Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

Plato explains the rise of Trump


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> Plato explains the rise of Trump Page: [1] 2 3 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Plato explains the rise of Trump - 1/20/2017 5:09:14 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
This is a fascinating little video. A few things are weird; others seem more plausible. Trump's rise to the presidency is attributable to the dynamics of democracy themselves ....

Anyway, well worth the three minutes' viewing, I thought.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnzo9qXLFUo

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com

Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Plato explains the rise of Trump - 1/20/2017 5:37:24 AM   
WhoreMods


Posts: 10691
Joined: 5/6/2016
Status: offline
Damn: I thought this was going to be something about the circus peanut and Platonic solids (that is brown showers rather than watersports)...

_____________________________

On the level and looking for a square deal.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Plato explains the rise of Trump - 1/20/2017 5:38:32 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
I worry about you sometimes, WM. ;)

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to WhoreMods)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Plato explains the rise of Trump - 1/20/2017 5:47:17 AM   
WhoreMods


Posts: 10691
Joined: 5/6/2016
Status: offline
You don't think that Melania looks so anally retentive she probably shits out a set of nerd dice shaped turds rather than a rope whenever she takes a dump, then?

_____________________________

On the level and looking for a square deal.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Plato explains the rise of Trump - 1/20/2017 6:53:52 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
Right, that's it, my lunch is coming back up.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to WhoreMods)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Plato explains the rise of Trump - 1/20/2017 7:15:05 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
Interestingly, Plato's point about tyranny arising out of democracy also describes Germany in the 1920s and 1930s, which saw Hitler emerge triumphant out of the ruins of the Weimar Republic's failed democracy.

Why some ordinary people - working class and middle class - arrived at the conclusion that a born rich billionaire who has devoted his life to rapacious and avaricious self aggrandisement is the best person to represent their interests and carry out their wishes is a question still awaiting a conclusive answer. Perhaps if more people knew of Plato's views the nightmare might never have happened.

_____________________________



(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Plato explains the rise of Trump - 1/20/2017 7:29:37 AM   
ManOeuvre


Posts: 277
Joined: 3/2/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Perhaps if more people knew of Plato's views the nightmare might never have happened.


Pray to know, but loathe to espouse. While I usually choose to hear or read Platonic in the most positive sense, much of Plato's political views amounted to tyranny of a sort we came to know very well last century.

< Message edited by ManOeuvre -- 1/20/2017 7:30:20 AM >

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Plato explains the rise of Trump - 1/20/2017 7:31:51 AM   
blnymph


Posts: 1599
Joined: 11/13/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Interestingly, Plato's point about tyranny arising out of democracy also describes Germany in the 1920s and 1930s, which saw Hitler emerge triumphant out of the ruins of the Weimar Republic's failed democracy.

Why some ordinary people - working class and middle class - arrived at the conclusion that a born rich billionaire who has devoted his life to rapacious and avaricious self aggrandisement is the best person to represent their interests and carry out their wishes is a question still awaiting a conclusive answer. Perhaps if more people knew of Plato's views the nightmare might never have happened.


Plato is an interesting read not only for historians and philosophers indeed. Old but very modern.

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Plato explains the rise of Trump - 1/20/2017 7:47:31 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Why some ordinary people - working class and middle class - arrived at the conclusion that a born rich billionaire who has devoted his life to rapacious and avaricious self aggrandisement is the best person to represent their interests and carry out their wishes is a question still awaiting a conclusive answer.


Maybe the ordinary people didn't know what those words meant?

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Plato explains the rise of Trump - 1/20/2017 7:51:07 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
This is a fascinating little video. A few things are weird; others seem more plausible. Trump's rise to the presidency is attributable to the dynamics of democracy themselves ....
Anyway, well worth the three minutes' viewing, I thought.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnzo9qXLFUo


Damn, that is chilling in it's accuracy!


