RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last?

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RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? - 7/25/2006 8:45:03 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

Susan, you did mean "bad boy" in that "I can take you or leave you" type of way, right? Because some of the definitions of "bad boy" and "nice guy" are confusing. "Nice guy finishing last " meaning the guy that will treat a woman with respect finishes last, and the player that loves em and leaves em, and the one that could care less gets the boards...smiles.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 41

RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? - 7/25/2006 8:46:15 AM

Mavis

Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline

i have this great essay on "Nice guys" that i send the guys that whine to me about how nice guys finish last. (Excerpted and linked below)

If a girl has been telling you "You're really nice...but.." it means "You're just so fishing above your league, and I don't want to embarrass you, but I'm not interested, move along."

The guys who are actually "nice" don't call themselves that, or use it as the excuse why they can't seem to compete with the other boys. They're what we girls call "Decent, solid men". The same arms that can wrestle steel girders in place can hold a baby with gentle care. They play hard, Fuck hard, and by god, they hold the remote. lol.

Mister is a big althletic looking type, but He's so unassuming, He draws women's attention. He does it by making everyone he talks to feel like they're the only person in the room. He caters to His friends, He makes my coffee, He loathes most of the dominant men that do the chest beating type of "Projecting Dominance" posturing. He's a John Walton kind of guy.

Master is smaller frame, is completly anal, has an ego that makes me want to roll my eyes sometimes, but He again is a John Walton kind of guy. He has also been known to bring me, His slave, coffee. That endeared Mister to Him, and how They became friends. He doesn't do the posturing either. Oh, and his eyes can light up like a child when He's talking aobut something important to Him.

Both have a certain "Softness of Soul" that sets me at ease and brings me peace, yet they have passion! They can draw out my energetic playful side, or settle my spirit and make me feel restful. "Nice guys" feel like a drain on my spirit. they project neediness, and seem like they're just waiting for that rejection because they're "too nice".

this essay is just a riot! http://lauragoodwin.org/niceguys.htm

Excerpt:
"I frequently catch vanilla guys making snide remarks like: "assholes get all the girls". This is a way of saying nice guys finish last, but saying it in a way that makes it look like it's the women's fault - like we have bad taste in men, or something. BDSM men also sometimes fall prey to this muddle.

Here's the straight story. When nice guys finish last, it's not because they are nice, but in spite of it. Being nice is no help if you...

...Are too nice to raise your voice and take a stand. Never having anything to say and never taking sides is a great way to be invisible, but it's not a great way to get noticed and appreciated.

...Are too nice to impose yourself on a woman's attention. Never telling her you like her, never asking her out, is not exactly going to send her the message that you think she's special.

...Don't believe in being phony, like dressing up just to look handsome. Many "nice guys" honestly believe that Ms. Right will love them even when they show her no special respect. Look, acting as if she's no big deal will NOT impress her favorably.

...Do not hunt for her. Too bad if getting up and going out for the express purpose of meeting likely women is repellent to you. Think about how unlikely it is that she will come hunting for you...especially if she doesn't know where you are or why she should bother.

...Do not compete for her. If you back off the second any other male shows active interest in the woman, then you are basically ~letting the asshole win~. If a woman looks around, and the only guy that shows any sustained interest in her is the asshole, then what choice have you given her?

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 42

RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? - 7/25/2006 8:46:27 AM

Bearlee

Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
Status: offline

Exactly Susan...been there, done that.

...but not for a long time. Still...I wonder why it is we make choices like that? It seems to me that too many young women are drawn to that kind of guy. I realize it's unhealthy...but I still wonder (now) it it isn't somehow connected to our interest in D/s...we just don't know it yet.

bearlee

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 43

RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? - 7/25/2006 8:47:05 AM

SusanofO

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
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That is an interesting point, BenignPlague. Some people do seem surprised when your sterotypical quiet, supposedly "unassuming" Dominant ends up appearing to run an entire thread (or a conversation with a submissive, even, sometimes).

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to BenignPlague)

Post #: 44

RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? - 7/25/2006 8:50:11 AM

Bearlee

Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
Status: offline

Mavis...that was great! Thanks

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 45

RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? - 7/25/2006 8:50:30 AM

SusanofO

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Joined: 12/19/2005
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Bearlee: Well, in my case I had not been dating anyone for awhile, and this guy had a"rep" with women (or so my sister, who knew him first, told me) - and that made him seem all the more attractive, I guess, since he seemed like some sort of weird challenge for me. But mostly, I think, at the time I was 1) lonely and 2) He liked to drink as much as I did and 3) He was a lot of fun and 4) I was young and kinda stupid.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/25/2006 8:56:24 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Bearlee)

Post #: 46

RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? - 7/25/2006 8:51:45 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Well, julia if I do say so, I think he is also pretty bright. And there is some evidence that points out pretty clearly (that I've read) that really smart people tend to have more of the opposite sex's personality characteristics sometimes (sensitivity might be one of those things, who knows)?

I am not saying men are generally insensitive, either (maybe that they tend to show it less, though, than women, or in different ways).

And people, it was just an article I read. So please, no flames about that. Like anything else, I am sure it could be debated ad infinitum.

- Susan

Sinergy was in graduate school at one point and is talking about going back, he quit because of his work for awhile. He was in computer engineering before the bubble burst and they shipped all those jobs overseas and reduced the salary of everyone who still was employed in that industry here. He is adaptable with the economy and that is why he is a longshoreman.. actually it is a sexy contrast...smiles.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 47

RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? - 7/25/2006 8:52:12 AM

SusanofO

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Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

Yes!! Yay Mavis!! Great post.

