quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Honestly, you should know better. There's a reason this isn't called the logical forum.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

in on the waterfront, marlon brando laments "I could have been a contender."

in rocky, burgess Meredith tells stallone "you could have been a contender."

so the troll is wrong again.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: AtUrCervix



It's actually amazing (to everyone...not just me) to watch you work so hard to make your point.

I think I'll start referring to you as "BMOC" (because...I suspect it's the one thing that's important to you....that you're declared....important).


You declaring me important is really something special...shall we alert the press?

I've watched you...actually make (a few) excellent points along the way only to have others respond to you (immediately...without it seems....reading your comments...had they, they may have even been impressed) with such horrific vitriol because....you are....full of it (vitriol as well as...lack...and of course...full of...yourself).


Being right does not make me "full of myself". It makes me right.

Amazingly, if they weren't so offended by you....they might have actually heard your (occasionally...but rarely...valid) point....even now....my last statement will offend some because...they find you patently offensive (read: not at all...important).

Those with their head up their ass will often be offended by those who point it out

As someone in the Rocky movies said...."you could have been a contender!".

No dumbass that was "on the waterfront"

Dude...you are your own worst enemy (and sadly...but not at all surprisingly....your own best friend).

Truth over ignorance does tend to validate my friendship with fact over fiction.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

to be fair---I shouldn't have put mickey's (Meredith) statement in quote marks---it's a paraphrase of a sentiment he conveyed to rocky.

but the quote by brando is correct, and in referencing himself, he uses the word "I."

...and thompson's still a insufferable troll.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

I think many things about him, and its either to my discredit, or an observation of reality, but none of them are kind.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird

Hello again,

I can appreciate your comment that "I was too busy making money to take Econ 101," but you are apparently no too deft at reading your own comments, a la 'it's Econ 101' which such observation of yours is what I was responding to vis the Econ 101 and 401 thereby. You've already made it plain that you can't understand why not everybody is not just like you, and fuck them if they aren't, and they deserve to be living under a bridge because they were born to be less aggressive on their way to max dollars and Olympic pools in the house, but instead just wanted to do a job and get home at the end of the day. No one denies your fascination with matters materiel, nor would I or any thinking person deny you thereby.

But you've yet to explain in any fathomable way what your personal fascination has anything to do with society, or to people who might have other considerations forefront. Like culture, like taking joy in less expensive things, like taking joy in the children, not wanting anything to do with castles, etc. How mundane all that to those whose god is mammon.

I won't argue that that those without college ed can't become quite wealthy, we've seen that all along, and congrats to you in your endeavor to such single-mindedness as to exclude any other consideration but your own in the process. But if we're going that route, most of the multi-billionaires have at least a BA or BS, just saying, Bill Gates and Thomas Edison excepting. But you aren't them, nor nearly as useful. Nor are the 'activist' investors such as Carl Icahn or what's his name or other corporate cash raiders and hedge funds, etc. of whom had nothing to do with the company's success by dint of all their hard work to do the research and testing and prototypes and the IPO upon finding success. So now here come the Icahn and the hedge funds 'demanding more!' and stomping their feet, as 'reward' for merely gathering enough funds from others to buy enough shares to be a thorn in the butt to what was theretofore a useful venture.

After all that, I don't know where you are coming from with the property tax being a state matter, when it's been a local matter anywhere I've lived. Maybe you need to get out more, broaden the perspective, etc.
\

As to subsidies, price supports, etc.

Favoritism has been around for decades and centuries and millennia, sorry you missed further history studies. This is what is so hilarious about latter day Libertarians, their ignorance of any history and the understanding of how society actually works (and doesn't work).

Europe is indeed worse than the US when it comes to 'farm' subsidies, but in the US that is in fact a ruse for tax dollars to Monsanto and Archer Daniels Midland and Koch Bros. and Cargill, etc. The 'farmers' are only the bag men for the aforementioned. Pay attention.

Once it is understood that we are a ways yet from eliminating any and all subsidies, would you argue against starting down the line with those subsidies which undermine international relations and domestic security at once?

So yes, eliminate all subsidies, but let's start with the least needed and actually the most harmful today.

Which would be those betrothed to the oil companies.

As much as I hate the 'farm' (agro-chem) subsidies, and all the damage they do to struggling countries just trying to grow some cotton in Africa, how is subsidizing an (oil) industry that has been in full wealth for over a century already and done nothing but completely fuck up the Middle East since 1918 and is in fact responsible for escalating the unrest in Western countries for the last 15 years supposed to do us any good?