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Plato explains the rise of Trump - 1/20/2017 8:12:34 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Interestingly, Plato's point about tyranny arising out of democracy also describes Germany in the 1920s and 1930s, which saw Hitler emerge triumphant out of the ruins of the Weimar Republic's failed democracy.

Why some ordinary people - working class and middle class - arrived at the conclusion that a born rich billionaire who has devoted his life to rapacious and avaricious self aggrandisement is the best person to represent their interests and carry out their wishes is a question still awaiting a conclusive answer. Perhaps if more people knew of Plato's views the nightmare might never have happened.

True enough because Hitler had a ready made catalog of enemies to blame and who he and his party were to combat, using the fear to coop democracy itself that we see in the proscriptions already of the BOR.

Those that had kept Germany down, i.e., those that wrote and implemented the treaty of Versailles.

The communists as political enemies.

Then for wealth, the Jews and stole everything he could from them.

So on a less comprehensive and more general matter, we have the enemy...Muslims and 'internationalists.'

Politics...everything now including polls...is rigged and those against [him] are part of swamp, even traitors.

The wealth is systematic now and will get worse soon as [their] taxes are cut and debt reaches the tipping point...nobody buying without higher and crippling interest rates.

But what could really bring on our downfall is and has been the works since Reagan and what as I've written, our founding fathers studied yet failed to prevent...faction. The outright, Orwellian blandishment as any opposition as traitorous.

Plato hit all of high points.


< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 1/20/2017 8:13:13 AM >


_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Plato explains the rise of Trump - 1/20/2017 8:23:29 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline
"Then for wealth, the Jews and stole everything he could from them. "

Yup, took their gold teeth. Took their Swiss bank accounts.

In a country where you needed a wheelbarrel to buy a loaf of bread.

Go ahead and say they earned it, and you might as well say that the bankers earned what they scammed the People out of in 1929 and 2008.

These things don't just happen. Money goes up unless an effective government stops it. These "effective" governments get paid not to stop it.

Guess what happens next.

T^T

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Plato explains the rise of Trump - 1/20/2017 9:07:42 AM   
outlier


Posts: 1111
Joined: 10/22/2005
Status: offline
Thank you for sharing this Peon. Excellent!

As long as we are taking a philosophical look at
the Trump phenomena I will ad this:

"Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness.
When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no
direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is
not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

George Santayana

< Message edited by outlier -- 1/20/2017 9:23:25 AM >


_____________________________

Avatar from xkcd.com

"A happy sex life may take years to achieve, but it’s worth it in the long run.
Worth the time, the thought - or rather, the thoughtfulness - and, often,
the waiting." Pete Seeger

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Plato explains the rise of Trump - 1/20/2017 9:15:23 AM   
BoscoX


Posts: 11241
Joined: 12/10/2016
Status: offline
More fake news from the BBC

Fortunately, the United States isn't a democracy. We have safeguards in the Republican system that Democrats keep trying to undermine but which are still mostly in place

_____________________________

Thought Criminal

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Plato explains the rise of Trump - 1/20/2017 9:53:16 AM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

More fake news from the BBC


For one, it's not "News" of any sort.
Ergo: it can't be "fake news".

Secondly, it's an opinion piece by Andrew Sullivan, not the BBC.
So again, it can't be "fake news" because it's the opinion of a blogger, not a news item.
In the second of two very personal viewpoints for BBC Newsnight, British-American author and blogger Andrew Sullivan argues there are lessons to be learnt from Plato.
It happened to be aired by a BBC opinion program.

As usual InSanity - you're full of shit.


_____________________________

If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
George Orwell, 1903-1950


(in reply to BoscoX)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Plato explains the rise of Trump - 1/20/2017 9:58:11 AM   
WickedsDesire


Posts: 9362
Joined: 11/4/2015
Status: offline
Obedient mob - fair guffawed at that - they truly are unaware arnt they

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKvvOFIHs4k its actually quite a good film

(in reply to BoscoX)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Plato explains the rise of Trump - 1/20/2017 10:13:31 AM   
BoscoX


Posts: 11241
Joined: 12/10/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

More fake news from the BBC


For one, it's not "News" of any sort.
Ergo: it can't be "fake news".

