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RE: Newbies self identifying as painsluts - 7/25/2006 8:14:23 PM

KittenInterruptd

Posts: 23
Joined: 2/8/2005
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

and as long we have your attention newbies do not feel ashamed to use your safe-word it is not: a fall from grace, you will not ruin the scene, you will not hurt the doms feelings, and you are not topping from the bottom...you are at your limit, and that is what it is there for.

I am soooooo glad you mentioned that because this is also another case where she was "too embarassed" to use her safe word. I don't personally believe in the use of safewords...I think that straightforward communication is much more effective. But holy shit, if you are given a tool to stop the action and you don't use it OR any other form of communication to signal a problem...who's fault is it when things go sour and you walk away unhappy????? You have a responsibility for yourself....it is NOT all on the Dom.

You also have a responsibility to the Dominant. There are times when screaming and crying in pain means stop, and times when it means "Good God, please never stop." It can be hard to tell the difference between the two, especially if you are playing with someone for the first few times. You have a responsibility as 50% of the people involved in that consensual action to let the Dominant know what is going on.

It is hard work for a submissive to heal bruises, harder work for her/him to heal the fear that might come when a Dominant goes too far... but it is harder even still for a Dominant to heal that fear within themselves when they discover they might've pushed someone past that breaking point and broken them.

Dominants are people too.

_____________________________

I have fallen.
And now I lie, broken and bleeding.
Becoming a corpse.
As cold as the dead.

And still I wait for you.

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 21

RE: Newbies self identifying as painsluts - 7/25/2006 8:16:57 PM

gooddogbenji

Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline

I know that I have an extremely high threshold of pain (Caning isn't painful until she swings rightly and hits my sweet spots), so heavy play for me, at least when it comes to a good thwacking, is far more intense than for a painslut with a low tolerance. However, I have very little bondage experience, so I know any of those weird contortionist ties will have me screaming in half a second.

So, how to define heavy play across the board, when everyone feels pain differently?

Yours,

benji

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to SavageEu)

Post #: 22

RE: Newbies self identifying as painsluts - 7/25/2006 8:25:18 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Exactly my point julia....she HAD a way....did it do her a damn bit of good? As I said in the other thread about safe words....too often I've seen the failures. If being given a safe word really kept people safe....why is she crying now?

Was her safeword used and respected?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 23

RE: Newbies self identifying as painsluts - 7/25/2006 8:32:16 PM

KittenInterruptd

Posts: 23
Joined: 2/8/2005
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

I know that I have an extremely high threshold of pain (Caning isn't painful until she swings rightly and hits my sweet spots), so heavy play for me, at least when it comes to a good thwacking, is far more intense than for a painslut with a low tolerance. However, I have very little bondage experience, so I know any of those weird contortionist ties will have me screaming in half a second.

So, how to define heavy play across the board, when everyone feels pain differently?

Yours,

benji

Not only does everyone feel pain differently, but everyone feels different pain in different ways. Personally, if it comes to biting you could about tear a piece out of me with your teeth and I'd love it, but if it's a cane then I'm crying before the first strike. I consider myself a painslut, and I say that with years of real time experience, but I would never be so stupid as to turn up to a Dominant and tell them I was a painslut and bare my arse for him to do as he wishes without giving him more information. It is not only dangerous but a disrespect to the Dominant. I'd want to arm my Dominant well with all of the information about me that I could give. But then, that is part of being fully owned by someone.

Oh, and OUCH isn't really an effective safeword.

A couple of true stories...

I was discussing play with a friend of mine who is a switch. He was talking about trying to choose a safeword because he didn't feel comfortable with the Orange/Red system that a lot of people use. He suggested that he used his middle name. I thought that it might work until he told me what it was...

His middle name is Neil.

I didn't think his Mistress would appreciate him yelling it at her in a scene.

My girlfriend and I were trying a new paddle that I'd bought. It was the first time she had ever been paddled and I was swinging it. I have been a slave for about 4 years now but spent almost 11 years as a Domme before that. In all of that time I had NEVER had a sub use a safe word with me because I am careful and move forward slowly. I would get very extreme at times but only when I was certain that the sub was coping. There is a certain amount of pride I had in Domming for that long without having someone use a safe word.

I swing the paddle once and swat her on the arse with a nice solid sting. She screams "ORANGE!"

