RE: Don't know what to do about this situation

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gnathic -> RE: Don't know what to do about this situation (3/2/2017 12:44:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: longwayhome At the end of the day, it is okay to ask you to leave and okay to put another person first, but from my point of view anyway, you should always make sure that the third person is okay with that, whether it is NSA or part of an ongoing arrangement or relationship. If an arrangement was indeed made for a third party to make sure you were okay, I would prefer someone checked that with me first rather than just doing it. I would have been more open to such if, like you said, a conversation actually took place about it. And yes, I agree. To be honest, the friend and her are extremely close (I didn't know him well before this) and it was from meeting her that he and I have spent time together. So when it came to our scene, I didn't even know if she knew he had offered for me to come over. I actually felt a little concerned that she might view me as getting over-friendly with such a close friend of hers/that she didn't know we were meeting, and so I made sure I let her know that we were meeting just in case she had a problem with it. So yeah, I was kind of oblivious to a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff, it seems. She obviously asked him to have me come over for aftercare, and he either wasn't meant to tell me she had arranged it, or he had forgotten to mention that bit or something. But yeah, more miscommunication.

longwayhome -> RE: Don't know what to do about this situation (3/2/2017 12:45:03 PM)
I wouldn't go as as far as to say that you have "basically been deceived into dropping my knickers for NSA", although that may be the case. There may have been no intention to do that, only an intention to protect the other sub's feelings once they made it clear that they did not want you to stay. What you cannot be sure about is how this was communicated between the other two and when. What is clear is that it left you feeling somewhat vulnerable and manipulated, which may not have been what either of the other parties set out to do. Whatever way, you have a responsibility to yourself not to put yourself in that situation again, without your eyes being fully open about the situation, should there be any suggestion of further play.

gnathic -> RE: Don't know what to do about this situation (3/2/2017 12:49:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: longwayhome I wouldn't go as as far as to say that you have "basically been deceived into dropping my knickers for NSA", although that may be the case. There may have been no intention to do that, only an intention to protect the other sub's feelings once they made it clear that they did not want you to stay. What you cannot be sure about is how this was communicated between the other two and when. What is clear is that it left you feeling somewhat vulnerable and manipulated, which may not have been what either of the other parties set out to do. Whatever way, you have a responsibility to yourself not to put yourself in that situation again, without your eyes being fully open about the situation, should there be any suggestion of further play. By dropping my knickers, I was only meaning that if I had continued to meet them for scenes in the hope that the non-bedroom part would develop (as they had indicated they were looking for) only for them never to give this. I personally think that if they had continued to do this then it would have been manipulation. As it stands now though, I wouldn't make that claim as we've only had the one scene :) So I wasn't meaning that in relation to this. I hope it is the case that it was just to protect the other sub's feelings.. That they are simply taking it slowly and that they do have intentions for me to stay in the not-so-distant future once it's all not so fresh and alien. Yeah, I definitely was left with a taste of that. And I agree completely.

longwayhome -> RE: Don't know what to do about this situation (3/2/2017 1:00:33 PM)
You have to feel comfortable with it, whatever you decide to do. All the best with your future communication and decision.

gnathic -> RE: Don't know what to do about this situation (3/2/2017 1:01:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: longwayhome Just as you should not necessarily have expected to stay, the others should not have expected that you had taken the hint about not staying, especially as there were other "hints" about a longer term association. Sorry, I forgot to reply to this bit. She first contacted me through a kink site, and explicitly told me that she was looking for someone to join her sub 'in and out of the bedroom' and for 'regular play'. I think that whilst a lot of assumptions have probably been formed on both sides, I do think that my belief that she was looking for someone to join them, as she said, 'in and out of the bedroom' was more of a result of what she said/wanted me to think than something I had inferred indirectly or through hints. This, if nothing else, was made clear.

gnathic -> RE: Don't know what to do about this situation (3/2/2017 1:04:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: longwayhome You have to feel comfortable with it, whatever you decide to do. All the best with your future communication and decision. Thanks :) I appreciate your help a lot. All the best.