Secondly, it's an opinion piece by Andrew Sullivan, not the BBC.
So again, it can't be "fake news" because it's the opinion of a blogger, not a news item.
In the second of two very personal viewpoints for BBC Newsnight, British-American author and blogger Andrew Sullivan argues there are lessons to be learnt from Plato.
It happened to be aired by a BBC opinion program.

As usual InSanity - you're full of shit.



Why is it that I constantly have these angry little men trying to nip at my boot heels

_____________________________

Thought Criminal

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Plato explains the rise of Trump - 1/20/2017 11:00:00 AM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX
Why is it that I constantly have these angry little men trying to nip at my boot heels

Because you're always posting shit.


_____________________________

If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
George Orwell, 1903-1950


(in reply to BoscoX)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Plato explains the rise of Trump - 1/20/2017 11:17:09 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Interestingly, Plato's point about tyranny arising out of democracy also describes Germany in the 1920s and 1930s, which saw Hitler emerge triumphant out of the ruins of the Weimar Republic's failed democracy.

Why some ordinary people - working class and middle class - arrived at the conclusion that a born rich billionaire who has devoted his life to rapacious and avaricious self aggrandisement is the best person to represent their interests and carry out their wishes is a question still awaiting a conclusive answer. Perhaps if more people knew of Plato's views the nightmare might never have happened.

There have been answers. Not big, conclusive answers to be sure but there have been answers. One problem is that many don't want to hear them. From another writer:

If you want to know why Trump won, just look at the response to his winning. The lofty contempt for ‘low information’ Americans. The barely concealed disgust for the rednecks and cretins of ‘flyover’ America who are apparently racist and misogynistic and homophobic. The haughty sneering at the vulgar, moneyed American political system and how it has allowed a wealthy candidate to poison the little people’s mushy, malleable minds. The suggestion that American women, more than 40 per cent of whom are thought to have voted for Trump, suffer from internalised misogyny: that is, they don’t know their own minds, the poor dears. The hysterical, borderline apocalyptic claims that the world is now infernally screwed because ‘our candidate’, the good, pure person, didn’t get in.

This response to Trump’s victory reveals why Trump was victorious. Because those who do politics these days — the political establishment, the media, the academy, the celeb set — are so contemptuous of ordinary people, so hateful of the herd, so convinced that the mass of society cannot be trusted to make political decisions, and now those ordinary people have given their response to such top-down sneering and prejudice.

Oh, the irony of observers denouncing Middle America as a seething hotbed of hatred even as they hatefully libel it a dumb and ugly mob. Having turned America’s ‘left behind’ into the butt of every clever East Coast joke, and the target of every handwringing newspaper article about America’s dark heart and its strange, Bible-toting inhabitants, the political and cultural establishment can’t now be surprised that so many of those people have turned around and said… well, it begins with F and ends with U.

The respectable set’s allergy to Trump is fundamentally an allergy to the idea of democracy itself. To them, Trump’s rise confirms the folly of asking the ignorant, the everyday, the non-subscribers to the New York Times, to decide on important political matters. They’re explicit about this now. In the run-up to election day, big-name commentators wondered out loud if democracy is all it’s cracked up to be. Trump’s ascendancy showed we need better checks and balances on ‘the passions of the mob’, said Andrew Sullivan. We should ‘cool and restrain [these] temporary populist passions’, he said, and refuse to allow ‘feeling, emotion’ to override ‘reasoned deliberation’. The little folks only feel and wail, you see, and it’s down to the grown-ups in the system to think coolly on their behalf.

