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Still Need Growth - 7/24/2006 2:40:35 PM   
babysburnin


Posts: 421
Joined: 2/16/2006
Status: offline 		I am "open", at least I try to be.  I am "secure", for the most part.  I know my Dom is trustworthy and actually loves me.  We are "in-love", but I still get jealous.  What the heck?



_____________________________

-Babysburnin

"Love is, above all else, the gift of oneself."
- Jean Anouilh

"The highest proof of virtue is to possess boundless power without abusing it."
- Lord Macaulay
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RE: Still Need Growth - 7/24/2006 3:03:35 PM   
swtnsparkling


Posts: 1738
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I think Jealousy comes from Insecurity

_____________________________

Never make anyone a priority who treats you as an option 2003

Walk in Peace
A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better than a "Yes" uttered merely to please



(in reply to babysburnin)
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RE: Still Need Growth - 7/24/2006 3:28:07 PM   
littleone35


Posts: 2828
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline 		Well just today i said you are my Master noone esle can have you.  He said my sweetheart are you possivive i said i sure am Master.

Matt's littleone

(in reply to swtnsparkling)
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RE: Still Need Growth - 7/24/2006 3:34:30 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		I'm afraid love doesn't solve problems.  Jealousy IS a sign of an insecurity.  That doesn't mean the relationship is doomed or that it's even a serious problem.  But it does mean it's something you need to recognize and work on.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_469964/mpage_1/key_jealousy/tm.htm#470560
Define Jealousy

http://www.collarchat.com/tm.asp?m=428635&mpage=1&key=jealousy&#428636
Jealousy and Envy

http://www.collarchat.com/tm.asp?m=424827&mpage=2&key=jealousy&#425069
Jealousy (5)

http://www.collarchat.com/tm.asp?m=417231&mpage=1&key=jealousy&#423661
1 master 2 subs

http://www.collarchat.com/m_374948/mpage_1/key_jealousy/tm.htm#377940
No green eyed monsters allowed!

http://www.collarchat.com/m_351171/mpage_1/key_jealousy/tm.htm#352231
The Green-Eyed Monster

http://www.collarchat.com/m_289099/mpage_1/key_jealousy/tm.htm#289531
The little green eyed monster

http://www.collarchat.com/m_273729/mpage_2/key_jealousy/tm.htm#273795
Jealousy

http://www.collarchat.com/m_233131/mpage_1/key_jealousy/tm.htm#233136
Jealousy (2)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_232405/mpage_1/key_jealousy/tm.htm#232461
Jealousy (3)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_209316/mpage_1/key_jealousy/tm.htm#209381
Jealousy Issues

http://www.collarchat.com/m_207541/mpage_1/key_jealousy/tm.htm#207542
Jealousy (4)

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to babysburnin)
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RE: Still Need Growth - 7/24/2006 3:40:23 PM   
babysburnin


Posts: 421
Joined: 2/16/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks LA

_____________________________

-Babysburnin

"Love is, above all else, the gift of oneself."
- Jean Anouilh

"The highest proof of virtue is to possess boundless power without abusing it."
- Lord Macaulay

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RE: Still Need Growth - 7/24/2006 4:01:06 PM   
wouldlike2


Posts: 89
Joined: 9/25/2005
Status: offline 		with all respect LuckyAlbatross - i do not agree that jeaulousy is a sign of insecurity..

so many reason exist why people are jeaulous...

and i often do wonder why people mostly just mention as an insecurity, low self esteem.. etc.

people sometimes jealous cause they were burned in the past, cause they pissed off when realizing that another one get more attention, time or whatever - cause we are no matyrs and wanna be filled with our self-seeking wants, needs and desires..
therefor we are humans..

i do find it very easy that people come along and tell - hey its a sign of insecurity - deal with ...
i would rather prefer that people get to know each other and communicate - to find out whats the reason for a feeling like that.
just my two cent...

pet


_____________________________

Love arises from the mind while the body follows and reflect the soul

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RE: Still Need Growth - 7/24/2006 4:22:17 PM   
Zenar


Posts: 39
Joined: 4/4/2005
Status: offline 		I am going to try to keep this from becoming a poly vrs monagamous argument, but there was a discussion in a local group very similar to this on Possesiveness vrs Jealousy that I found interesting. In communicating this I am keeping this short so it will sound steriotypical, but there was a comparison between male dominants vrs female dominants. I am definately not going to say this is my own ideal or what I myself believe in, but rather an observation on a group of people discussing this issue.

