RE: This is embarrassing :(

RE: This is embarrassing :( (Full Version)

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tamaka -> RE: This is embarrassing :( (2/14/2017 11:01:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant either Tolerance and flexibility? Is that what the Muslims were showing during the New Year's sexual assaults in Germany? Their flexibility? Were the Muslims living in Britain showing their tolerance of the people who let them in when they demonstrated against the British military on Armistice Day and deliberately increased their noise level during the two minutes of silence for Britain's war-dead? I don't understand why you are proposing that we should allow extremist Islamists or groups such as IS and AQ to dictate our moral and ethical standards, which is the substance of your position above. To allow these groups to determine our standards of morals and behaviour is to hand them victory on a platter. If we want to oppose and defeat these malignant forces, then the last thing we should so is to allow them to set our moral ethical and behavioural standards. If we are correct in believing that we have higher moral and ethical standards than terrorist and fundamentalist groups, then the obvious place is display those higher standards is when we stand in opposition to those groups. That means we set our own standards, and the standards and actions of extremist Islamists and groups such as IS and AQ are actually irrelevant to setting those standards. That means, for a start, emphasising values such as tolerance, flexibility, diversity and respect for international law, the precise opposite of your position. You really need to think this through and stop your knee jerk reactions - they are self defeating. And you really need to stop and think about what exactly might happen while we're being tolerant of everyone. Would you suggest to the German women that were assaulted...those that were raped...that ALL the men that participated were Islamic extremists and that the majority of Muslims living amongst these women are worthy of toleration and that these tolerant Muslims DONT look down on the sexual freedom of Western women? You really need to stop reacting so emotionally, so thoughtlessly. It's really very simple - who determines the standards and values to which we adhere and promote? Us? Or the worst of Islamist extremists? From where I sit there is only one answer - WE determine our standards and values. I am amazed that you choose to persist with disagreeing with this straightforward and self evident proposition. Such a sweet naive child.

MrRodgers -> RE: This is embarrassing :( (2/14/2017 11:10:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoscoX quote: ORIGINAL: BoscoX quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker A lot of the 'fawning' was more along the lines of 'Hillary sucks but we're absolutely terrifed of Trump', not 'Hillary is great!'. It's the same tired "fawning" that the media has been doing every day for years and years. Republicans are Hitler, Democrats are going to stop the rise of the oceans, end racism, make everything free, and the Muslims will all love us." End wars forever, too. Everyone will love each other Oh no, we can't have that no sireee. Wars are way too profitable and they are paid for by the only organization that has the money and can take it or borrow it...govt. War is the west's gift that keeps on giving.

heavyblinker -> RE: This is embarrassing :( (2/15/2017 3:00:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant Tolerance and flexibility? Is that what the Muslims were showing during the New Year's sexual assaults in Germany? Their flexibility? Were the Muslims living in Britain showing their tolerance of the people who let them in when they demonstrated against the British military on Armistice Day and deliberately increased their noise level during the two minutes of silence for Britain's war-dead? Oh right and sexual assault never happened before the Muslims arrived. It obviously happened because of their religion and not because they are individuals who are responsible for their own decisions. And you don't lose the right to criticize, disagree with or even protest certain aspects of a culture or actions of a government simply because you're living in the host country. I bet you think you believe in freedom of expression too... LOL.

heavyblinker -> RE: This is embarrassing :( (2/15/2017 3:06:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka Hugs and Kisses for Everyone! XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO WE LOVE IRAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was about to say that your attitude towards Iranians is a mirror of Iranians' attitude towards you, but then I realized that most Iranians are actually intelligent enough to tell the difference between governments and citizens, and stereotypes and individuals.

WhoreMods -> RE: This is embarrassing :( (2/15/2017 3:48:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka Hugs and Kisses for Everyone! XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO WE LOVE IRAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was about to say that your attitude towards Iranians is a mirror of Iranians' attitude towards you, but then I realized that most Iranians are actually intelligent enough to tell the difference between governments and citizens, and stereotypes and individuals. The really interesting thing about that Axis of Evil stuff about Iran, Korea and the like is that it stopped and reversed the move towards increasing secularisation of Iran as a society that had been building up for the decade since America's falling out with their neighbours in Iraq. Being vilified by that halfwit was the best thing that could have happened to the Ayatollah and his gimp at the time, as it did a lot to convince elements of the population that the theocracy were right and the great satan did still hate them. Somehow I doubt that's quite the result that was being hoped for.