LadyPact -> RE: Don't know what to do about this situation (3/2/2017 2:52:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gnathic Thank you, yes, that is exactly what I think the situation probably is. Perhaps it is unfair of me, but I can't help but feel a little resentful of this because I know that if I were the sub inviting a third in, that I would only agree to this if I were OK with sharing completely. My ex Dom and I spoke about potentially inviting a long term third after we had played 1:1 a little more, and I can't imagine asking her to be sent home once we played. I personally would only agree to such an arrangement if I felt ok not cherry-picking the good parts for myself and then disregarding the needs of the other person. Perhaps you disagree, but I personally think that is a bit selfish, especially given that drop can occur at the end of a scene. I think a part of this (the 'what you would do') complicates matters. It sets the whole thing up as 'what you do would be right and what other people want as bad'. Frankly, I don't stay the entire night with every person I play with. The drop can occur at any time theory, while true, doesn't mean that everybody should put their life on hold, waiting for it to happen. And, maybe I'm wrong, but this wasn't the case. The three of you played. All of you got ready from the hotel to go to dinner. Ate dinner as a foursome. After dinner, you went to the home of a trusted friend. You stayed the night in company of the other party. Through the course of events, I'm guessing that you were doing ok, to some degree. Not an emotional mess at a restaurant, etc. If your feeling bad about this a day or two later occurred, the subject of staying over the original night was a misnomer. If not, you are saying that drop would have been prevented based on WHERE you slept and WHO was in the bed with you at the time. It wasn't about the actual activities that you engaged in. Rather the circumstances around/after such play. quote: Yes, I think that is exactly why I was prevented from paying. I just wish that I had realised the bigger picture and hadn't assumed that none of us were staying. Or that she had simply explained that, for now at least, I would need to leave afterwards as this is their time. I would have appreciated that honesty and her being direct and upfront. Whereas I felt that she basically avoided that whole conversation. It wasn't her fault that I didn't twig the implications of what was happening, but I still think that it would have been a better way of handling it to have actually brought it up with me rather than side-step the issue. I have to tell you. I'm not big on "the responsibility should be on the Domme" to bring it up when it comes to negotiations. The stuff that is important to you, has to be brought to the table by you. quote: Regarding the sub heirarchy, I agree to a degree. I agree that of course he is more important to her, of course. When I have played with those couples before, I obviously realised they were more important to each other than I was to them. But I personally think that if you choose to involve a regular third, there are ways of going about it that don't involve taking the good bits for yourself and disregarding the other person. I appreciate that you probably would disagree with this, but I personally think that when you're dealing with a person, there are going to be both benefits and costs to such a situation, and it is unfair to just take the benefits. You're dealing with a person, after all. For want of a better analogy, I think it's life taking a job as a schoolteacher because you love kids and then refusing to be present at parent evenings because you dislike the parents. I'm basically just being used for sex at that point..even though they presented this very explicitly as wanting to involve me both inside and outside the bedroom. Bedroom only wasn't what I agreed to, but at this point, there's nothing to suggest that this isn't what they are actually gunning for. And I don't think that is fair, I think it's sneaky if this is their plan for the long-term. With all due respect, you aren't a regular third yet. It's something that was discussed. Not something that has actually happened at this point. For your school teacher analogy, that was an 'all or nothing' position. As it happens, I work with a gal who is sort of 'taking a year off' from teaching. She is doing substitute work (mostly) at this time and is paying her bills being employed where I work. (She's quite good at it. Better than I am, actually.) She's not big on parents. PTCs, in her opinion, should be about where the student is doing well and the areas in where they need work. quote: I agree on your following two paragraphs. I see what you mean regarding drop, I think you're right. I would have felt bad whether I got drop or not (though it probably didn't help). Thanks for the information on that topic. As a personal note, I find the subjects of space and drop fascinating. I wish we knew more about it. The chemical level. How we interpret it. How things like adrenaline and dopamine process. Why we do it at different rates. So much we don't understand that it would be really cool to know. quote: Is there a specific way that you think I could bring this up with her? I'm thinking that when she arranges the next scene and either outlines the timeframe I'm expected for or simply doesn't mention it that I may have to just come straight out and ask her if this is going to be the regular set-up and that I probably need more than that. But then it gets to the twisting-her-arm thing that I mentioned in my opening. I hope you'll understand that my opinion comes from someone who engages in "V" type poly for all respective purposes. I don't, and I've never treated multiple relationships of mine as "equals". Don't really believe in it much. Yes, your opening about this would be if/when you are approached for play again. Let's say the last time wasn't negotiated well. (Humor me.) First thing I'd be looking at, even if you are a secondary, would be how is this shaping up between you and her? Is she spending time with you, contributing to what just you and she have together? He gets his time. Do you get yours? Second, outline some boundaries. Play isn't the only area of life that has limits and preferences. No, you probably don't neeeeeeeeed eight hours of aftercare after a simple afternoon romp. Why can't you talk about what would make the experience better for you? When you do that, include the good stuff in your conversation. Not just what didn't work for you. There were good parts, too, right? Third, realize that negotiation means just that. Everybody has different ideas. Just like you would have liked something from this prior experience, well, maybe she's not in her comfort zone just yet for everything you want. Could what you want be a goal? Is it a goal worth working towards? Hey, maybe you don't spend the night together just yet, or you sleep in separate rooms in the same space to get closer to that? Got a couch that she can crash on after a (kink) club night? If you were to ask me, which you did, if you want to build a relationship, build one. It's not really different.

