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Eliot Cohen: A "Testing Time" for Conservatives - 1/30/2017 8:39:14 AM   
dcnovice


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A conservative foreign policy wonk and former Condoleezza Rice adviser, Eliot Cohen isn't my usual political neighbor. That makes the Atlantic essay he published yesterday all the more striking.

Many conservative foreign-policy and national-security experts saw the dangers last spring and summer, which is why we signed letters denouncing not Trump’s policies but his temperament; not his program but his character.

We were right. And friends who urged us to tone it down, to make our peace with him, to stop saying as loudly as we could “this is abnormal,” to accommodate him, to show loyalty to the Republican Party, to think that he and his advisers could be tamed, were wrong. In an epic week beginning with a dark and divisive inaugural speech, extraordinary attacks on a free press, a visit to the CIA that dishonored a monument to anonymous heroes who paid the ultimate price, and now an attempt to ban selected groups of Muslims (including interpreters who served with our forces in Iraq and those with green cards, though not those from countries with Trump hotels, or from really indispensable states like Saudi Arabia), he has lived down to expectations.

Precisely because the problem is one of temperament and character, it will not get better. It will get worse, as power intoxicates Trump and those around him.

* * *

For the community of conservative thinkers and experts, and more importantly, conservative politicians, this is a testing time. Either you stand up for your principles and for what you know is decent behavior, or you go down, if not now, then years from now, as a coward or opportunist. Your reputation will never recover, nor should it.

* * *

This is one of those clarifying moments in American history, and like most such, it came upon us unawares, although historians in later years will be able to trace the deep and the contingent causes that brought us to this day. There is nothing to fear in this fact; rather, patriots should embrace it. The story of the United States is, as Lincoln put it, a perpetual story of “a rebirth of freedom” and not just its inheritance from the founding generation.

* * *

Trump, in one spectacular week, has already shown himself one of the worst of our presidents, who has no regard for the truth (indeed a contempt for it), whose patriotism is a belligerent nationalism, whose prior public service lay in avoiding both the draft and taxes, who does not know the Constitution, does not read and therefore does not understand our history, and who, at his moment of greatest success, obsesses about approval ratings, how many people listened to him on the Mall, and enemies.

* * *

There was nothing unanticipated in this first disturbing week of the Trump administration. It will not get better. Americans should therefore steel themselves, and hold their representatives to account. Those in a position to take a stand should do so, and those who are not should lay the groundwork for a better day. There is nothing great about the America that Trump thinks he is going to make; but in the end, it is the greatness of America that will stop him.


https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/01/a-clarifying-moment-in-american-history/514868/

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE
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RE: Eliot Cohen: A "Testing Time" for Conserv... - 1/30/2017 8:50:51 AM   
Musicmystery


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Waiting for GOP Congress to find its sense, its soul, its spine, whatever it takes, and realize they have to hand off to Pence.

The only question should be whether under the 25th Amendment or via impeachment.

This is not America, and this is not our values or our Constitution.

Until then, I hope the ACLU continues enjoying unprecedented financial donations and support.

(in reply to dcnovice)
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RE: Eliot Cohen: A "Testing Time" for Conserv... - 1/30/2017 8:54:07 AM   
DaddySatyr


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Not worth the fucking effort

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 1/30/2017 8:57:30 AM >


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Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

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RE: Eliot Cohen: A "Testing Time" for Conserv... - 1/30/2017 8:56:39 AM   
heavyblinker


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A great deal of people on the right are so mindlessly partisan that they will defend anything that Trump does simply because he didn't run as a Democrat... but I am frankly shocked at the passivity being displayed by the people who know what's up. People are writing and talking and protesting and telling other people to do things... but nobody seems to be taking steps to prevent the inevitable disaster.

I keep hearing that the job itself is going to force Trump to be a better person, or that the system won't allow him to do as much damage as everyone fears-- but why exactly do we need to take that chance? Is there even a single person in the US who doesn't think Pence should take over immediately?

I used to think assassination would be bad, but now I'm not so sure. One person loses his life so the world can be a safer place? Is this even something we need to think about?

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RE: Eliot Cohen: A "Testing Time" for Conserv... - 1/30/2017 9:31:26 AM   
lovmuffin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Not worth the fucking effort


Exactly, these guys will be going spastic for the next 8 years. You can't reason with these whack jobs. Every time Trump does something, the radical jihad libtards are going to keep coming out with the same old crap. I can hardley wait till Trump announces who we're going to get for the SCOTUS.

< Message edited by lovmuffin -- 1/30/2017 9:40:18 AM >


_____________________________

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RE: Eliot Cohen: A "Testing Time" for Conserv... - 1/30/2017 9:32:36 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:


I can hardley wait till Trump announces who we're going to get for the SCOUTS.

are you saying nutsuckers are molesting boy scouts now?

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 1/30/2017 9:36:25 AM >


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RE: Eliot Cohen: A "Testing Time" for Conserv... - 1/30/2017 9:33:21 AM   
BoscoX


Posts: 11330
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Not worth the fucking effort


Exactly, these guys will be going spastic for the next 8 years. You can't reason with these whack jobs. Every time Trump does something, the radical jihad libtards are going to keep coming out with the same old crap. I can hardley wait till Trump announces who we're going to get for the SCOUTS.


