understood the meat of the matter but thank you for your well penned reply. It was more a rhetorical question than anything. I understood it was rhetorical. But previous posts showed some readers were confused, and who knows what people who were reading but not asking questions were thinking, so I thought I would just take that opportunity to jump in there and give it a shot and see if maybe we could steer it back to being an interesting discussion rather than a 'pissing match' over semantics, as you so accurately put it. To further clarify the original intent of this thread. The OP was speaking about consensual play between two adults. And my response to that was also consensual play between two adults. And I will restate what I originally said "There is nothing wrong with it as long as the two people playing consent to it. It is really sad when others attack your kink. While your kink may not be another's kink, they should respect it is your kink." I will clarify by "two people playing" I mean adults so there is no miss understanding. What I did not clarify in my original post was public play versus private play. There will be obvious scenarios where it is not appropriate to play some kinks out in public. Lady Pact I think brought up the dirty diaper scenario. In light of all the police shooting of black people in the news of late, I do not think it would be wise to do White owner/black slave in public especially in the areas where racial tensions are high. Some things will always be off limits in public. Others will be dependent on location and that particular community.

CaptR -> RE: Why do raceplayers get so much crap from everyone (12/29/2016 3:46:47 AM)
I disagree. If I indulge in age play it's with a grown fully aware woman whose bottom just so happens to look good bent over in a short skirt with reddened cheeks. That fact she's 40 and I'm well, over 40 never escapes me. If indulging in rape play it's always consensual and always with the awareness it's role play not an action I'd take to the streets. This post seems to trigger a deep repulsion in you that immediately takes it to the extremes. Pedophilia and rape are abhorrent as is racism but is it so far fetched to understand people can seperate right from wrong here? I like to believe we are all grounded in good ready and able to do no harm. Those that don't adhere to that way of thinking and break the law should rightfully be condemned. Liken it to driving a car. I get behind the wheel daily but not with deadly mal intent. I fully understand your points but we're not all bad people hell bent doing ninety down the road living out harmful fantasies. Addition, this was in reply to Greta. Old eyes are seeing well this early I'm afraid. Oh wait, that was tdc on that soapbox earlier, apologies Greta.

CaptR -> RE: Why do raceplayers get so much crap from everyone (12/29/2016 3:53:31 AM)
It's been a long night

longwayhome -> RE: Why do raceplayers get so much crap from everyone (12/29/2016 4:22:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CaptR quote: ORIGINAL: longwayhome I'm not defending race play as such: there are all kinds of issues to consider. We could be having that discussion - just saying. I'll defend it. Everyone seems to be missing the definition of "play." That the OP has been intimidated into giving up something admittedly edgy because it tweaks someone sensibilities in my opinion is wrong. How many sub types get off on humiliation, how many black owned slaves are there out there.She stated in a later post her kink was enjoyed in private. Why should she be subjected to condemnation from anyone for practicing a consensual kink with another adult? This isn't pedophilia, this isn't rape. It's PLAY for Christ's sakes. As I stated before a key component of racism is inequality. Here you have two people equally consenting, sharing a power dynamic that barring color is practiced by untold numbers of others within the realm of kink. There are no more laws being broken than what a vast majority of us do in bedrooms/dungeons/etc on a daily basis. I had the very good fortune to be acquainted with a woman of color in Texas years back who had a PhD in clinical psychology. She was a direct descendant of slaves out of Georgia. Her reasons for indulging in race play were many, personal and satisfying. It connected her to a heritage that gave her a sense of pride in humble familial beginnings was one answer I received. Race play is practiced on as many levels as any role play and to dub it "racist" under a blanket description is ignorant. I entirely agree with you that race play, if it comes from a place of self-awareness and sensitivity, can indeed be "satisfying" as you say. My only reason for saying at the start of my last post that "I am not defending race play as such" was because I was trying to make a point about the lunacy of somehow implying some sort of moral equivalence with paedophilia. My previous posts in the thread more directly address the race play issue itself. quote: ORIGINAL: longwayhome I had an ex-girlfriend who took great joy from having a white "fuck-boy" and engaged quite heavily in what I could only call race play with me. That came from a place where we were both deeply culturally aware and respectful of each other's history and identity. There was therefore a level of humour and irony in it but not always. I think that people just miss all the subtlety and assume that there is an underlying prejudice in any situation. The truth is that because discrimination and prejudice is an everyday part of life, you cannot entirely ignore it in your personal relationships or else they become false and shallow. Understanding those dynamics as an observer of a relationship or play situation is difficult and made worse by the taboo, but there are things other than race play which people do which mess with taboos as well. I suppose if you mess with a taboo, you can expect some kind of fall out, even from within the supposedly non-judgemental BDSM community. I do get why some people feel uncomfortable, just as they do with age play and rape play, and it's not for everyone. However, as with many kinks, if the dynamic is right for you and it fulfils a need, rather than being ultimately harmful and abusive, I cannot see the problem. Given the sensitivities of race as an issue, I am not sure I would always trust a "neutral" observer to get the dynamic, but I don't see race play as qualitatively different from any other kink, which can be wonderful and fulfilling or damaging and abusive, depending on your personal psychological needs or how you do it. It was certainly something enjoyed at the time, in the complex way I "enjoy" things as a sub.

