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RE: Trump administration chaos--Michael Flynn resigns! - 2/14/2017 8:24:03 AM   
heavyblinker


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How is any of that equivalent to undermining your own government in favor of a foreign autocracy?

(in reply to BoscoX)
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RE: Trump administration chaos--Michael Flynn resigns! - 2/14/2017 8:27:46 AM   
heavyblinker


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BTW, spy agencies are now avoiding briefing the President of The United States on crucial intelligence because everything they tell him gets back to Russia!
This is not a big deal??

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RE: Trump administration chaos--Michael Flynn resigns! - 2/14/2017 8:34:01 AM   
BoscoX


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quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

BTW, spy agencies are now avoiding briefing the President of The United States on crucial intelligence because everything they tell him gets back to Russia!
This is not a big deal??



The reason is clear. So obvious, I don't know why you can't see it. You have to become even more hysterical, before anyone will take any of this seriously

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RE: Trump administration chaos--Michael Flynn resigns! - 2/14/2017 8:36:58 AM   
heavyblinker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

BTW, spy agencies are now avoiding briefing the President of The United States on crucial intelligence because everything they tell him gets back to Russia!
This is not a big deal??



The reason is clear. So obvious, I don't know why you can't see it. You have to become even more hysterical, before anyone will take any of this seriously


Oh right, it's because Trump hurt their feelings by publicly attacking their credibility.
Either that, or a liberal plot of some kind.

Are you fucking serious?

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RE: Trump administration chaos--Michael Flynn resigns! - 2/14/2017 8:55:58 AM   
BoscoX


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quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

BTW, spy agencies are now avoiding briefing the President of The United States on crucial intelligence because everything they tell him gets back to Russia!
This is not a big deal??



The reason is clear. So obvious, I don't know why you can't see it. You have to become even more hysterical, before anyone will take any of this seriously


Oh right, it's because Trump hurt their feelings by publicly attacking their credibility.
Either that, or a liberal plot of some kind.

Are you fucking serious?


I am as serious as a mother fucking heart attack. You really need to get even more hysterical, because everyone is just going about their daily lives totally unaware that any of this is happening

Here's what you can do - strip off all of your clothes and go running down the streets, banging on doors and spreading the word at the top of your lungs.

Got an air horn, illegal fireworks fireworks, or any other noise makers?

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RE: Trump administration chaos--Michael Flynn resigns! - 2/14/2017 8:57:48 AM   
heavyblinker


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I'm hysterical/insane because I'm repeating the content of an international news story.
Wow.

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RE: Trump administration chaos--Michael Flynn resigns! - 2/14/2017 1:21:01 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

I'm hysterical/insane because I'm repeating the content of anby the RMNJ international news story.
Wow.


Boscox:
quote:

am as serious as a mother fucking heart attack. You really need to get even more hysterical, because everyone is just going about their daily lives totally unaware that any of this is happening

A desperate attempt by a RWNJ to look away from the awful catastrophe coming down the track at the traitors in the White House.

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: Trump administration chaos--Michael Flynn resigns! - 2/14/2017 1:43:09 PM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

BTW, spy agencies are now avoiding briefing the President of The United States on crucial intelligence because everything they tell him gets back to Russia!
This is not a big deal??



The reason is clear. So obvious, I don't know why you can't see it. You have to become even more hysterical, before anyone will take any of this seriously


Oh right, it's because Trump hurt their feelings by publicly attacking their credibility.
Either that, or a liberal plot of some kind.

Are you fucking serious?


I am as serious as a mother fucking heart attack. You really need to get even more hysterical, because everyone is just going about their daily lives totally unaware that any of this is happening

Here's what you can do - strip off all of your clothes and go running down the streets, banging on doors and spreading the word at the top of your lungs.

Got an air horn, illegal fireworks fireworks, or any other noise makers?

Why dont you go felchgobble and pound your pud in your bathtub in the river?
http://www.collarchat.com/m_2865734/mpage_1/tm.htm#2865734

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RE: Trump administration chaos--Michael Flynn resigns! - 2/14/2017 1:55:26 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

Omg you are such a drama princess.



was thinking pretty much the same thing...

and I wonder how one man resigning is tantamount to "great disorder or confusion."