gnathic -> RE: Don't know what to do about this situation (3/2/2017 3:28:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact quote: ORIGINAL: gnathic Thank you, yes, that is exactly what I think the situation probably is. Perhaps it is unfair of me, but I can't help but feel a little resentful of this because I know that if I were the sub inviting a third in, that I would only agree to this if I were OK with sharing completely. My ex Dom and I spoke about potentially inviting a long term third after we had played 1:1 a little more, and I can't imagine asking her to be sent home once we played. I personally would only agree to such an arrangement if I felt ok not cherry-picking the good parts for myself and then disregarding the needs of the other person. Perhaps you disagree, but I personally think that is a bit selfish, especially given that drop can occur at the end of a scene. I think a part of this (the 'what you would do') complicates matters. It sets the whole thing up as 'what you do would be right and what other people want as bad'. Frankly, I don't stay the entire night with every person I play with. The drop can occur at any time theory, while true, doesn't mean that everybody should put their life on hold, waiting for it to happen. And, maybe I'm wrong, but this wasn't the case. The three of you played. All of you got ready from the hotel to go to dinner. Ate dinner as a foursome. After dinner, you went to the home of a trusted friend. You stayed the night in company of the other party. Through the course of events, I'm guessing that you were doing ok, to some degree. Not an emotional mess at a restaurant, etc. If your feeling bad about this a day or two later occurred, the subject of staying over the original night was a misnomer. If not, you are saying that drop would have been prevented based on WHERE you slept and WHO was in the bed with you at the time. It wasn't about the actual activities that you engaged in. Rather the circumstances around/after such play. quote: Yes, I think that is exactly why I was prevented from paying. I just wish that I had realised the bigger picture and hadn't assumed that none of us were staying. Or that she had simply explained that, for now at least, I would need to leave afterwards as this is their time. I would have appreciated that honesty and her being direct and upfront. Whereas I felt that she basically avoided that whole conversation. It wasn't her fault that I didn't twig the implications of what was happening, but I still think that it would have been a better way of handling it to have actually brought it up with me rather than side-step the issue. I have to tell you. I'm not big on "the responsibility should be on the Domme" to bring it up when it comes to negotiations. The stuff that is important to you, has to be brought to the table by you. quote: Regarding the sub heirarchy, I agree to a degree. I agree that of course he is more important to her, of course. When I have played with those couples before, I obviously realised they were more important to each other than I was to them. But I personally think that if you choose to involve a regular third, there are ways of going about it that don't involve taking the good bits for yourself and disregarding the other person. I appreciate that you probably would disagree with this, but I personally think that when you're dealing with a person, there are going to be both benefits and costs to such a situation, and it is unfair to just take the benefits. You're dealing with a person, after all. For want of a better analogy, I think it's life taking a job as a schoolteacher because you love kids and then refusing to be present at parent evenings because you dislike the parents. I'm basically just being used for sex at that point..even though they presented this very explicitly as wanting to involve me both inside and outside the bedroom. Bedroom only wasn't what I agreed to, but at this point, there's nothing to suggest that this isn't what they are actually gunning for. And I don't think that is fair, I think it's sneaky if this is their plan for the long-term. With all due respect, you aren't a regular third yet. It's something that was discussed. Not something that has actually happened at this point. For your school teacher analogy, that was an 'all or nothing' position. As it happens, I work with a gal who is sort of 'taking a year off' from teaching. She is doing substitute work (mostly) at this time and is paying her bills being employed where I work. (She's quite good at it. Better than I am, actually.) She's not big on parents. PTCs, in her opinion, should be about where the student is doing well and the areas in where they need work. quote: I agree on your following two paragraphs. I see what you mean regarding drop, I think you're right. I would have felt bad whether I got drop or not (though it probably didn't help). Thanks for the information on that topic. As a personal note, I find the subjects of space and drop fascinating. I wish we knew more about it. The chemical level. How we interpret it. How things like adrenaline and dopamine process. Why we do it at different rates. So much we don't understand that it would be really cool to know. quote: Is there a specific way that you think I could bring this up with her? I'm thinking that when she arranges the next scene and either outlines the timeframe I'm expected for or simply doesn't mention it that I may have to just come straight out and ask her if this is going to be the regular set-up and that I probably need more than that. But then it gets to the twisting-her-arm thing that I mentioned in my opening. I hope you'll understand that my opinion comes from someone who engages in "V" type poly for all respective purposes. I don't, and I've never treated multiple relationships of mine as "equals". Don't really believe in it much. Yes, your opening about this would be if/when you are approached for play again. Let's say the last time wasn't negotiated well. (Humor me.) First thing I'd be looking at, even if