Wait until the Republicans announce that they are following the Dem's lead, and are taking the SC vote nuclear

Nothing drives them more insane, than for us to use those things that were a part of their plan to begin with

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RE: Eliot Cohen: A "Testing Time" for Conserv... - 1/30/2017 9:39:37 AM   
lovmuffin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

I used to think assassination would be bad, but now I'm not so sure. One person loses his life so the world can be a safer place? Is this even something we need to think about?


I used to think if libtards assassinated themselves it would be a bad thing but now I'm not so sure. A bunch of dead libtards so the world can be a better place? This is something you should think about.


_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to heavyblinker)
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RE: Eliot Cohen: A "Testing Time" for Conserv... - 1/30/2017 9:41:29 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

I used to think assassination would be bad, but now I'm not so sure. One person loses his life so the world can be a safer place? Is this even something we need to think about?

Yes, it's something to fucking think about. What the hell is the matter with you? First of all, you can't predict the future. It's at best just a considered guess. Second of all, your proposed victim's crimes are ideological. If you seriously think that your differing ideology and dubious prophetic ability constitute grounds for murder, then you can consider it official: You are one sick motherfucker, and people like you will do more damage to America than you could ever imagine Trump doing.

K.



< Message edited by Kirata -- 1/30/2017 9:44:01 AM >

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RE: Eliot Cohen: A "Testing Time" for Conserv... - 1/30/2017 9:43:07 AM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

I used to think assassination would be bad, but now I'm not so sure. One person loses his life so the world can be a safer place? Is this even something we need to think about?


I used to think if libtards assassinated themselves it would be a bad thing but now I'm not so sure. A bunch of dead libtards so the world can be a better place? This is something you should think about.



The difference here is that 'libtards' don't have any real power... you just hate them.

(in reply to lovmuffin)
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RE: Eliot Cohen: A "Testing Time" for Conserv... - 1/30/2017 9:44:46 AM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Not worth the fucking effort


Exactly, these guys will be going spastic for the next 8 years. You can't reason with these whack jobs. Every time Trump does something, the radical jihad libtards are going to keep coming out with the same old crap. I can hardley wait till Trump announces who we're going to get for the SCOUTS.


Wait until the Republicans announce that they are following the Dem's lead, and are taking the SC vote nuclear

Nothing drives them more insane, than for us to use those things that were a part of their plan to begin with



I'm anticipating the moment. Don't ya just love the smell of libtards spazzin out in the morning.

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to BoscoX)
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RE: Eliot Cohen: A "Testing Time" for Conserv... - 1/30/2017 9:45:38 AM   
BoscoX


Posts: 11330
Joined: 12/10/2016
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

I used to think assassination would be bad, but now I'm not so sure. One person loses his life so the world can be a safer place? Is this even something we need to think about?


I used to think if libtards assassinated themselves it would be a bad thing but now I'm not so sure. A bunch of dead libtards so the world can be a better place? This is something you should think about.



Some of them died on a freeway recently, where they were forcing traffic to stop and back up for miles

A few of them were hit and they died, six of them I think

I posted a thread about it. Didn't gloat, didn't cheer it, just matter-of-fact. But the butt hurt goes on, "How could I" and all that

This was in the midst of their many acts of violence toward Trump supporters at rallies etc.

I am really supposed to have feelings for them?

_____________________________

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RE: Eliot Cohen: A "Testing Time" for Conserv... - 1/30/2017 9:47:30 AM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
Yes, it's something to fucking think about. What the hell is the matter with you? First of all, you can't predict the future. It's at best just a considered guess. Second of all, your proposed victim's crimes are ideological. If you seriously think that your differing ideology and dubious prophetic ability constitutes sufficient grounds to justify murder, then you can consider it official: You are one sick motherfucker, and people like you will do more damage to America than you can even imagine
Trump doing.


Trump can do more damage than anyone else in the world right now. It isn't a prophecy, it's a likelihood... practically a certainty. I know you love the idea of reducing it to 'ideological differences', but killing one person to save millions isn't sick or even logically unsound. It isn't totally about his 'ideology', vile as it is -- it's also about his incompetence and his temperament.

I disagree with Pence too-- A LOT.

But I don't want him to be assassinated, and I think he would be a competent leader who at the very least wouldn't cause the same degree of chaos.

< Message edited by heavyblinker -- 1/30/2017 9:59:29 AM >

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RE: Eliot Cohen: A "Testing Time" for Conserv... - 1/30/2017 9:47:32 AM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

I used to think assassination would be bad, but now I'm not so sure. One person loses his life so the world can be a safer place? Is this even something we need to think about?


I used to think if libtards assassinated themselves it would be a bad thing but now I'm not so sure. A bunch of dead libtards so the world can be a better place? This is something you should think about.



The difference here is that 'libtards' don't have any real power... you just hate them.



Silly libtard, I don't hate anyone. I'm just mocking your complete and utterly stupid post.