One resignation is not tantamount to "Great disorder and confusion" but if you add in the other crap of the past 3 weeks "Bowling Green anyone" you have the beginnings of a clusterfuck.

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Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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RE: Trump administration chaos--Michael Flynn resigns! - 2/14/2017 1:56:59 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


I am as serious as a mother fucking heart attack.


No, Comrade, you aren't. You are as much of a lying assed Putin/Trump supporter as a heart attack.

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 2/14/2017 1:57:09 PM >


_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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RE: Trump administration chaos--Michael Flynn resigns! - 2/14/2017 2:34:21 PM   
mnottertail


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http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/mike-flynn-timeline-his-rise-fall-russia-call-n720671

So, Comey knew about this, and kept it quiet just like he did Hillary, because he didnt want to affect the election.

Do I got that right you commie nutsuckers?

twist you worms, in the garish light of day.

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Trump administration chaos--Michael Flynn resigns! - 2/14/2017 2:50:38 PM   
BoscoX


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

Omg you are such a drama princess.



was thinking pretty much the same thing...

and I wonder how one man resigning is tantamount to "great disorder or confusion."


One resignation is not tantamount to "Great disorder and confusion" but if you add in the other crap of the past 3 weeks "Bowling Green anyone" you have the beginnings of a clusterfuck.


In all 57 states, too.

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RE: Trump administration chaos--Michael Flynn resigns! - 2/14/2017 4:26:31 PM   
Musicmystery


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That's quite a fantasy you've got going there.

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RE: Trump administration chaos--Michael Flynn resigns! - 2/14/2017 10:17:55 PM   
CreativeDominant


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Then...there is this perspective...

The United States is much better off without Michael Flynn serving as national security adviser. But no one should be cheering the way he was brought down.

The whole episode is evidence of the precipitous and ongoing collapse of America's democratic institutions — not a sign of their resiliency. Flynn's ouster was a soft coup (or political assassination) engineered by anonymous intelligence community bureaucrats. The results might be salutary, but this isn't the way a liberal democracy is supposed to function.

Unelected intelligence analysts work for the president, not the other way around. Far too many Trump critics appear not to care that these intelligence agents leaked highly sensitive information to the press — mostly because Trump critics are pleased with the result. "Finally," they say, "someone took a stand to expose collusion between the Russians and a senior aide to the president!" It is indeed important that someone took such a stand. But it matters greatly who that someone is and how they take their stand. Members of the unelected, unaccountable intelligence community are not the right someone, especially when they target a senior aide to the president by leaking anonymously to newspapers the content of classified phone intercepts, where the unverified, unsubstantiated information can inflict politically fatal damage almost instantaneously.

Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump
The real story here is why are there so many illegal leaks coming out of Washington? Will these leaks be happening as I deal on N.Korea etc?
7:28 AM - 14 Feb 2017
22,366 22,366 Retweets

President Trump was roundly mocked among liberals for that tweet. But he is, in many ways, correct. These leaks are an enormous problem. And in a less polarized context, they would be recognized immediately for what they clearly are: an effort to manipulate public opinion for the sake of achieving a desired political outcome. It's weaponized spin.

This doesn't mean the outcome was wrong. I have no interest in defending Flynn, who appears to be an atrocious manager prone to favoring absurd conspiracy theories over more traditional forms of intelligence. He is just about the last person who should be giving the president advice about foreign policy. And for all I know, Flynn did exactly what the anonymous intelligence community leakers allege — promised the Russian ambassador during the transition that the incoming Trump administration would back off on sanctions proposed by the outgoing Obama administration.

But no matter what Flynn did, it is simply not the role of the deep state to target a man working in one of the political branches of the government by dishing to reporters about information it has gathered clandestinely. It is the role of elected members of Congress to conduct public investigations of alleged wrongdoing by public officials.