The thing was that most (not all) male dominants tended to have the view that they would want to have one submisive or slave to call their own, perhaps let them play around with permission, and that they them self would still want to have others. In contrast the females wanted to have one submisive or slave that was definitively theirs to own. They might deside to share that person with someone else, but they would be in complete control of the situation. Regardless on which side of the coin you look, it becomes a question of does the male, be it top or bottom, do they get to have only one female or do they ge to have more? This is not to say that some females might want more than one man, but it seems there is a definate draw to the fact that so many men want more than one female.

In our current culture, the female can easily attract multiple men where as it is very difficult for the male to attract multiple females, or at least in American culture that is the values of this topic that we are led to believe. Conversly the natural anthropological order for humans as a breed of animal is that there are three females to every one male. So this is an inherant animalistic urge that we as an animal have cultivated, we as men are wired this way a the physical level. Now this is not to say that some of us dont enjoy a monogamous relation, we are after all more than a breed of animal, we have culture.

Now we look again at your jelousy. You have not stated if this is an open relation or a monogamous one, but regardless you are feeling jelousies, which I have to agree comes from insecurities. Do you really feel jealousy or is it that you only feel possessive? The next question becomes are these jealousies coming from your self, or are they grounded in some thing coming from him? The best thing I can suggest is that you sit down with him and discuss this with him. Hopefully he will help you work through these insecurities. It is one thing to feel possessive, it is another to feel jealousy, and yes a submisive is allowed to feel possessive of their dominant. One cannot ignore what they feel, nor can they change that. Fire still burns no matter how much you dont want to feel it!

(in reply to babysburnin)
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RE: Still Need Growth - 7/24/2006 4:29:46 PM   
wouldlike2


Posts: 89
Joined: 9/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zenar

The next question becomes are these jealousies coming from your self, or are they grounded in some thing coming from him? The best thing I can suggest is that you sit down with him and discuss this with him. Hopefully he will help you work through these insecurities. It is one thing to feel possessive, it is another to feel jealousy, and yes a submisive is allowed to feel possessive of their dominant. One cannot ignore what they feel, nor can they change that. Fire still burns no matter how much you dont want to feel it!



very well said and like i told before... jeaulousy can have a lot of reasons.. and not just the "insecurity" so often mentioned.

pet


_____________________________

Love arises from the mind while the body follows and reflect the soul

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RE: Still Need Growth - 7/24/2006 5:27:13 PM   
ceri


Posts: 6
Joined: 7/11/2006
Status: offline 		whatever the reason - only a very VERY secure and together person feels no jealousy. i think that personally the thing to do is to do a sort of "gap analysis" - what is it that is the difference between you as a "non jealous, secure" person and you as a "jealous, something's not right" person.


see - i dont think that it's necessarily all about insecurity, but when jealousy ISN'T there, its almost always about security. So whatever the difference is, between what you are and what you need to be not to be jealous, that's where the work needs to be done.

Making any kind of sense yet?

(in reply to wouldlike2)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Still Need Growth - 7/24/2006 5:34:04 PM   
babysburnin


Posts: 421
Joined: 2/16/2006
Status: offline 		Zenar... I'm a "thoughtful" person, and I can see your distinction between jealousy and possessiveness.  I guess I should go "pee" on him... that way, all other fems would know he's been "peed on", smell me, and know not to mess with MY Dom... or I will knock them down!  (I'm kidding!!!)  Your points are valid.

< Message edited by babysburnin -- 7/24/2006 5:35:01 PM >

_____________________________

-Babysburnin

"Love is, above all else, the gift of oneself."
- Jean Anouilh

"The highest proof of virtue is to possess boundless power without abusing it."
- Lord Macaulay

(in reply to Zenar)
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RE: Still Need Growth - 7/24/2006 5:39:35 PM   
reticence


Posts: 180
Joined: 2/28/2006
Status: offline 		Babysburnin..