If taking all into account, including all the foreign and domestic loss of life, the phenomenal increase in 'defense' spending in service to oil considerations and, (I know this is more important to you) tax dollars to that purpose, then I don't get where we are seeing the best return on investment; to you, to me, to the US, or anyone else. They completely eff'ed up domestic city transit outside of NYC and Chicago, while at it, sucking federal dollars and destroying local dollars in the effort. That's not counted in the historical accounting of subsidies to the oil companies, aside the death and wars.

Oh right, you were too busy making money to read any history, too. Sorry for the imposition, there.

To reiterate: We've got to start somewhere, and my vote is that we eliminate providing funds by way of subsides and then military support (the far more expensive subsidy) to those doing the greatest damage, first.


You are welcome to argue against.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird

Hello again,

(Mine...in blue).

I can appreciate your comment that "I was too busy making money to take Econ 101," (my apologies...that now looks a bit rude/arrogant but...I was....in fact....far too busy and...I didn't {"take..."}...because....{well...it's a bit circuitous in the end}...let's move on) but you are apparently no too deft at reading your own comments, a la 'it's Econ 101' which such observation of yours is what I was responding to vis the Econ 101 and 401 thereby (I'm not perfect). You've already made it plain that you can't understand why not everybody is not just like you (I hope that's not how I came across...however...to be fair...it does actually...amaze me), and fuck them if they aren't, and they deserve to be living under a bridge (now THAT...I never said or ever presumed) because they were born to be less aggressive on their way to max dollars and Olympic pools in the house (I don't have one of those, nor do I presume that everyone should...I drive a piece of shit car {under most folks assumptions}, and my house is somewhat mundane), but instead just wanted to do a job and get home at the end of the day (many of my staff are exactly as you described...they're exceptional....hard working...fabulous {and stunningly well paid} people). No one denies your fascination with matters materiel, nor would I or any thinking person deny you thereby.

But you've yet to explain in any fathomable way what your personal fascination has anything to do with society, or to people who might have other considerations forefront. Like culture, like taking joy in less expensive things, like taking joy in the children, not wanting anything to do with castles, etc. How mundane all that to those whose god is mammon.

Beyond excellent...spectacular...amazing and....fantastic: I love art. I buy a lot of it (nothing like you read about in magazines by any measure)...I buy what I like. I have a standing order for a specific amount ($) of art from an artist I happen to find fascinating. Her art speaks to me (I met her when I was 11...she was wearing a craaaaazy bikini....she was 19...transfer student from Norway...it was a transitional moment for me...a young male at 11..:) :) :) ....and I put it in both...my income producing buildings as well as my home. I also put other art in both places.

As to society...I don't owe them anything (nor do you...over and above what you pay to the feds...unless you opt to....(and...I do...opt to....far more than most)...I pay my taxes and...as shown below, take care of local issues as I find them meaningful (far more on a % basis than most....thankfully...I've been given a lot so...I do give back) and...I'm hardly a scion so....my debt to society at this point is a bit smaller than some may presume (but...I do pay it and...in far more amounts than many....possibly less than others). However...I do donate to local causes...it's less than 1% of my annual income...substantially more than most Americans donate to similar causes but....my income's a bit higher than most so...I do what I believe in.

Joy; in less expensive things: My car is a bit older than some would presume is appropriate for my income but...it gets me from point A to B....and....I don't get a woody from what people think of me (I just like not paying a mortgage...sue me). And as to children...see above and below...I give where I can...and desire to. I haven't given anything to unwed mothers or suicide prevention (I know...I'm going to Hell).

Castles....I don't own one....or anything that even looks like one. If you drove up to my home...you'd be certain I have a mortgage.

God and mammon...oddly enough (for those who doubt) I believe in God...and I LOOOOVE Christianity.....I don't however....believe in (or have much respect at all for) Christians.

(Assume what you like on that last comment).

