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RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/15/2017 5:58:18 AM   
bounty44


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Status: offline 		and he was demonstrably wrong in his "simple contradiction" yet continues to hold by that standard. I suspect that says something about his being "reasonable."

(in reply to tamaka)
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RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/15/2017 8:52:57 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
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Status: offline 		Why argue over the one thing science and the Bible agree on.... The miracle of creation? Religion just gives a name to it. Neither one explains it.

Butch

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/15/2017 9:10:14 AM   
WickedsDesire


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Status: offline 		As i just did a Monty python clip here is another oneLife of Brian - WTF Moment: UFO Pickup https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSY4fEEg4j0

There is/are no god(s).

Therefore you have two arguments to fall back on.

1. The Universe is an entity and "god"
2. Us earthlings may be a product of Intelligent Design - are not the scriptures awash with references - too many for that to be mere coincidence

i had a curious conversation with a catholic man of science last week and he told me he does not believe in Aliens I tried not to laugh - and their scriptures are awash with that stuff too :P




< Message edited by WickedsDesire -- 1/15/2017 9:12:44 AM >

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RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/15/2017 11:03:18 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

So I presume you have given up, hence conceded your position that God is a criminal simply because God is the creator.

Right



Seems your position is indefensible, I keep waiting for you to level a defense and you dont, what else can anyone think?


Right, and you blame the victims for using their "free will" to go to the slaughter. Show me a location on earth where 7 billion people can go to be safe then. Explain how an infant or adult employs free will to contract painful and fatal brain cancer. Bah! Your point is idiotic.



ok so your are all pissed off that God didnt create you to be some kind of infinitely indestructible super God, I suppose cars can say the same, that you are a criminal as they are being wheeled into the junk yard. Your claim that God is a criminal because God did not create 7 billion Gods has no grounds in reason what so ever that I can think, in fact I cant even think of a poor argument in your favor and as we can see your posts so far are nothing more than pity-party whimpering, something I would expect from someone suffering from an inferiority complex.

One thing, how could you possibly ever know what good is if its impossible to also experience bad? That is the resulting dilemma you would have if God had listened to you. Seems to me God promised rewards to those who suffer in His name.

I dont see criminal, I see someone with an inferiority complex.





< Message edited by Real0ne -- 1/15/2017 11:05:51 AM >

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RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/15/2017 11:12:16 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Right, and you blame the victims for using their "free will" to go to the slaughter.

In fairness, they thought they were going for a swim.



its pretty difficult to 'blame' God unless God set them up like a pieces on a chessboard. Hell the argument is so ridiculous that the planet could bitch to God and whine about Vince trespassing and stealing its resources. Its a bottomless argument of tears and certainly has no bearing on the op.



_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/15/2017 11:16:42 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

The main problem with a question like this is the definition of terms.

What science, what religion are we talking about?

Do I think that the flying spaghetti monster is compatible with science?
No I don't but that doesn't mean that there isn't a religion that is compatible with science.

And what about science, science tends to be very fluid and has gone down many dead ends only to return to follow a different course.
So science doesn't seem to be a very solid foundation to build a course of life on.

Personally I believe in God and feel that science is a way of better understanding God and his ways, rather than the two being incompatible.



Defining/understanding the terms and premise of an argument is not allowed on forums

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Milesnmiles)
Profile   Post #: 386
RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/15/2017 12:27:53 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
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Status: offline 		Just remember there are people of faith with common sense...most are also pragmatic...and a good portion smarter than you or me.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to WickedsDesire)
Profile   Post #: 387
RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/15/2017 12:55:36 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		The problem with Religion is often believers think they have the right or mandate, by their deity, to force their beliefs on others. Many atheists believe science proves that a universal intelligence does not exist and those that do are fools at best and dangerous at worse. This is a faulty belief as well...there are too many unknowns to make this claim.

When there is a lack of knowledge no one should be made fun off or treated with disrespect just because they believe differently than you. If we were to follow this rule there would be much less conflict in this world.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 388
RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/15/2017 1:37:43 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ok so your are all pissed off that God didnt create you to be some kind of infinitely indestructible super God,

I am definitely not angry. I don't believe in any god. But if i am wrong and there is a God-Creator, he is one mean dude.

quote:

I suppose cars can say the same, that you are a criminal as they are being wheeled into the junk yard.
Not an apt comparison.

quote:

Your claim that God is a criminal because God did not create 7 billion Gods has no grounds in reason

Never said that.

quote:

nothing more than pity-party whimpering, something I would expect from someone suffering from an inferiority complex.

Really? Is that what you think?

quote:

One thing, how could you possibly ever know what good is if its impossible to also experience bad?

Is there any joy in this life that can compensate for the horror suffered by multitudes thrashed by God's Nature? I think not.

quote:

Its a bottomless argument of tears and certainly has no bearing on the op.

The lament against God's cruelty is as old as the Book of Job. Why are you surprised?