- Suan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Mavis)

Post #: 48

RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? - 7/25/2006 8:54:04 AM

SusanofO

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Joined: 12/19/2005
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Yes, that's what I mean, julia. Not being able to show "vulnerability" - ever, even to the person they are (supposedly) "caring" about.

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 49

RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? - 7/25/2006 8:55:46 AM

SusanofO

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

julia:Yeah - brawn nd brains - he is cool. I always thought he had a great sense of humor, too. You guys seem great together, and he is just as lucky as you are . Congrats!

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 50

RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? - 7/25/2006 8:59:02 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee
...but not for a long time. Still...I wonder why it is we make choices like that? It seems to me that too many young women are drawn to that kind of guy. I realize it's unhealthy...but I still wonder (now) it it isn't somehow connected to our interest in D/s...we just don't know it yet.

I too have noticed that many submissives will have a relationship of that type in the beginning of their journey. I think that it is in part because they don't fully understand dominance or their own submission at that point in their lives and often mistake aggression for being a characteristic of a Dominant man. That type of dynamic can feed a portion of the hunger they have to be controlled and dominated, even if it does come from an unhealthy place. As they begin to better understand their submission and what qualities they seek to be fulfilled....the pattern of unhealthy relationships tends to pass.

< Message edited by mistoferin -- 7/25/2006 9:00:52 AM >

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Bearlee)

Post #: 51

RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? - 7/25/2006 8:59:10 AM

thegunslinger

Posts: 81
Joined: 6/4/2006
From: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Status: offline

I suppose it depends on when you ask the nice guys/women. If you would've asked anytime before three months ago I would've have said yes they do, then I found a wonderful lady and submissive. Good things come to those who wait?

_____________________________

"The essence of domination is to take another's power and then use it for mutual pleasure." - John Warren

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 52

RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? - 7/25/2006 9:00:31 AM

Gallantnimrod

Posts: 7
Joined: 10/22/2004
Status: offline

I can honestly say from My experience that, when I treat subs with the respect they're due(Yeah,Ok I'm ready for the Ones that're gonna jump Me-RESPECT A SUB?,if that's your reaction,PM Me please- I have some words of wisdom for You) that I sometimes get used. Would this happen if I was an asshole? Maybe, but I couldn't live with Myself if had to come off like that. Am I a nice guy? Yep,but not in play-there I'm know as His Evil Wickedness. It's a fine line to walk....

"Never make someone Your priority,when You remain their option."

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 53

RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? - 7/25/2006 9:02:50 AM

SCORPIOXXX

Posts: 223
Joined: 11/6/2004
Status: offline

Susan,

I sent you mail a while ago -- you never got to it... Read it and decide how I fit the "nice guy" model (not to mention: too long and specific?)... As I see it, a dom/Master can be exactloy that, and still be caring, considerate, not a sour/dour rectal specimen (and yes, bring you coffee and flowers too!)

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 54

RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? - 7/25/2006 9:08:28 AM

MstrJason1mina

Posts: 74
Joined: 10/7/2004
Status: offline

I think an awesome Movie character and book character to ideal as a Dom is Rhett Butler from Gone With The Wind. A man of true southern charm a true gentleman as He was a scoundrel. Had women loving him serving him and He got what He wanted. grins.just an idea there folks as I am reading posts.

(in reply to dincubus)

Post #: 55

RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? - 7/25/2006 9:08:31 AM

SusanofO

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

mistoferin:I think you are right about not knowing, perhaps, we were really submissive and finding out-investigating, perhaps, how to meet those needs in an otherwise dysfunctional relationship of some sort. This college boyfriend was definitely "Dom like" in many ways, and I liked it - a lot.

In restrospect, I wish I would have listened more closely to those instincts - most of my female relatives were "worried sick" about me because I was in my early thirties, and "still not married" (the horror of it all!). Apparently, I was one of the few people in my family who was not all that concerned about this.

My grandmother was actually lighting candles in church for me daily, praying I would meet "Mr. Right". I married my husband, who did not have a Dominant (or submissive, or any sexually oreinted, as it turned out in the long-term, bone in his body) 3 months after we met eachother. I did love many things about him, but in general, that relationship was not what I really needed. But I won't beat that dead pony again....but you are right, I think.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/25/2006 9:13:30 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 56

RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? - 7/25/2006 9:12:32 AM

SusanofO

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

I apologize, ScorpioXXX. I am terrible about getting to my mail. It isn;'t you - ask anyone who has written me recently. I am a slow poke. I will read it soon.
I don't think you are an A___ole. I never thought so. Thanks for anwering this thread.

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to SCORPIOXXX)

Post #: 57

RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? - 7/25/2006 9:19:55 AM

SCORPIOXXX

Posts: 223
Joined: 11/6/2004
Status: offline

I never meant to imply you thought of me as an a--hole, lol... I am curious to hear your thoughts and impressions all the same re: my style of being.

I should note something I saw and read once: it was a poster in a bar, view of a guy's back as he is stretching and a woman in bed with a smile; the Caption read: "The one place where nice guys do finish last..." I have to agree with that, whether one is nilla or choc...

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 58

RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? - 7/25/2006 9:23:33 AM

SusanofO

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

I agree with you there. I really do.

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to SCORPIOXXX)

Post #: 59

RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? - 7/25/2006 9:27:05 AM

SCORPIOXXX

Posts: 223
Joined: 11/6/2004
Status: offline

Well: whaddaya know! We got something in common already!

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 60

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