ExiledSlave -> RE: Why do raceplayers get so much crap from everyone (12/29/2016 5:57:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CaptR I understood the meat of the matter but thank you for your well penned reply. It was more a rhetorical question than anything. It was more ironic (on many levels actually) but it did achieve rhetoric.

CaptR -> RE: Why do raceplayers get so much crap from everyone (12/29/2016 9:50:33 AM)
I'll bow out.

Greta75 -> RE: Why do raceplayers get so much crap from everyone (12/29/2016 8:53:42 PM)
FR There are alot doms looking for "Asian slaves" online. And for me, that is always a hard limit too. The way I see it, I will never feel comfortable with a dominant who has an "Asian owning" kink. Neither am I comfortable with vanilla men with fetishes for Asian women. There are plenty of that as well. The ones who would even only exclusively do Asian women. And precisely why they move here to have access to plenty of Asian women. But if I see an Asian woman who enjoys the race play with a white/black/hispanic male, good for her. If that makes her happy. That's all that matters. It's the same as age play. I don't do age play too. I am completely uncomfortable with the whole DDLG dynamic. Hard limit too. But I will still defend Pedophilia as a legitimate kink in BDSM. As I recognise it as such. Because alot of things in BDSM are unacceptable and Taboo. We just find ways to play it out legally where people don't get hurt and underage don't get hurt.

Wayward5oul -> RE: Why do raceplayers get so much crap from everyone (12/29/2016 9:53:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 But I will still defend Pedophilia as a legitimate kink in BDSM. As I recognise it as such. Because alot of things in BDSM are unacceptable and Taboo. We just find ways to play it out legally where people don't get hurt and underage don't get hurt. No Greta. JUST NO. Pedophilia and Age Play are two different things. One is legal and involves consenting adults. The other is illegal and involves non-consensual assault of minors. The terms are not interchangeable on any way, shape, or form. Call it a kink if you want, going strictly by a dictionary definition, but do not normalize it and say it is a legitimate kink in bdsm. No one recognizes it as such. It is illegal everywhere (or at least I desperately hope so) in the western world, and it denies the idea of consent on the part of at least one party involved. It is actually not even supposed to be discussed in this forum. Call it kink if you want, but it is not an accepted element of bdsm. You will not find any credible sources, persons, citations that view it as 'legitimate'.

heavyblinker -> RE: Why do raceplayers get so much crap from everyone (12/29/2016 11:15:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 It's the same as age play. I don't do age play too. I am completely uncomfortable with the whole DDLG dynamic. Hard limit too. Ha... that's funny, because I'm pretty sure that if I googled 'infantilization of women in Asian culture' your picture would turn up eventually. I'm saying this based purely on what I know of your personality, of course. No play would be necessary.