you are a secondary, would be how is this shaping up between you and her? Is she spending time with you, contributing to what just you and she have together? He gets his time. Do you get yours? Second, outline some boundaries. Play isn't the only area of life that has limits and preferences. No, you probably don't neeeeeeeeed eight hours of aftercare after a simple afternoon romp. Why can't you talk about what would make the experience better for you? When you do that, include the good stuff in your conversation. Not just what didn't work for you. There were good parts, too, right? Third, realize that negotiation means just that. Everybody has different ideas. Just like you would have liked something from this prior experience, well, maybe she's not in her comfort zone just yet for everything you want. Could what you want be a goal? Is it a goal worth working towards? Hey, maybe you don't spend the night together just yet, or you sleep in separate rooms in the same space to get closer to that? Got a couch that she can crash on after a (kink) club night? If you were to ask me, which you did, if you want to build a relationship, build one. It's not really different. I think you have a point. I think the fact that she has handled it in a way differently to the way I would, makes it very easy for me to take that as her not caring about me. For me, if I were to send her off at the end of a scene, it would be because I don't care. Whereas, I don't actually know her position on that. I need to talk to her about this whole topic, really. I think I specifically need aftercare in the form of spending the night (if a scene occurs during the evening) with my Dom/me is what I need, on the basis of what has previously worked for me. Factor in that the fact that the other sub gets to stay too... No matter what the reasons and the validity behind them, being excluded feels unpleasant. I feel like I am the kind of person who can be prevented from drop by adequate (for me) immediate aftercare - as I received from my previous Dom. Therefore drop for me can be prevented and it wouldn't simply delay it for a few days later. Regarding dinner, this happened within only 5-10 mins of us playing, and the way she offered for me to come felt very forced/awkward (as in, I felt she was making a point of showing me that my presence for such - literally as they were getting dressed less than ten mins after we stopped having sex - was suddenly not needed nor assumed. So being with them didn't feel like aftercare for me, because I didn't feel wanted. I don't know if that makes sense. A forced invitation doesn't make you feel valued and cared about, and for myself, I need to feel cared about for aftercare to work. And no, I didn't go back to the friend's in the end. The only people I wanted to be around at that point were the ones that had brought me into subspace in the first place. I wanted to wind down, whereas being with someone external and who I don't know very well would make me feel even more drained (lovely as the friend is). I also don't enjoy the feeling that I am lumbering someone with my presence. So the whole thing just doesn't make me feel valued at all. My only defence to the bringing-to-table part is that I'm still quite new (only had a handful of scenes prior to this, and I didn't realise how much I need aftercare). Whilst I would agree, I think that responsibility was also on her as well as me. It does surprise me that an experienced Dom/me could not enquire about the aftercare needs of their sub. I'm not suggesting it is solely a Dom/me's responsibility (not at all), but I do think they share it. Plus, she knew that I have very little experience anyway and so perhaps am not all that clued up about the importance of aftercare for a lot of people. Fair point. My point with the teacher analogy was merely that when you enter into a certain role, it is unreasonable to shirk the responsibilities that don't appeal to you. I understand though that we have quite different perceptions of what our responsibilities as a Dom or a couple entails. I agree on finding the topic interesting. I so, so wish more research has been conducted in this area, and other BDSM related topics. I won't pretend to be that knowledgeable about polyamory, as whilst I want to explore that, I haven't yet. Though I do think that whilst someone may be more important/heirarchies may exist, I don't think it excuses treating people as such. For example with the other couples I mentioned, I never felt on the outside, lesser or like the other partner's needs were being prioritised at the expense of mine. I don't feel I am asking for special treatment, just equal treatment. Well, the sub doesn't live that close to us, and so they only see each other every couple of months or so. I am reluctant to suggest meeting one on one as she has not expressed an interest in this, and certainly because of the fact that I was sent home earlier than the other sub (self-respect and all of that). Besides that, we have been keeping in-touch on text on/off, as well as on social media. But no actual meets (though there has been suggestion of me helping her out with something next week). I am hesitant to chase her myself, because of the fact she rarely sees the sub and the way the scene ended. Thanks, I think voicing positives is an important point. And yes, goals would perhaps be a good think to think about. Thing is, if I am not permitted to stay for a while, I am strongly opposed to the idea of having PIV sex with the other sub. This may appear childish, but I have never liked the idea of having that degree of intimacy with someone who is unprepared to spend non-sexual time with me (such as letting me stay over the night, if we have sex in the evening) (and no we didn't have that during our first scene as it just didn't come about). I just don't like it and I'm not interested in the used feelings I will get as a result under these conditions. I think I have a lot to negotiate with her, but it does look like a compromise could potentially be reached.