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to heavyblinker)
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RE: Eliot Cohen: A "Testing Time" for Conserv... - 1/30/2017 9:49:44 AM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
Silly libtard, I don't hate anyone. I'm just mocking your complete and utterly stupid post.


Oh right, 'libtard' is a term of endearment and calling for mass genicode based on ideology just so you can feel like you've 'won' is the same as calling for a single death in order to prevent an inevitable catastrophe.

Your posts are stupid and you're also embarrassingly inarticulate.

(in reply to lovmuffin)
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RE: Eliot Cohen: A "Testing Time" for Conserv... - 1/30/2017 9:53:28 AM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

I used to think assassination would be bad, but now I'm not so sure. One person loses his life so the world can be a safer place? Is this even something we need to think about?


I used to think if libtards assassinated themselves it would be a bad thing but now I'm not so sure. A bunch of dead libtards so the world can be a better place? This is something you should think about.



Some of them died on a freeway recently, where they were forcing traffic to stop and back up for miles

A few of them were hit and they died, six of them I think

I posted a thread about it. Didn't gloat, didn't cheer it, just matter-of-fact. But the butt hurt goes on, "How could I" and all that

This was in the midst of their many acts of violence toward Trump supporters at rallies etc.

I am really supposed to have feelings for them?


I read the thread and I wasn't gloating either although I couldn't help noticing the delicious irony.

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to BoscoX)
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RE: Eliot Cohen: A "Testing Time" for Conserv... - 1/30/2017 10:02:52 AM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
Silly libtard, I don't hate anyone. I'm just mocking your complete and utterly stupid post.


Oh right, 'libtard' is a term of endearment and calling for mass genicode based on ideology just so you can feel like you've 'won' is the same as calling for a single death in order to prevent an inevitable catastrophe.

Your posts are stupid and you're also embarrassingly inarticulate.


Mass genocide, inevitable catastrophe? You must have fallen off yer high horse and bumped yer libtard head. I'm not calling for anything. Like I said, I'm just making fun of your stupid post. Yer the one who went off the deep end hoping for a presidential assassination.

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to heavyblinker)
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RE: Eliot Cohen: A "Testing Time" for Conserv... - 1/30/2017 10:06:12 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Yes, it's something to fucking think about. What the hell is the matter with you? First of all, you can't predict the future. It's at best just a considered guess. Second of all, your proposed victim's crimes are ideological. If you seriously think that your differing ideology and dubious prophetic ability constitutes sufficient grounds to justify murder, then you can consider it official: You are one sick motherfucker, and people like you will do more damage to America than you can even imagine
Trump doing.

Trump can do more damage than anyone else in the world right now. It isn't a prophecy, it's a likelihood... practically a certainty.

Paranoid bullshit and fortune-telling.

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

killing one person to save millions isn't sick or even logically unsound.

It's murder, you sick motherfucker.

K.

(in reply to heavyblinker)
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RE: Eliot Cohen: A "Testing Time" for Conserv... - 1/30/2017 10:07:11 AM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
Mass genocide, inevitable catastrophe? You must have fallen off yer high horse and bumped yer libtard head. I'm not calling for anything. Like I said, I'm just making fun of your stupid post. Yer the one who went off the deep end hoping for a presidential assassination.


Oh right I forgot that we're all supposed to love him and agree with everything he says.

Assassinating Trump would be about as horrible as assassinating Hitler circa 1936... just because he's 'on our side' doesn't mean anyone should ever lower themselves to the level where they simply tolerate and accept this shit.

(in reply to lovmuffin)
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RE: Eliot Cohen: A "Testing Time" for Conserv... - 1/30/2017 10:09:31 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

Wait until the Republicans announce that they are following the Dem's lead, and are taking the SC vote nuclear

Nothing drives them more insane, than for us to use those things that were a part of their plan to begin with



Yeah, the Dimocrats are finding out that a lot of their chickens are coming home to roost.

They were warned that "the nuclear option" was a bad idea, but it was good for them, at the time. Now, it's an evil fucking thing that has to be destroyed.

They were warned about Ol' Dumbo Ears, circumventing the congress with unconstitutional EOs. Now, they're pitching a fit about EOs that belay the original, unconstitutional ones.

They've been warned about the murderous mother-fuckers that are hell-bent on "wiping out the infidels". I hope they wake up, soon.

Years ago (I think it was over a decade ago), there was an e-mail making the rounds about a speech given by a Capt. Ouimette. I thought the name seemed "fake" (It's pronounced: "We met" and it seemed ... made up). I did some research and found out the Capt. and the speech existed. He gave some history about the trouble in the Middle East and some ideas for what we needed to do.

When I tracked him down, we spoke on the phone for about an hour. I asked for his permission to re-post the speech and if he would answer some questions and allow me to post that interview. He agreed, as long as I didn't use an "interwebz" version of the speech. I had to use the one that he sent me. He asked me if I would give him editorial review before I posted the interview. I told him that it was ONLY going to be the questions and answers. Any "framing" or commentary would be handled in a separate article.

Anyway, I'm going to have to dig that speech up. It was easily ten years ago and I think it might have even been 15 years.



Michael


_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to BoscoX)
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