Greta75 -> RE: Why do raceplayers get so much crap from everyone (12/29/2016 11:31:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker Ha... that's funny, because I'm pretty sure that if I googled 'infantilization of women in Asian culture' your picture would turn up eventually. I'm saying this based purely on what I know of your personality, of course. No play would be necessary. Gosh you are just behaving like the child you are, you are scared that people will judge you in this forum from your background and use it against you, because you are afraid people will do to you what you love doing to others.

Greta75 -> RE: Why do raceplayers get so much crap from everyone (12/29/2016 11:32:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 But I will still defend Pedophilia as a legitimate kink in BDSM. As I recognise it as such. Because alot of things in BDSM are unacceptable and Taboo. We just find ways to play it out legally where people don't get hurt and underage don't get hurt. No Greta. JUST NO. Pedophilia and Age Play are two different things. One is legal and involves consenting adults. The other is illegal and involves non-consensual assault of minors. The terms are not interchangeable on any way, shape, or form. Call it a kink if you want, going strictly by a dictionary definition, but do not normalize it and say it is a legitimate kink in bdsm. No one recognizes it as such. It is illegal everywhere (or at least I desperately hope so) in the western world, and it denies the idea of consent on the part of at least one party involved. It is actually not even supposed to be discussed in this forum. Call it kink if you want, but it is not an accepted element of bdsm. You will not find any credible sources, persons, citations that view it as 'legitimate'. When Rape and Slavery are legitimate kinks, why not pedophilia? They can all be legitimate under consensual conditions. It would just be called Pedophile play instead of just Pedophilia. Just like "Rape play" instead of "Rape". The other thing is, who is the granddaddy of legitimate source of what CAN BE or CANNOT BE BDSM? BDSM is simply Bondage Discipline Sadism Masochism. And many things fall under those Umbrellas. BDSM to me is making everything illegal taboo legal. The moment it is part of BDSM, there has to be consensual element. That's what differentiate BDSM from the real crimes.

tamaka -> RE: Why do raceplayers get so much crap from everyone (12/29/2016 11:39:56 PM)
Because it is considered a crime against children so it more taboo than crimes against adults. However a lot of alt/left psychologists are trying to say that it is normal and natural. And i saw something on FB today that Putin is telling everyone that America is losing our western values and he specifically said that we are trying to normalize pedofelia here.

Greta75 -> RE: Why do raceplayers get so much crap from everyone (12/29/2016 11:46:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka Because it is considered a crime against children so it more taboo than crimes against adults. Still it's a crime. It's still a crime. I don't think sexual assault on a child is worst than sexual assault on a grown woman anyway. Or forced sexual slavery of a grown woman, like those really caught and kept in dungeons for years. They are all as heinous. But in BDSM, we role play them out with consensual legal adults.

heavyblinker -> RE: Why do raceplayers get so much crap from everyone (12/29/2016 11:47:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka However a lot of alt/left psychologists are trying to say that it is normal and natural. And i saw something on FB today that Putin is telling everyone that America is losing our western values and he specifically said that we are trying to normalize pedofelia here. Oh right, the imaginary psychologists who belong to these imaginary political movements. It exists so it can't be a total aberration, but no one is going to say that people should go out and molest children. It's not a bad thing if pedophiles feel comfortable admitting that they're pedophiles so that they can get treated somehow. It's better than punishing them for coming forward, which means they won't come forward and will end up finding acceptance only among other pedos. If they're isolated, they're more likely to see themselves as having nothing to lose by doing it. Putin also asked gay athletes not to molest Russian children during the Sochi Olympics... if you take him seriously, you're an idiot.

CaptR -> RE: Why do raceplayers get so much crap from everyone (12/30/2016 12:05:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka And i saw something on FB today that Putin is telling everyone that America is losing our western values and he specifically said that we are trying to normalize pedofelia here. Race play turned pedophilia turning political? This is better than watching the Fox news blondes! Greta, by your definition BDSM are core values in this lifestyle but aren't those illegal? Bondage is a form confinement, discipline is a form of abuse, sadism is carrying that abuse to extreme and being a masochist is illegally giving someone permission to abuse you. Do you practice any of the above and where do you stop legitimizing behavior?

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