gnathic -> RE: Don't know what to do about this situation (3/3/2017 6:42:51 AM)
I think what I have come to realise is that if this situation continues with this kind of structure, then it's more bedroom-stuff only than bedroom-and-out. Spending a polite 20 mins together either side of the actual sexual experience may exist, but IMO still makes it just a mutually polite sexual experience with a couple. Which is fine (it's not that far off from what I had with the couple I saw long-term), but the problem is that this was put to me as more than that (whereas with the previous couple, they were very upfront right from the off that this was just a sexual thing... we became friends naturally as things progressed. But we were always very upfront with each other and they never approached me stating they were looking for anything more than a sexual experience - so I was always very happy with the arrangement). Correct me if I'm wrong.

LTE -> RE: Don't know what to do about this situation (3/3/2017 11:07:10 AM)
Whew. It's easy to over think about such things. Perhaps we should remember to just go with our feelings. They are likely correct and if they are not at least life is simpler and we have much more time to enjoy it.

gnathic -> RE: Don't know what to do about this situation (3/3/2017 12:48:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LTE Whew. It's easy to over think about such things. Perhaps we should remember to just go with our feelings. They are likely correct and if they are not at least life is simpler and we have much more time to enjoy it. I'm definitely prone to over-analysing :) But I prefer to dissect something if it's bothering me so I can work out what to do about it. I think that's good advice though.

