vincentML
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Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:
So, if I am reading you correctly, you simply believe that destructive change is good, and will automatically lead to something "better"?
That any system that had or has had less than perfect origins is suspect by default, and is inherently and unambiguously wrong or even "evil"?
In other words, if I understand your underlying method and motives:
You philosophically believe our current system is tainted and irredeemable, due to hypocrisy on some or all of the people or peoples who espoused the principles of classical liberalism, and that the only way to "fix" it, is to seek ... revolution?
And, that one can't envision the replacement ... because advocating any other principles (other than Justice and Liberty) is .. delusional?
Seems I am not expressing my ideas clearly enough, Firm.
Locke, Madison, and Jefferson should not be enshrined because as slave owners or traffickers they exploited humans.
Did I use the word “evil?” No, our system has been flawed throughout its history and earned my criticism by itself.
We look at our history differently, Firm.
I did not value destructive change, the change that followed, nor revolution. I was merely pointing out how societies and cultures are changed. Seen many telephone operators lately?
Irredeemable? No. But, it is an eternal struggle.
Envisioning a replacement, i.e. planning from the top, is delusional because societies and cultures generally grow organically through their histories. However, one can and ought to be concerned if specific values are lacking or abused.
quote:
First, what is "justice"? and what is "liberty", in your mind?
Justice and Liberty for all have been wanting in our history. I wrote earlier in the thread: “By justice I mean substantive and procedural fairness. Evidence of unfairness: of 2000 prisoners exonerated since 1989 more than half were black while only 13% of the population was black. At least 20% of those innocent black men were convicted because of police misconduct.”
Justice and Liberty are benefits more easily obtained by the affluent than the poor. Poor people are jailed for minor traffic offenses and kept there when they cannot afford bail. Two thousand inmates have been exonerated since 1989. DNA testing freed 343. We have the highest per cap incarceration rate in the world. The Court and Congress have deferred to the Executive to go to war, employ rendition, and savagely torture “combatants” even American citizens.
civil liberties and political freedom had to be gained through blood sacrifice in the streets and are still only partially available for certain groups.
representative democracy . . . the right to vote is again being obstructed by the states.
rule of law . . . I support a fair rule of law.
free market capitalism . . . I support markets with proper regulations and voluntary corporate social responsibility that is employed to the benefit of the product line as well as the society. The credit debacle of 2008 confirmed the need for regulations.
empiricism in science, of course
common law as interpreted by the Courts?
societal traditions and institutions selectively
religion or equivalent belief structures I favor separation of church and state, so okay as long as they are not imposed by the state.
Don’t you ever question the fairness of American Justice, Firm?
Regards . . . 
_____________________________
vML
Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.
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