What if Congress won't act? What if both the Senate and the House of Representatives are held by the same party as the president and members of both chambers are reluctant to cross a newly elected head of the executive branch who enjoys overwhelming approval of his party's voters? In such a situation — our situation — shouldn't we hope the deep state will rise up to act responsibly to take down a member of the administration who may have broken the law?

The answer is an unequivocal no.

In a liberal democracy, how things happen is often as important as what happens. Procedures matter. So do rules and public accountability. The chaotic, dysfunctional Trump White House is placing the entire system under enormous strain. That's bad. But the answer isn't to counter it with equally irregular acts of sabotage — or with a disinformation campaign waged by nameless civil servants toiling away in the surveillance state.

As Eli Lake of Bloomberg News put it in an important article following Flynn's resignation,

Normally, intercepts of U.S. officials and citizens are some of the most tightly held government secrets. This is for good reason. Selectively disclosing details of private conversations monitored by the FBI or NSA gives the permanent state the power to destroy reputations from the cloak of anonymity. This is what police states do.

Those cheering the deep state torpedoing of Flynn are saying, in effect, that a police state is perfectly fine so long as it helps to bring down Trump.

It is the role of Congress to investigate the president and those who work for him. If Congress resists doing its duty, out of a mixture of self-interest and cowardice, the American people have no choice but to try and hold the government's feet to the fire, demanding action with phone calls, protests, and, ultimately, votes. That is a democratic response to the failure of democracy.

Sitting back and letting shadowy, unaccountable agents of espionage do the job for us simply isn't an acceptable alternative.

Down that path lies the end of democracy in America.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
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RE: Trump administration chaos--Michael Flynn resigns! - 2/14/2017 10:59:29 PM   
tamaka


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How many people from the Muslim Brotherhood are working in the WH, etc.

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RE: Trump administration chaos--Michael Flynn resigns! - 2/14/2017 11:01:25 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


Talk about a new standard.....

quote:


The whole episode is evidence of the precipitous and ongoing collapse of America's democratic institutions — not a sign of their resiliency. Flynn's ouster was a soft coup (or political assassination) engineered by anonymous intelligence community bureaucrats. The results might be salutary, but this isn't the way a liberal democracy is supposed to function.


Unmitigated bullshit. Those intelligence community bureaucrats are just fine when they serve the right wing agenda but when that same right wing agenda gets caught with this is stuff...now it's a soft coup. Plus, we are no longer and have not been that great and glorious so-called liberal democracy for 40 years

quote:


Unelected intelligence analysts work for the president, not the other way around. Far too many Trump critics appear not to care that these intelligence agents leaked highly sensitive information to the press — mostly because Trump critics are pleased with the result. "Finally," they say, "someone took a stand to expose collusion between the Russians and a senior aide to the president!" It is indeed important that someone took such a stand. But it matters greatly who that someone is and how they take their stand. Members of the unelected, unaccountable intelligence community are not the right someone, especially when they target a senior aide to the president by leaking anonymously to newspapers the content of classified phone intercepts, where the unverified, unsubstantiated information can inflict politically fatal damage almost instantaneously.


Unelected intelligence analysts work for the people and are never to assess intel with politics or any favoritism in any way, or to modify any analysis to conform to any political agenda or favor any personnel.

quote:


What if Congress won't act? What if both the Senate and the House of Representatives are held by the same party as the president and members of both chambers are reluctant to cross a newly elected head of the executive branch who enjoys overwhelming approval of his party's voters? In such a situation our situation shouldn't we hope the deep state will rise up to act responsibly to take down a member of the administration who may have broken the law?


First, who gives a fuck if he has the support of republicans ? The repubs for 8 years didn't gove a flying fuck how much dem support Obama had and went after him tooth and nail the whole fucking time.

Just more ridiculous partisan spin. Just wait until the corporate elite get what they want out of this rent-seeking triad of all 3 branches. After that agenda is complete, treason will 'trump' profits and their agenda and we could see the repubs go after people in this admin. and...maybe even Trump. He is just another very useful idiot and unlike his predecessors, when he is no longer of use...could be gone.

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RE: Trump administration chaos--Michael Flynn resigns! - 2/15/2017 12:51:10 AM   
tweakabelle


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.... and the leaks continue to emerge drip by drip ....