Shandirra -> RE: Don't know what to do about this situation (3/4/2017 8:55:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gnathic I'm definitely prone to over-analysing... I doubt that. You've not analyzed the ramifications of the dominant woman seeing you air dirty laundry in front of strangers. Most dominant individuals consider this activity a deal breaker. You better pray she doesn't see this discussion.

gnathic -> RE: Don't know what to do about this situation (3/4/2017 10:48:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Shandirra quote: ORIGINAL: gnathic I'm definitely prone to over-analysing... I doubt that. You've not analyzed the ramifications of the dominant woman seeing you air dirty laundry in front of strangers. Most dominant individuals consider this activity a deal breaker. You better pray she doesn't see this discussion. Hi Shandirra, Over-analysing doesn't equate to having realised everything there is to realise about the situation. As for dirty laundry, I'm simply seeking advice. I'd rather do this here rather than go to the community about this, for obvious reasons (I would see that as airing dirty laundry). There's only so much vanilla friends can help me, as they don't engage in any of this stuff so for this I can't go them either. So am I meant to not speak to anyone about this? My asking for help here on an issue that I am unsure about as a newbie isn't in any way harming her reputation. And there's no way anyone external to our situation could infer her identity as only us 3 know how all this played out. You can't necessarily say that about going to RL friends in the community as this could arguably get around (which I wouldn't ever do). I don't see what's wrong with seeking out advice from strangers who will give me honest feedback and tell me if I'm being an ass. It would be unfortunate, but I think I have a responsibility to myself to try to find out what I seem to be getting myself into regarding the situation. As it is, I think those who have responded have been really helpful and so I feel I know how to approach this with her when we next speak so that hopefully we can both figure something out that suits all three of us. Either way, I'm better able to approach her about this now than I was before seeking advice on the topic. What's wrong with that? Plus I think generally you can't actually move for people seeking advice on BDSM forums, and I suspect that is because of how underground these kinds of relationships/dynamics are. If you want a solution to your problem, you actually have to look for it rather than grab any old friend for a coffee as general society doesn't actually have the answer, much less socialise you into knowing what to do in situations such as this... hence, I suspect, why there are so many threads on FL/various other kink discussion sites with people asking for advice in D/s.

Shandirra -> RE: Don't know what to do about this situation (3/4/2017 5:15:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gnathic Hi Shandirra, Over-analysing doesn't equate to having realised everything there is to realise about the situation. As for dirty laundry, I'm simply seeking advice. I'd rather do this here rather than go to the community about this, for obvious reasons (I would see that as airing dirty laundry). There's only so much vanilla friends can help me, as they don't engage in any of this stuff so for this I can't go them either. So am I meant to not speak to anyone about this? My asking for help here on an issue that I am unsure about as a newbie isn't in any way harming her reputation. And there's no way anyone external to our situation could infer her identity as only us 3 know how all this played out. You can't necessarily say that about going to RL friends in the community as this could arguably get around (which I wouldn't ever do). I don't see what's wrong with seeking out advice from strangers who will give me honest feedback and tell me if I'm being an ass. It would be unfortunate, but I think I have a responsibility to myself to try to find out what I seem to be getting myself into regarding the situation. As it is, I think those who have responded have been really helpful and so I feel I know how to approach this with her when we next speak so that hopefully we can both figure something out that suits all three of us. Either way, I'm better able to approach her about this now than I was before seeking advice on the topic. What's wrong with that? Plus I think generally you can't actually move for people seeking advice on BDSM forums, and I suspect that is because of how underground these kinds of relationships/dynamics are. If you want a solution to your problem, you actually have to look for it rather than grab any old friend for a coffee as general society doesn't actually have the answer, much less socialise you into knowing what to do in situations such as this... hence, I suspect, why there are so many threads on FL/various other kink discussion sites with people asking for advice in D/s. 'Evening OP: My point in all of this (that you've missed by a mile); this is communication you should been having with the lady and not with a bunch of 'lifestyle' strangers. I agree, bringing this to vanilla friends/family is hardly a viable option. However; taking this past the scope of the involved parties, whether or not they could be identified by your local community, is tacky. I'm gathering from the elements presented that there's details omitted as each post reveals more than the prior. My impression is that you're butt hurt because the established submissive is getting perks you feel entitled to. You're not. This is an established couple. You're just the icing on the cake. Don't get jealous because you weren't offered more than a thin slice. My advice? Distance yourself and renegotiate the terms of any future meetings/scenes. Be much more explicit in your communications with her/them. If you need to make it a checklist quick sheet, do so. Once you've made your mind up to the details, stick to them. Understand that you're responsible for your well being and don't put the onus on others. Realize also, any sort of commitment on any party's part takes time. Their intentions may be to incorporate you into their dynamic long term, but trust is difficult to build and shouldn't be rushed. LP made a very good point. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact I don't invite everybody to stay. Doesn't matter about my primary relationship or not. If I so much as bring my purse to a hotel, I may not want to sleep in the same room as somebody I barely know. Take that into account.