Then followed the talk about how safe words are for a specific use and not to be used for an "Ow, I didn't think that would feel like that." moment.

There goes the 11 years of no safe words.

_____________________________

I have fallen.
And now I lie, broken and bleeding.
Becoming a corpse.
As cold as the dead.

And still I wait for you.

(in reply to gooddogbenji)

Post #: 24

RE: Newbies self identifying as painsluts - 7/25/2006 8:37:10 PM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
Was her safeword used and respected?

No julia....as I said...it was given to her but she was "too embarassed" to use it. That's what happens in the real world...things go wrong....things that you can't count on. Had she used it would it have been respected? I can't answer that. I don't know the Dom. Maybe he is now in emotional pain because he gave her a safe word and she failed him. Maybe he is new too...maybe he was counting on that magic word to keep them both safe. Maybe he was just intent on beating her ass and it was all about him and he wouldn't have honored that word anyway. Maybe she should have never trusted him. There are a million maybes. Exactly why I say over and over and over again that a safe word is NOT a guarantee that you will walk away safe. A safe call is NOT a guarantee that you will walk away safe.

But I don't have to go back over all of that with you, I have been pretty clear where I stand on those kinds of issues. This is just one more reason why.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 25

RE: Newbies self identifying as painsluts - 7/25/2006 8:38:49 PM

SavageEu

Posts: 197
Joined: 7/8/2006
Status: offline

Point conceded, I suppose I will just have to search it out per person. Heh, amazing how many things come down that :)

(in reply to gooddogbenji)

Post #: 26

RE: Newbies self identifying as painsluts - 7/25/2006 8:59:28 PM

mstrj69

Posts: 295
Joined: 5/27/2004
Status: offline

It is easy to argue safe calls and safe words work and they do at times. The reason they work is the person who has the safe call set up also is knowledgeable and knows not to [lay on the first meeting, and how to take care of themselves. In this instance, if she knew she did not follow what she had been taught. If you do not do what you know will be best for you, nothing will help.

(in reply to SavageEu)

Post #: 27

RE: Newbies self identifying as painsluts - 7/25/2006 9:07:23 PM

SweetSarijane

Posts: 3788
Joined: 10/7/2005
From: KC area Missouri
Status: offline

Just my opinion, but newbies claiming to be painsluts, no limits, etc. without any real life experience sounds like they are caught up in the frenzy and forgetting to use their brain and any sense, common or otherwise. It's stupid and potentially, extremely dangerous.

Before I tried anything r/t, I had my fantasies and curiosity about flogging, whips, paddles and all that, but I never thought to claim I was a masochist or pain slut before ever experiencing any of it. I thought I might be a lightly masochistic, but I had no way of knowing for sure without actual physical experience. I wanted to experience it at my level and grow with it.

The first time I played, the Top and I talked for well over an hour about various things. It was at a play party surrounded by people we both knew and in a very safe setting. He knew I had no prior experience and asked what I was curious about, what I'd like to experience in the way of s/m, etc.

He started very carefully and gradually built up stronger and harder on hits, constantly asking me for feedback. How did that feel? Did I like it? Was it too hard? Not hard enough? Did I want more? Had I had enough? What implement did I like best? What did I like least? Full, open communication before, during and after the scene. Each of the Tops I've bottomed for has done the same, initially finding out my experience, likes, dislikes, curiosities and gone from there keeping communication flowing through the scene and watching my reactions.

Now the communication is less verbal as constant verbal feedback is not needed as much between myself and those who Top me as in the beginning, but still it's there and used as needed and desired.

I definitely have to weigh in on the NEWBIES PLEASE DON'T CLAIM TO BE SOMETHING WHEN YOU HAVE NO EXPERIENCE OF IT TO GO BY side of things.

USE BRAIN. USE SENSE, COMMON, HORSE, WHATEVER.

Ok....I'm shutting up now and hoping I made sense here.

_____________________________

Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers KCSass

(in reply to SavageEu)

Post #: 28

RE: Newbies self identifying as painsluts - 7/25/2006 9:14:25 PM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline

I think there's a problem too in that people can be masochists/pain sluts and yet have a low pain tollerance. I -love- most types of pain. This doesn't mean I can take a lot of pain. My pain tollerance is fairly low as these things go. But I still love it.