I read somewhere that is what fabric softener is for.... Load up his clothes with fabric softener... other women will smell it and it says "taken"  *giggle*  (just a hint from one possessive submissive to another)

edited for a spelling error

< Message edited by reticence -- 7/24/2006 5:40:42 PM >

(in reply to babysburnin)
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RE: Still Need Growth - 7/24/2006 7:58:32 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wouldlike2
with all respect LuckyAlbatross - i do not agree that jeaulousy is a sign of insecurity.

I think at the root of every kernel of jealousy is some insecurity.

There's something not completely secure if you're feeling jealousy.

Again- that's not a huge problem.  Getting jealous does not mean you are completely insecure- just that there is some insecurity rolling around.  It's not even necessarily an insecurity you need to fix or patch- I think we've all got insecurities pretty much.  But recognizing the source and dealing with it openly is the best thing to do.

And it has nothing to do with "how much you love him."

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to wouldlike2)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Still Need Growth - 7/24/2006 11:37:43 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I know some people will think that I am wrong about this, but jealousy is just like any other emotion, it is neither good or bad, it is just a feeling like any other. Our feelings exist for a reason, they exist within a context. It is what we do about those feelings that matters. If I feel jealous (which at times I do) I admit it, often to my Daddy, and it is released into the universe and set free. If I try to deal with it by denying it and swallowing it then I am not handling it correctly. It is how we handle what we perceive as negative emotions that is the measure of who we are.. not the fact that we have them. I do not think that jealousy is worse than anger or sadness or fear or joy.. they are all a part of what it is to be human.

If you look at what depression is, it is anger turned in on oneself. If you look at what anger is, it is usually fear based. If you look at what jealousy is, it is fear too, and it is fear that you could lose this person you love. It is a pretty normal thing to fear this.

My former dominant was very unhealthy about jealousy, and that is part of the reason I feel the way I do today about it. He would not tolerate any expression of jealousy on my part, which means I had to deny I felt it, which meant I never released the insecurities. He felt jealousy was a weak thing, and made a person less. It also meant that when he felt jealous of me (and believe me at times he did) he would not express it well and he would take it out on me emotionally. He said jealousy was unhealthy, well he taught me that supressing it is more so.

Jealous feelings do not entitle me to tell my Dom when to come home, check up on him, or glare everytime an attractive woman is in our presense.. it does mean I should say, "I know this is silly, but that made me jealous".. and have him tell me just how silly it is while he pets my hair.

Basically I refuse to deny my feelings anymore, and I refuse to let them control me either, and I take responsibility for how I react to what I feel.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to babysburnin)
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RE: Still Need Growth - 7/25/2006 1:18:41 AM   
babysburnin


Posts: 421
Joined: 2/16/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

it does mean I should say, "I know this is silly, but that made me jealous".. and have him tell me just how silly it is while he pets my hair.



LOL...me too. 

_____________________________

-Babysburnin

"Love is, above all else, the gift of oneself."
- Jean Anouilh

"The highest proof of virtue is to possess boundless power without abusing it."
- Lord Macaulay

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Still Need Growth - 7/25/2006 5:07:54 AM   
irishbynature


Posts: 551
Joined: 5/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I do not think that jealousy is worse than anger or sadness or fear or joy.. they are all a part of what it is to be human.

If you look at what depression is, it is anger turned in on oneself. If you look at what anger is, it is usually fear based. If you look at what jealousy is, it is fear too, and it is fear that you could lose this person you love. It is a pretty normal thing to fear this.

My former dominant was very unhealthy about jealousy, and that is part of the reason I feel the way I do today about it. He would not tolerate any expression of jealousy on my part, which means I had to deny I felt it, which meant I never released the insecurities. He felt jealousy was a weak thing, and made a person less. It also meant that when he felt jealous of me (and believe me at times he did) he would not express it well and he would take it out on me emotionally. He said jealousy was unhealthy, well he taught me that supressing it is more so.

Basically I refuse to deny my feelings anymore, and I refuse to let them control me either, and I take responsibility for how I react to what I feel.