CreativeDominant -> RE: This is embarrassing :( (2/15/2017 4:37:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant either Tolerance and flexibility? Is that what the Muslims were showing during the New Year's sexual assaults in Germany? Their flexibility? Were the Muslims living in Britain showing their tolerance of the people who let them in when they demonstrated against the British military on Armistice Day and deliberately increased their noise level during the two minutes of silence for Britain's war-dead? I don't understand why you are proposing that we should allow extremist Islamists or groups such as IS and AQ to dictate our moral and ethical standards, which is the substance of your position above. To allow these groups to determine our standards of morals and behaviour is to hand them victory on a platter. If we want to oppose and defeat these malignant forces, then the last thing we should so is to allow them to set our moral ethical and behavioural standards. If we are correct in believing that we have higher moral and ethical standards than terrorist and fundamentalist groups, then the obvious place is display those higher standards is when we stand in opposition to those groups. That means we set our own standards, and the standards and actions of extremist Islamists and groups such as IS and AQ are actually irrelevant to setting those standards. That means, for a start, emphasising values such as tolerance, flexibility, diversity and respect for international law, the precise opposite of your position. You really need to think this through and stop your knee jerk reactions - they are self defeating. And you really need to stop and think about what exactly might happen while we're being tolerant of everyone. Would you suggest to the German women that were assaulted...those that were raped...that ALL the men that participated were Islamic extremists and that the majority of Muslims living amongst these women are worthy of toleration and that these tolerant Muslims DONT look down on the sexual freedom of Western women? You really need to stop reacting so emotionally, so thoughtlessly. It's really very simple - who determines the standards and values to which we adhere and promote? Us? Or the worst of Islamist extremists? From where I sit there is only one answer - WE determine our standards and values. I am amazed that you choose to persist with disagreeing with this straightforward and self evident proposition. Answer this, please. Since you keep mentioning extremists, were the rapists and assaulters extremists? Is that proven or just your viewpoint? Because when they were trying to get into Germany, they were just "poor refugees".

CreativeDominant -> RE: This is embarrassing :( (2/15/2017 4:50:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant Tolerance and flexibility? Is that what the Muslims were showing during the New Year's sexual assaults in Germany? Their flexibility? Were the Muslims living in Britain showing their tolerance of the people who let them in when they demonstrated against the British military on Armistice Day and deliberately increased their noise level during the two minutes of silence for Britain's war-dead? Oh right and sexual assault never happened before the Muslims arrived. It obviously happened because of their religion and not because they are individuals who are responsible for their own decisions. And you don't lose the right to criticize, disagree with or even protest certain aspects of a culture or actions of a government simply because you're living in the host country. I bet you think you believe in freedom of expression too... LOL. I have no problem with freedom of expression. I find protesting a country that took them in a sure sign of ingratitude and intolerant. Self-expression that they're entitled to in their new country that they were not allowed in their country of origin. Like most smug people, you tend to look at any expression of disagreement with your viewpoint as wrong and not taking in the bigger view. Sure, sexual assault happened before the Museums got to Germany. Where's your proof that these assaults were all due to hormones gone wild? Have you never heard a Muslim decry the decadence and 'easy, loose morals' of the West? I'd be willing to bet you've decried those Christians who've proclaimed it.

Musicmystery -> RE: This is embarrassing :( (2/15/2017 5:17:04 AM)
Man, talk about smug! There's a WORLD of difference between "protesting your country" and protesting a policy, a corrupt administration or official, or actions that violate the Constitution. That's WHY THIS COUNTRY GUARANTEES that right in the Constitution itself. You want a simplistic "do what we say in lockstep or leave" country, there are a lot to choose from. Try Venezuela. Or the Soviet Union. North Korea would appeal to you especially. Don't forgot Iran! You're wrapping yourself in bullshit, not the flag.

heavyblinker -> RE: This is embarrassing :( (2/15/2017 5:36:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant I have no problem with freedom of expression. I find protesting a country that took them in a sure sign of ingratitude and intolerant. Self-expression that they're entitled to in their new country that they were not allowed in their country of origin. The idea that a country's identity is only reflected in its capacity for war is insane, and even more insane is the idea that protesting a war is the same as protesting your own country. You don't seem to care about the reasons why they were protesting... I don't know anything about it, but I'm willing to bet it's connected to the fact that so many people have lost their lives and homes in several Muslim-majority nations. quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant Like most smug people, you tend to look at any expression of disagreement with your viewpoint as wrong and not taking in the bigger view. Sure, sexual assault happened before the Museums got to Germany. Where's your proof that these assaults were all due to hormones gone wild? Have you never heard a Muslim decry the decadence and 'easy, loose morals' of the West? I'd be willing to bet you've decried those Christians who've proclaimed it. I have to prove it was due to hormones but you don't have to prove it was due to Islam? Did I even claim it was due to hormones in the first place? If someone is decrying decadence and sexually assaulting people, I would say that's really fucked up... but so what? Young white girls are still more likely to be sexually assaulted by some drunk white frat boy than a refugee.