I think that kind of thing creates communication issues as well. One can say "I am a masochist" completely honestly, and still not be able to take much pain.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to SweetSarijane)

Post #: 29

RE: Newbies self identifying as painsluts - 7/25/2006 9:43:50 PM

sweetnurseBBW

Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

It depends on the persons perception of "heavy". I personally like to have bruises and welts left on me for days. I enjoy not being able to sit down the right way for awhile. Not to say that is for everyone. Different people, different preferences.

(in reply to SavageEu)

Post #: 30

RE: Newbies self identifying as painsluts - 7/25/2006 10:15:36 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

LOL, she could take a good hard spanking and figured a cane wouldn't be so bad?
Pain from a cain can be extremely intense when swung fully and hard!
Spanking and caning is two different worlds!
Gee, I guess she figured out that she's not a pain slut pdq!
But, the Dom should also go slow *especially* with a cane.

(in reply to sweetnurseBBW)

Post #: 31

RE: Newbies self identifying as painsluts - 7/25/2006 10:29:51 PM

Arpig

Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
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This is so very true Angelic. Masochism is no guarantee of a high tolerance for pain.

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(in reply to perverseangelic)

Post #: 32

RE: Newbies self identifying as painsluts - 7/25/2006 11:44:24 PM

abytchgoddess4u

Posts: 268
Joined: 10/17/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetSarijane
Just my opinion, but newbies claiming to be painsluts, no limits, etc. without any real life experience sounds like they are caught up in the frenzy and forgetting to use their brain and any sense, common or otherwise. It's stupid and potentially, extremely dangerous.

I also totally agree w. this. I am constantly telling potential subs to be careful with their exploration and that the other Dommes they are talking to probably have an issue or two if they are immediately saying, "I would like to do a/b/c to you." It can be so exciting when one is *finally* trying out what one has wanted to do for years that people forget they can be permanently damaged. It even happens to experienced subs.

I have a friend who has been very "out" for years and been exploring for about 25-30yrs. Five yrs. ago, she met someone who she *really* liked and was into cutting. She had always wanted to try it, but never had. A lot of us warned her, b/c she didn't know her Top well and neither did we. Needless to say, it was a trip to the ER and she still has scars. They will probably never go away.

quote:

He started very carefully and gradually built up stronger and harder on hits, constantly asking me for feedback. How did that feel? Did I like it? Was it too hard? Not hard enough? Did I want more? Had I had enough? What implement did I like best? What did I like least? Full, open communication before, during and after the scene. Each of the Tops I've bottomed for has done the same, initially finding out my experience, likes, dislikes, curiosities and gone from there keeping communication flowing through the scene and watching my reactions.

I played for the first time in public last weekend and also played w. a total stranger for the first time as well. In addition, it was his first time being flogged. What can I say, I am new in town...;) Anyway; we had a detailed discussion before, I checked in w. him numerous times during the scene, he had a safeword, and at the end hopped off the bench, gave me a hug and went home happy. He did not safeword out...not even a yellow. All was well and I had a great time...though it was a lot more work(and I felt sort of thrown off rhythm) b/c of the constant communication.

I went easy on him, warmed him up,varied the implements, put pressure on the ones he reacted to more strongly, etc. However, I am a sadist...so my enjoyment and glee was evident, I'm sure. Afterwards, I had a couple of people come up and tell me that they thought it was beautiful but also scary. I'm like, "Huh? Really?" I was thinking to myself, "Damn, what would they think if they saw me with a regular partner!?! I can go WAAAY harder than *that*!"

I guess what I'm trying to say is that perception can vary, depending on the position you're in. I felt great about it, he was a happy little monkey, but the spectators were possibly disturbed. Who knows what the DMs woulda thought, b/c there weren't any there. Also, communication is paramount, not only in a scene, but within the relationship as a whole. If the sub can't trust the Dominant to listen to their daily woes, why should they trust that they will listen for a safeword whilst playing?

For the record, I've been playing for 15yrs and reveling in my sadism for 7 or 8. I've only had someone safeword out once.