gnathic -> RE: Don't know what to do about this situation (3/4/2017 5:49:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Shandirra quote: ORIGINAL: gnathic Hi Shandirra, Over-analysing doesn't equate to having realised everything there is to realise about the situation. As for dirty laundry, I'm simply seeking advice. I'd rather do this here rather than go to the community about this, for obvious reasons (I would see that as airing dirty laundry). There's only so much vanilla friends can help me, as they don't engage in any of this stuff so for this I can't go them either. So am I meant to not speak to anyone about this? My asking for help here on an issue that I am unsure about as a newbie isn't in any way harming her reputation. And there's no way anyone external to our situation could infer her identity as only us 3 know how all this played out. You can't necessarily say that about going to RL friends in the community as this could arguably get around (which I wouldn't ever do). I don't see what's wrong with seeking out advice from strangers who will give me honest feedback and tell me if I'm being an ass. It would be unfortunate, but I think I have a responsibility to myself to try to find out what I seem to be getting myself into regarding the situation. As it is, I think those who have responded have been really helpful and so I feel I know how to approach this with her when we next speak so that hopefully we can both figure something out that suits all three of us. Either way, I'm better able to approach her about this now than I was before seeking advice on the topic. What's wrong with that? Plus I think generally you can't actually move for people seeking advice on BDSM forums, and I suspect that is because of how underground these kinds of relationships/dynamics are. If you want a solution to your problem, you actually have to look for it rather than grab any old friend for a coffee as general society doesn't actually have the answer, much less socialise you into knowing what to do in situations such as this... hence, I suspect, why there are so many threads on FL/various other kink discussion sites with people asking for advice in D/s. 'Evening OP: My point in all of this (that you've missed by a mile); this is communication you should been having with the lady and not with a bunch of 'lifestyle' strangers. I agree, bringing this to vanilla friends/family is hardly a viable option. However; taking this past the scope of the involved parties, whether or not they could be identified by your local community, is tacky. I'm gathering from the elements presented that there's details omitted as each post reveals more than the prior. My impression is that you're butt hurt because the established submissive is getting perks you feel entitled to. You're not. This is an established couple. You're just the icing on the cake. Don't get jealous because you weren't offered more than a thin slice. My advice? Distance yourself and renegotiate the terms of any future meetings/scenes. Be much more explicit in your communications with her/them. If you need to make it a checklist quick sheet, do so. Once you've made your mind up to the details, stick to them. Understand that you're responsible for your well being and don't put the onus on others. Realize also, any sort of commitment on any party's part takes time. Their intentions may be to incorporate you into their dynamic long term, but trust is difficult to build and shouldn't be rushed. LP made a very good point. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact I don't invite everybody to stay. Doesn't matter about my primary relationship or not. If I so much as bring my purse to a hotel, I may not want to sleep in the same room as somebody I barely know. Take that into account. Good evening, Yes, it is definitely conversation I should be having with her, and what I am intending on having. But if you scroll back up to my original post, I wasn't even confident that my feelings were valid/that others would have felt the way I did after this. I also didn't know how best to approach it. Just as talking to friends/family helps with this - which as we have mentioned, wasn't an option in this case - I decided to look elsewhere. Haven't you found that you're better able to navigate an issue by discussing with others first...those who could provide a little insight you hadn't considered? Remember, I have only been involved in this on/off for just a matter of months. It's all incredibly new to me. Regarding the 'tacky' part... I have to admit I do care far more about working out how to best handle a situation and receive helpful input from potentially far knowledgeable/experienced people than myself than appearing 'tacky' to strangers on a forum. Though I do get that it clearly looks tacky from yours/etc perspective. Which is fair enough. I feel like I've taken a lot from others' comments and I don't regret having asked for such. 'Butthurt'? Maybe. As I said, I felt used. 'Entitled'? Maybe, but then only because in this situation, she told me in very explicit terms she was looking for more than sexual interaction with me. Had she not done so, then of course I wouldn't have been left feeling like she had told me things would be a certain way and then not done it as such. I like casual sex. I just don't like people expressing that they are seeking more than that with me only to then drop me as soon as the sex is over. And I don't know that I feel 'jealous'... I mean, if anything I just feel a bit used and like we would all have benefited from more communication. I feel disappointed in myself for not having negotiated more and disappointed that she didn't represent what she was looking for a little more accurately and that she didn't have a conversation with me about, e.g. the aftercare, and that I'd need to leave. I agree with the rest of your advice, and thank you for giving it.