CreativeDominant -> RE: This is embarrassing :( (2/15/2017 6:49:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant I have no problem with freedom of expression. I find protesting a country that took them in a sure sign of ingratitude and intolerant. Self-expression that they're entitled to in their new country that they were not allowed in their country of origin. The idea that a country's identity is only reflected in its capacity for war is insane, and even more insane is the idea that protesting a war is the same as protesting your own country. You don't seem to care about the reasons why they were protesting... I don't know anything about it, but I'm willing to bet it's connected to the fact that so many people have lost their lives and homes in several Muslim-majority nations. quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant Like most smug people, you tend to look at any expression of disagreement with your viewpoint as wrong and not taking in the bigger view. Sure, sexual assault happened before the Museums got to Germany. Where's your proof that these assaults were all due to hormones gone wild? Have you never heard a Muslim decry the decadence and 'easy, loose morals' of the West? I'd be willing to bet you've decried those Christians who've proclaimed it. I have to prove it was due to hormones but you don't have to prove it was due to Islam? Did I even claim it was due to hormones in the first place? If someone is decrying decadence and sexually assaulting people, I would say that's really fucked up... but so what? Young white girls are still more likely to be sexually assaulted by some drunk white frat boy than a refugee. So...you're saying England should be grateful that these poor refugees fled to England for SURVIVAL and tolerant of their INTOLERANCE for a day of commemoration. Note that I've never said they aren't allowed their self-expression...as I said, I just view their ingratitude and intolerance for what it is. As for the assaults and the rapes on New Year's...why don't you try telling the German women that it happened to that they need to be tolerant? Try telling them how amazing it is that it wasn't a drunken white frat boy that raped them. I am not asking you to prove anything. I'm just asking you what makes you so sure the rapes and assaults weren't due to Islamic attitudes?

CreativeDominant -> RE: This is embarrassing :( (2/15/2017 6:56:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Man, talk about smug! There's a WORLD of difference between "protesting your country" and protesting a policy, a corrupt administration or official, or actions that violate the Constitution. That's WHY THIS COUNTRY GUARANTEES that right in the Constitution itself. You want a simplistic "do what we say in lockstep or leave" country, there are a lot to choose from. Try Venezuela. Or the Soviet Union. North Korea would appeal to you especially. Don't forgot Iran! You're wrapping yourself in bullshit, not the flag. I'm not wrapping myself in anything. I served in the military with the ideas of protecting the rights accorded by the Constitution. That doesn't mean that I can't look at something like fleeing to another country for your survival...fleeing to a place where you can live rather than die and then, disrespecting the traditions of the country that saved your sorry ass rather than trying to assimilate...disrespectful and intolerant. Not illegal.

Lucylastic -> RE: This is embarrassing :( (2/15/2017 6:59:01 AM)
Because rape and assaults happen to occur every day in every country, but you ignore it. Unless its mooselambs

CreativeDominant -> RE: This is embarrassing :( (2/15/2017 7:16:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Because rape and assaults happen to occur every day in every country, but you ignore it. Unless its mooselambs En masse? And no, I don't ignore it. I've worked with a group in my town that helps rape and abuse victims. But...nice deflection from the topic of tolerance that I was replying to.