_____________________________

"Everything in the Universe Is within you.
Ask all from yourself." Rumi

"The world will know and understand me someday. But if that day does not arrive, it does not greatly matter. I shall have opened the way for other women."
George Sand

(in reply to SweetSarijane)

Post #: 33

RE: Newbies self identifying as painsluts - 7/26/2006 12:38:01 AM

Rumtiger

Posts: 2634
Joined: 3/4/2006
From: Vegas
Status: offline

Maybe i'm a cold and heartless bastard, but i'm a little happy the newb learned her lesson the hard way, she shoulda watched out being so arrogant as to say she was something without knowing what was really out there and thinking that she was hot shit with that pain slut business.

Just my view...maybe I should cut down on the rare meat, I tend to get...aggressive.

_____________________________

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Mmm, I love me some kickboxers, you know why? Cause ya'll cant take a punch!
- Quentin Tarantino.

If they cant take a joke, fuck em.
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(in reply to abytchgoddess4u)

Post #: 34

RE: Newbies self identifying as painsluts - 7/26/2006 1:05:08 AM

SusanofO

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

Reading this has made me re-think even saying things ike "I like pain". It's been a helpful thread. Fact is, I know I like bdsm , but don't near enough experience to determine yet, whether I'd be considered a "pain slut", or even anything close to that, by an experienced Dominant. So from now on, if anyone asks me, my answer will be "No, not that I am aware of". Thanks for the thread topic!

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 35

RE: Newbies self identifying as painsluts - 7/26/2006 2:25:59 AM

swtnsparkling

Posts: 1738
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

But I AM a painslut. I took an hour long thrashing with a rabbit fur flogger, and then got 10 strokes with a crop. Granted, I collapsed, but who wouldn't with that kind of pain???????????

Laughing Benji- I just love you

Now to be serious. erin fantasic post! I so hope that any one new reads it and really takes it seriously. I Thank you for brining this up and posting it.

_____________________________

Never make anyone a priority who treats you as an option 2003

Walk in Peace

A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better than a "Yes" uttered merely to please

(in reply to gooddogbenji)

Post #: 36

RE: Newbies self identifying as painsluts - 7/26/2006 2:43:54 AM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic

I think there's a problem too in that people can be masochists/pain sluts and yet have a low pain tollerance. I -love- most types of pain. This doesn't mean I can take a lot of pain. My pain tollerance is fairly low as these things go. But I still love it.

I think that kind of thing creates communication issues as well. One can say "I am a masochist" completely honestly, and still not be able to take much pain.

Really wanted to highlight this - as I totally agree. It doesn't matter if a person is new or not. It comes down to tollerance levels and communication.

Peace and Rapture

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to perverseangelic)

Post #: 37

RE: Newbies self identifying as painsluts - 7/26/2006 3:22:52 AM

RavenMuse

Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
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A very sound piece of advice and just one more instance of how all too many newbies get their heads stuck into fantasy lala land then get a nasty awakening at the hand of reality.

Personaly I don't take much notice of where THEY say their limits are, I start light and slowly work my way up whilst watching and learning their reactions. Others do not, others will take them at face value and thus the lil' newbie is in for quite an unpleasent shock.

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 38

RE: Newbies self identifying as painsluts - 7/26/2006 3:57:23 AM

MissDiandSirHugh

Posts: 1158
Joined: 8/11/2005
From: Goondiwindi ( Qld )
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We know that the Sub was in many ways not only well and truly wrong for saying that she was a pain slut with out knowing what those two words mean to others who have not experienced it also because she did not use her safe word.
But there is also some blame we feel to go the Dom.
If he knew she was some one new to the life style and to what it involves then if he was experienced he should have known to uld have explained playenith her a lot more geting ays ns with a Sub, plus if he to was experienced then he should have ngo slow and warm her up so that she gets to understand what it involves and as he did this should have keep asking her how she felt so he could in some ways judge for him self her answers and body language..

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HoRoo for now from Us both and enjoy all you read even if you don"t agree with us or others.
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(in reply to RavenMuse)

Post #: 39

RE: Newbies self identifying as painsluts - 7/26/2006 4:25:50 AM

wandering4u

Posts: 167
Joined: 6/18/2006
Status: offline

A couple of red flags here. She 'overstated' her identification as a 'pain slut', she played on a first meeting, she did not use her safe word and the D did not use any common sense by beleiving she knew what she was saying and not going slowly into this.

This post should be nailed to the begining of evey thread as a warning! Thanks for bringing it up!

(in reply to MissDiandSirHugh)

Post #: 40

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