It now transpires that the Thump campaign had "frequent" contacts with "Russian intelligence officials" during the election campaign despite specific denials by Thump himself, mouthpiece Spicer and KellyAnne "alternative facts"Conway:
"The Russian influence scandal engulfing the White House deepened dramatically on Tuesday night with reports that some of Donald Trump’s campaign aides had frequent contact with Russian intelligence officials over the course of last year.

A report in the New York Times came nearly 24 hours after the national security adviser, Michael Flynn, was forced to resign over conversations with the Russian ambassador to Washington and misleading statements about them to the press and vice-president Mike Pence.

The New York Times report cites four current and former US intelligence officials who are unnamed and who conceded they had “so far” seen no evidence in the intercepted phone communications that Trump campaign officials had cooperated with Russian intelligence in Moscow’s efforts to skew the election in Trump’s favour. The officials do not explain what, in that case, the contacts were about.

A CNN report said “high-level advisers close to then-presidential nominee Donald Trump were in constant communication during the campaign with Russians known to US intelligence”.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/14/donald-trump-campaign-russia-intelligence-contact

... and there is no indication that anyone on Team Thump has the slightest idea how to turn the tap off and stop the leaks. Quite the opposite, there's every sign from an angry sidelined National Intelligence community that the leaks will continue and no doubt increase their damaging effect on the credibility and functionality of the Thump White House.

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RE: Trump administration chaos--Michael Flynn resigns! - 2/15/2017 1:50:18 AM   
heavyblinker


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There's also this:

http://www.ibtimes.com/russia-worried-trump-will-be-killed-or-forced-office-2492072

The media is saying they're testing him, but it really makes me wonder if the cruise missile deployment/warship thing is supposed to be a warning to the US government not to impeach Trump. Considering everything that has happened, it really isn't outlandish to suggest that the president of the United States is being protected from his own government via threats from the Russian military.

So when the dark disturbing depths of this Russia thing are brought into the light and Trump is exposed and humiliated (anyone who doubts this is going to happen is kidding themselves), it's going to be a diplomatic nightmare for President Pence. Russia isn't just going to lie down and admit they did it, and who even knows what will even happen.

There seem to be A LOT of leaks on both sides... opposition to the DNC hacking/god knows what else from within Russia makes sense given the potential it has to cause serious conflict between two countries that were already on really bad terms. I keep wondering if there are people on both sides working together to try to get everyone out of this situation without starting a war.

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RE: Trump administration chaos--Michael Flynn resigns! - 2/15/2017 3:22:58 AM   
heavyblinker


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Yes, I agree... a liberal democracy isn't supposed to be like this, but the way I see it, the sooner the piece of shit is gone the sooner we can get things back to normal. Demanding that everyone just fall in line behind someone like that is ridiculous.

It's amazing to me the lengths you people will go to to pretend that the problem isn't Trump.

As much as the right wants Trump to be the terrifying authoritarian leader he thinks everyone wants him to be, that's not how the system works-- it's a good thing. We need to get him out of there before there's a crisis-- he won't be able to deal with it.

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RE: Trump administration chaos--Michael Flynn resigns! - 2/15/2017 4:01:55 AM   
tweakabelle


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This story has a lot yet to be revealed. It's gaining legs with every passing day and there's no reason to suspect we are anywhere near the full unvarnished truth at the moment.

But even if the suspected Russian involvement is confirmed, there's no way the Russians can do anything except deny it until they're red in the face. They certainly cannot admit their role, nor take any international action to conceal or support that role. There's every reason to believe they have as much interest as Thump in ensuring the full story never sees the light of day, but if it does, all they can do is denounce is as a Western plot to embarrass the Kremlin etc etc.

For the USA it's a very different story. If it turns out that Russian support was instrumental in Thump's victory and/or it is shown that Thump's campaign conspired or co-operated with the Russians towards that end, then the implications for the Thump Presidency are grave and could well be terminal. But there's an awful lot of terrain to be covered between here and there. Let's take it one step at a time.

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