gnathic -> RE: Don't know what to do about this situation (3/4/2017 6:42:07 PM)
And finally, thanks for everyone's advice. It's been very helpful and I will be taking it all into account when we discuss it.

OsideGirl -> RE: Don't know what to do about this situation (3/4/2017 8:23:47 PM)
Every time I come back to this thread.....all I can think is that this situation could have been avoided by having an in depth conversation about expectations.

LadyPact -> RE: Don't know what to do about this situation (3/5/2017 6:01:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OsideGirl Every time I come back to this thread.....all I can think is that this situation could have been avoided by having an in depth conversation about expectations. I happen to agree with this, entirely. It's also exactly what I hope the OP will get out of this thread. There are too many 'unspoken expectations' in this thread, to me. I'm not going to say that I would have necessarily agreed to the OP's preferences about staying the night. I would have looked at several factors. My own comfort zone would have mattered. The fact that I only get to see the other play partner once every couple of months would have mattered. The actual level of BDSM play would have mattered. How well do I really know this person would have been taken into account. How far did the OP go to get to this hotel for a drive and was she really experiencing space from the play. The things that were situational dependent. I did misspeak earlier. In a hotel (or public play space) situation, if I've been having fun, I am going to want to step outside to smoke.

Shandirra -> RE: Don't know what to do about this situation (3/5/2017 11:48:00 PM)
'Morning OP - My post about you accepting responsibility for you own expectations/actions has fallen on blind eyes. Put this way; what you were experiencing was 'sub frenzy'. That expectant glow, the desire to rush into every new experience headlong and then pray that it stands up to the shiny, bright ideal you've imagined. When it did not conform to your desires, you blamed others for your over zealous and over reaching dreams. quote: ORIGINAL: Shandirra Their intentions may be to incorporate you into their dynamic long term, but trust is difficult to build and shouldn't be rushed. I'm not being needlessly harsh, despite what you may think. I'm saying this as I believe that; unlike the majority of folks that come to the forums seeking advice, you may actually be smart enough to understand the point. Your posts show some thought and consideration, more than the average newbie. Put that brain to use and stop seeking to dodge the issue. By your own account, this was a FIRST SCENE. Did you honestly believe you'd get all the bells and whistles on the first encounter?? No. Re-read my quote. Let it sink in. quote: ORIGINAL: gnathic Haven't you found that you're better able to navigate an issue by discussing with others first...those who could provide a little insight you hadn't considered? No. Because I've found that others' viewpoints will color the issue and muddy the situation. Everything should be handled by one's self and no one else for no one else will suffer the consequences and everyone must be accountable for their own words/actions. Stand on your own feet. Steer your own course. Ultimately, no one is responsible for what happens to you except you. Face it.

gnathic -> RE: Don't know what to do about this situation (3/6/2017 8:09:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OsideGirl Every time I come back to this thread.....all I can think is that this situation could have been avoided by having an in depth conversation about expectations. I agree. I'm not going to let that happen again. Definitely learned from it.

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