And some fundamentalist believers deal with the problem of murderous natural catastrophes by denying the science that reveals them (as I posted earlier)

Connection to the OP. Sorry it makes you uncomfortable.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 1/15/2017 1:40:49 PM >

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RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/15/2017 2:35:34 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
quote:

Your claim that God is a criminal because God did not create 7 billion Gods has no grounds in reason

Never said that.


Well unless you are not human or you are impervious to suffering of any kind, as part of the 7 billion human race and subject to suffering you actually expected God to create you with greater powers than God the father since the Christian God is a 'triune' God and Jesus (one 3 parts of the triune Christian God) transubstantiated into flesh and blood and died on the cross. Hence even God suffered death, so wtf makes you so special or the rest of humanity so special that you think God should have created them better than God?


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 390
RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/15/2017 2:41:13 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

I don't believe in any god. But if i am wrong and there is a God-Creator, he is one mean dude.



maybe there is a wee bit more to the design than 'God you big meanie' that unbelievers cant see past.

God could have been nice and not created humans at all.





< Message edited by Real0ne -- 1/15/2017 2:44:03 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 391
RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/15/2017 2:43:13 PM   
tamaka


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

maybe there is a wee bit more to the design than 'God you big meanie' that unbelievers cant see past.


Some Masters make their slaves/subs suffer to show/prove their devotion.

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RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/15/2017 5:08:23 PM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

and he was demonstrably wrong in his "simple contradiction" yet continues to hold by that standard. I suspect that says something about his being "reasonable."

Nio, you are demonstrably a retard, did joe fuck the whore or did yhwh the xtian fuck the whore?

You are not reasonable having no possession of reason, but only felchgobble. Demonstrably a toiletlicker.



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RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/15/2017 6:13:23 PM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		You lost me there.

But it seems a dissension.

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RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/15/2017 8:05:16 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

maybe there is a wee bit more to the design than 'God you big meanie' that unbelievers cant see past.


Some Masters make their slaves/subs suffer to show/prove their devotion.

That's pretty much the case with Abraham and Isaac.

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it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/16/2017 6:36:46 AM   
Musicmystery


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RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/16/2017 9:05:00 AM   
Kirata


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~ FR ~

The intuition that there is more to life than what our physical sciences are able to reveal neither contradicts science nor requires the revision of any scientific laws. The only thing it offends is an obnoxious brand of dogmatic Materialism that asserts a metaphysical claim about the ultimate nature of reality that it cannot prove but is prepared to defend with all the vigor of the Medieval church.

The argument that suffering is incompatible with an omnipotent benevolent God depends on the assumption that God is not also just and that suffering is seldom if ever compensated. But is this true? The only available evidence depends on the assumption that this life is all there is, and what you see is what you get. But is that true? These are not trivial questions.

In the final analysis, we dealing with matters of personal belief. I don't know whether there is a God or not. But there is nothing compelling about a line of reasoning that does not proceed from demonstrably valid premises, and the argument that suffering is incompatible with an omnipotent benevolent God is conspicuously lacking.

K.

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RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/16/2017 9:05:28 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

and Job.

Yes, true. But if not explicitly stated then implicitly God replied to Job's WHY question with "because I am God and yes, I can"

From Wiki on Book of Job . . .

God speaks from a whirlwind. His speeches neither explain Job's suffering, nor defend divine justice, nor enter into the courtroom confrontation that Job has demanded, nor respond to his oath of innocence.[13] Instead they contrast Job's weakness with divine wisdom and omnipotence: "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?"

That is one answer to the problem of suffering. Another was suggested by RO: you can't know good if you don't know evil.

Here is a comment I plucked from Yahoo:

What even that overlooks, of course, is all the 'evil' that is NOT caused by humanity itself. God COULD have created a universe where children weren't born with cancer, where volcanoes didn't incinerate whole villages alive, or where animals didn't regularly maul people. Removing these things wouldn't in any way have interfered with peoples' ability to do good or evil. So you're left with your original problem: a good person with the power to do so would certainly save babies, villages, and the like... and he certainly wouldn't have created these situations in the first place. So why did God specifically put man in harm's way and specifically not save him?

PROBLEM OF EVIL



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RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/16/2017 9:09:47 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

In the final analysis, we dealing with matters of personal belief. I don't know whether there is a God or not. But there is nothing compelling about a line of reasoning that does not proceed from demonstrably valid premises, and the argument that suffering is incompatible with an omnipotent benevolent God is conspicuously lacking.


Personal belief, yes of course, but we disagree on the issue of theodicy.

quote:

The only available evidence depends on the assumption that this life is all there is, and what you see is what you get. But is that true? These are not trivial questions.

Yes, that is another answer to the lament against suffering: they will be rewarded in the afterlife if there is one.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 1/16/2017 9:15:28 AM >

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RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/16/2017 9:13:42 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

so wtf makes you so special or the rest of humanity so special that you think God should have created them better than God?

Again, not what I said. You are making shit up.

quote:

God could have been nice and not created humans at all.


Probably would have saved Himself some headaches.

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vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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