Julia....your reply brings up so many thoughts w/in myself..and memories of our years of communication (concerning  your former's behavior) and what I put up w/ my former. Lessons learned---all emotions are OK as long as we examine the roots of the emotion, explore them, and always question our motivations/intent behind our reactions/emotions. (*as I see you have learned to do*)

Well said Julia!
Irishbynature

_____________________________


What seems nasty, painful, or evil, can become a source of beauty, joy, and strength, for those who have the vision to recognize it as such. Henry Miller


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RE: Still Need Growth - 7/26/2006 8:26:18 PM   
Zenar


Posts: 39
Joined: 4/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: babysburnin

Zenar... I'm a "thoughtful" person, and I can see your distinction between jealousy and possessiveness.  I guess I should go "pee" on him... that way, all other fems would know he's been "peed on", smell me, and know not to mess with MY Dom... or I will knock them down!  (I'm kidding!!!)  Your points are valid.



It reminds me of one thing, why does it seem like girls have this internal built in radar that detects when a man is already taken, and why does it always work backwards. "That guy is with a girl, he must be worth having!" Of course when we men are available, you get the point.

_____________________________

I know I am a mean evil bastard, but at least I am honest about it.

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RE: Still Need Growth - 1/4/2007 4:24:41 PM   
blackwinterbyrd


Posts: 112
Joined: 9/4/2006
Status: offline 		fabric softener or glitter :)  My personal favorite territorial thing to do is braids in the hair.  I am perfectly up front about it; and I see no conflict with expressions of territory and polyamory.  It makes me feel safe and proud.  we girlies wear tags, which also helps me feel safe and proud

(in reply to Zenar)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Still Need Growth - 1/4/2007 5:04:45 PM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline 		I don't agree with this because I'm not a jealous/possessive person.  I've just learned a certain detatchment and how to let go.  It truly isn't a matter of being secure.  Its more a matter of having learned early on in my life to keep expectations in check and realistic so as to avoid unnecessary pain.

I really don't think jealousy is all bad and it's not necessarily a sign that 'something needs to be worked on.'

(in reply to ceri)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Still Need Growth - 1/4/2007 5:35:09 PM   
bandit25


Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		I guess it depends upon how the jealousy manifests itself.  Now, I'm not a jealous person...never have been.  Things definitely annoy me (and some may consider that jealousy).  When that happens,  I walk away...remove myself from whatever is annoying me.  Seems to work for me. 

As MFM would say...for me jealousy is all about "my stuff".

(in reply to gypsygrl)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Still Need Growth - 1/4/2007 5:42:25 PM   
LaraVictore


Posts: 41
Joined: 7/23/2006
From: http://www.laravictore.com
Status: offline 		I was jealous, when puppy loving at 17. I sent a glass to his face and guaranteed myself eternal hatred from that popular boy's mom. Oh My Dog, I had balls as a Teen!
However, after spirtitual cleanings and many many books, I reached "possessiveness", outgrew that phase also and took the French approach of "I don't give a s....I'll cheat to take revenge". After all, "envy", the sister feeling to the other two,  I never feel.   
Recently, I found myself almost tormented by the closeness of My slave's younger sister on OUR coach. My handsome property got it telepathically :)and re-assured me by carressing my leg during the rest of the neat family reunion. I honestly thought:"I am so lucky MY guy is a slave; I don't have to think about murder. No matter what the pshyco or spiritual trends are,  "possessiveness"is also a bitch and a witch, torturing without consent. No, having a BDSM realtionship does not always have perks. Hopefully, someone tells US how to harmonize this paradoxal  zone between being a slave Owner and feeling threatened by sudden possessiveness complexes in our unreal vanilla life. If not, I will just bet on the strongest truth I know: his heart is mine.Too bad no one sees that his ass is totally mine too. Do I need therapy? No, in my house, we don't section our minds, we session..

_____________________________

Nothing is sexier than a praying man:
"I revealed Your character & Your very Self, & I will continue to make [You] known, that the love which You have bestowed upon Me may be in them & that I may be in them. By Master King J.C. John17,26


(in reply to babysburnin)
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