tweakabelle -> RE: This is embarrassing :( (2/15/2017 7:21:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant either Tolerance and flexibility? Is that what the Muslims were showing during the New Year's sexual assaults in Germany? Their flexibility? Were the Muslims living in Britain showing their tolerance of the people who let them in when they demonstrated against the British military on Armistice Day and deliberately increased their noise level during the two minutes of silence for Britain's war-dead? I don't understand why you are proposing that we should allow extremist Islamists or groups such as IS and AQ to dictate our moral and ethical standards, which is the substance of your position above. To allow these groups to determine our standards of morals and behaviour is to hand them victory on a platter. If we want to oppose and defeat these malignant forces, then the last thing we should so is to allow them to set our moral ethical and behavioural standards. If we are correct in believing that we have higher moral and ethical standards than terrorist and fundamentalist groups, then the obvious place is display those higher standards is when we stand in opposition to those groups. That means we set our own standards, and the standards and actions of extremist Islamists and groups such as IS and AQ are actually irrelevant to setting those standards. That means, for a start, emphasising values such as tolerance, flexibility, diversity and respect for international law, the precise opposite of your position. You really need to think this through and stop your knee jerk reactions - they are self defeating. And you really need to stop and think about what exactly might happen while we're being tolerant of everyone. Would you suggest to the German women that were assaulted...those that were raped...that ALL the men that participated were Islamic extremists and that the majority of Muslims living amongst these women are worthy of toleration and that these tolerant Muslims DONT look down on the sexual freedom of Western women? You really need to stop reacting so emotionally, so thoughtlessly. It's really very simple - who determines the standards and values to which we adhere and promote? Us? Or the worst of Islamist extremists? From where I sit there is only one answer - WE determine our standards and values. I am amazed that you choose to persist with disagreeing with this straightforward and self evident proposition. Answer this, please. Since you keep mentioning extremists, were the rapists and assaulters extremists? Is that proven or just your viewpoint? Because when they were trying to get into Germany, they were just "poor refugees". I can't believe that you are seriously suggesting that the West allows its standards and values to be determined by a tiny group of rapists and extremist Islamists. I was under the impression that values and standards were a central issue in the conflict the West has with groups like IS and AQ. You are insisting that we frame our response to these challenges according to the standards of Islamist extremists and rapists. That is insanity. Our behaviour, our standards and values are issues that we determine for ourselves and the activities of rapists and Islamist extremists are irrelevant to those determinations. You are so emotionally over wrought that you cannot see the sheer insanity of your approach. The idea of sub contracting determination of our values and standards to groups of medieval thugs and rapists is beyond appalling, not to mention obviously and utterly self defeating.

BoscoX -> RE: This is embarrassing :( (2/15/2017 7:21:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Because rape and assaults happen to occur every day in every country, but you ignore it. Unless its mooselambs En masse? And no, I don't ignore it. I've worked with a group in my town that helps rape and abuse victims. But...nice deflection from the topic of tolerance that I was replying to. Ask Lara Logan about the Muslim "Rape Game" called 'Taharrush'

mnottertail -> RE: This is embarrassing :( (2/15/2017 7:21:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoscoX quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Because rape and assaults happen to occur every day in every country, but you ignore it. Unless its mooselambs En masse? And no, I don't ignore it. I've worked with a group in my town that helps rape and abuse victims. But...nice deflection from the topic of tolerance that I was replying to. Ask Lara Logan about the Muslim "Rape Game" called 'Taharrush' Ask america about the native rape game, cowboys and indians.

Musicmystery -> RE: This is embarrassing :( (2/15/2017 7:32:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Man, talk about smug! There's a WORLD of difference between "protesting your country" and protesting a policy, a corrupt administration or official, or actions that violate the Constitution. That's WHY THIS COUNTRY GUARANTEES that right in the Constitution itself. You want a simplistic "do what we say in lockstep or leave" country, there are a lot to choose from. Try Venezuela. Or the Soviet Union. North Korea would appeal to you especially. Don't forgot Iran! You're wrapping yourself in bullshit, not the flag. I'm not wrapping myself in anything. I served in the military with the ideas of protecting the rights accorded by the Constitution. That doesn't mean that I can't look at something like fleeing to another country for your survival...fleeing to a place where you can live rather than die and then, disrespecting the traditions of the country that saved your sorry ass rather than trying to assimilate...disrespectful and intolerant. Not illegal. And not what the US Constitution protects. Frankly, you aren't clear on what you fought for -- it clearly was not the US Constitution. And that's what it's supposed to do -- protect those annoying little rights from self-righteous demagogues.

BoscoX -> RE: This is embarrassing :( (2/15/2017 7:46:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery And not what the US Constitution protects. Frankly, you aren't clear on what you fought for -- it clearly was not the US Constitution. And that's what it's supposed to do -- protect those annoying little rights from self-righteous demagogues. You are (as always) confused. That someone has a "right" to do something, doesn't mean that it IS right to do it. Nor does it mean that CD has to like or accept their uncivilized behavior without criticizing it to whatever extent he pleases

Musicmystery -> RE: This is embarrassing :( (2/15/2017 7:48:37 AM)
That's ridiculous even for you. If you have a right, but not the right to do it, you don't have a right. CD doesn't have to "like" anything. But here's the deal -- the Constituition is still the law.

BoscoX -> RE: This is embarrassing :( (2/15/2017 7:50:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery That's ridiculous even for you. If you have a right, but not the right to do it, you don't have a right. CD doesn't have to "like" anything. But here's the deal -- the Constituition is still the law. [sm=happy-smiley58.gif] You are SO lost SO clueless...

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