Elsewhere, a writer for the New York Times asked Americans to consider installing a monarchy, which could rise above the ‘toxic partisanship’ of party politics — that is, above open, swirling, demos-stuffed political debate. In a new book called ‘Against Democracy’ — says it all — Georgetown philosopher Jason Brennan argues for an epistocracy, an ‘aristocracy of the wise’, who might decide political matters for those of us who are ‘low information’ (ie. stupid). This echoes the anti-democratic turn of liberals in the 2000s, when it was argued that daft, Bush-backing Americans increasingly made decisions, ‘not with their linear, logical left brain, but with their lizard, more emotional right brain’, in Arianna Huffington’s words. Such vile contempt for the political, democratic capacities of the ordinary person has been in great evidence following Trump’s win — across Twitter and in apocalypse-tinged instant responses — and it is likely to intensify. Anti-Trump will morph more explicitly into anti-democracy.

If this all sounds familiar, that’s because it’s the same kind of pleb-fearing horror that greeted the Brexit result four months ago. ‘Why elections are bad for democracy’, a headline in the Guardian said. The people are deluded and it is the task of those with ‘reason and expertise’ to ‘un-delude’ them, said a writer for Foreign Policy. ‘What if democracy doesn’t work? What if it never has and never will?’, wondered a pained George Monbiot. Boom. That’s it. The secret and not-so-secret cry of the elites and the experts and the observers over both Brexit and Trump is precisely that: ‘What if democracy doesn’t work?’ It’s not so much Trump they fear as the system that allowed him to get to the White House: that pesky, ridiculous system where we must ask ordinary people — shudder — what they think should happen in the nation.

The anti-Brexit anti-democrats claimed they were merely opposed to using rough, simplistic referendums to decide on huge matters. That kind of democracy is too direct, they said. Yet now they’re raging over the election of Trump via a far more complicated, tempered democratic system. That’s because — and I know this is strong, but I’m sure it’s correct — it is democracy itself that they hate. Not referendums, not Ukip’s blather, not only direct democracy, but democracy as an idea. Against democracy — so many of them are now. It is the engagement of the throng in political life that they fear. It is the people — ordinary, working, non-PhD-holding people — whom they dread and disdain. It is what got Trump to the White House — the right of all adults, even the dumb ones, to decide about politics — that gives them sleepless nights

This nasty, reactionary turn against democracy by so many of the "well-educated" both explains the victory of Trump, which neatly doubles up as a slap in the face of the establishment, and confirms why democracy is more important today than it has ever been. Because it really would be folly, madness in fact, to let an elite that so little understands ordinary people, and in fact loathes them, to run society unilaterally. Now that would be dangerous, more dangerous than Trump.

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Plato explains the rise of Trump - 1/20/2017 11:48:17 AM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

The respectable set’s allergy to Trump is fundamentally an allergy to the idea of democracy itself. To them, Trump’s rise confirms the folly of asking the ignorant, the everyday, the non-subscribers to the New York Times, to decide on important political matters. They’re explicit about this now. In the run-up to election day, big-name commentators wondered out loud if democracy is all it’s cracked up to be. Trump’s ascendancy showed we need better checks and balances on ‘the passions of the mob’, said Andrew Sullivan. We should ‘cool and restrain [these] temporary populist passions’, he said, and refuse to allow ‘feeling, emotion’ to override ‘reasoned deliberation’. The little folks only feel and wail, you see, and it’s down to the grown-ups in the system to think coolly on their behalf.

This is an odd argument to advance about the 2016 election, given that a truly democratic result would have led to a new Clinton Administration. HRC, after all, got three million more votes.

Indeed, our right-wing brethren have been quick to tell us that the U.S. is a republic not a democracy, hence our clinging to the Electoral College. The EC specifically does what the Spectator author sneers at: entrust the choice of president to a small, theoretically informed group.

As Hamilton wrote, "It was equally desirable, that the immediate election should be made by men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station, and acting under circumstances favorable to deliberation, and to a judicious combination of all the reasons and inducements which were proper to govern their choice. A small number of persons, selected by their fellow-citizens from the general mass, will be most likely to possess the information and discernment requisite to such complicated investigations" (Federalist 68).

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2 3 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> Plato explains the rise of Trump Page: [1] 2 3 4 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109