I won't argue that that those without college ed can't become quite wealthy (au contraire mes amis...I don't have a college degree and..few who have...have done well...as to percentage)., we've seen that all along, and congrats to you in your endeavor to such single-mindedness as to exclude any other consideration but your own in the process (ahhh....but I did not...you presume....because you assign the same values to all people who have done well...with certain values....that...actually...few hold...and...along the way....even in my worst hours....during 2008 - 2013....I lost more money than most will make in a lifetime and yet....every local (nearby) Little League team did well....not as well as years prior to the world ending but...something...every year. But if we're going that route, most of the multi-billionaires (that would very much exclude me) have at least a BA or BS, just saying, Bill Gates and Thomas Edison excepting. But you aren't them (and I never claimed to be), nor nearly as useful (and I never claimed to be). Nor are the 'activist' investors such as Carl Icahn or what's his name (you got it right) or other corporate cash raiders and hedge funds (be careful....NEVER presume that solely because someone holds the headlines....that they only play for the wealthy...they caused shareholder values to rise....they play a game FAR above my pay scale but....they play for billionaires AND small {200 share and lower} shareholders....be careful...they play for Mom and Pop, equally as often as they play for billionaires), etc. of whom had nothing to do with the company's success by dint of all their hard work to do the research and testing and prototypes and the IPO upon finding success (I can see why you'd believe that...it has less than zero basis...in fact but...I can see why you believe that...as most do). So now here come the Icahn and the hedge funds 'demanding more!' and stomping their feet, as 'reward' for merely gathering enough funds from others to buy enough shares to be a thorn in the butt to what was theretofore a useful venture. More....for who(whom?)? Shareholders (some of which are exceedingly wealthy....most of whom however...own 30 shares....100 shares....500 shares....Mr and Mrs America by EVERY definition....and almost entirely....that.

After all that, I don't know where you are coming from with the property tax being a state matter, when it's been a local matter anywhere I've lived. Maybe you need to get out more, broaden the perspective, etc.

Property tax is a state matter. That's it. ##END##

As to subsidies, price supports, etc.

(That wasn't a question...when it is...I'll answer it).

Favoritism has been around for decades and centuries and millennia, sorry you missed further history studies (fuuuuck...sorry...I TOTALLY slipped there...I was probably trying to crush competition at the time, or destroy capitalism....fuuuuuck me....GAWWWWD....I feel like a TOTAL DICK!!! DA PHUQ was I THINKING!!!! ????). This is what is so hilarious about latter day Libertarians, their ignorance of any history and the understanding of how society actually works (and doesn't work).

Funny thing is...(and you kind of got me on this one)....I was born in 1958....I SPECIFICALLY told ALL my instructors..."do not EVER inform me of ANYTHING that happened after 1850....I just don't want to fucking hear about it".....and thankfully....they never did. All that shit with Nixon....I know NOTHING. The whole 18.937% interest (and 12.63% inflation) in 1981 (and my very first home....October 11, 1981...16.22% interest...a complete blur).......I got nothing on that. I'm like a vacuum of NOTHINGNESS on that entire period.

Reagan...8 entire blur years.

That whole "Perot....IF he could get elected" thing....I'm not even sure how I typed that last sentence because....well....I think my keyboard was actually making up letters....

Europe is indeed worse than the US when it comes to 'farm' subsidies (beyond my pay grade....sorry), but in the US that is in fact a ruse for tax dollars to Monsanto and Archer Daniels Midland and Koch Bros. and Cargill, etc. The 'farmers' are only the bag men for the aforementioned. Pay attention. (Can't argue....wouldn't argue....I'm not smart enough....sorry...can't offer anything useful here).

Once it is understood that we are a ways yet from eliminating any and all subsidies, would you argue against starting down the line with those subsidies which undermine international relations and domestic security at once?

Again...waaaaaay outside my pay grade however...if I were to argue for any subsidies (and I wouldn't...because I don't know enough to do so)...I'd argue for those that created jobs here and for those that minimized our trade deficit.

So yes, eliminate all subsidies, but let's start with the least needed and actually the most harmful today.

Hmmm....sounds a bit conflicting actually (in the sentence format you posed it) but....I think your premises sounds generally alright.

(Jeeeesuz fucking H dude....THIS is a bit fucking LONG dontcha think????).

Which would be those betrothed to the oil companies.

Maybe...sure....huh?

As much as I hate the 'farm' (agro-chem) subsidies, and all the damage they do to struggling countries just trying to grow some cotton in Africa, how is subsidizing an (oil) industry that has been in full wealth for over a century already and done nothing but completely fuck up the Middle East since 1918 and is in fact responsible for escalating the unrest in Western countries for the last 15 years supposed to do us any good?

Hey....talk to the folks in power....I only take my mail here. As to how the "big" agg companies have added (or detracted) value...I'll leave that to history. Me? I couldn't boil water (dude..I can't even cook rice) but....when I see corn grown on the same acreage as previously....producing 3 times what it did prior to science (with the SAME amount of water)....I'm thinking....with another 3 billion just around the corner...I'll leave it to those far smarter than me to determine that which is best. I don't know SHIT on this subject and....debating me on it is an entire waste of time. Seriously....if the word "Moron" was used properly...it would apply to me....here.

If taking all into account, including all the foreign and domestic loss of life, the phenomenal increase in 'defense' spending in service to oil considerations and, (I know this is more important to you {actually...it's not}) tax dollars to that purpose, then I don't get where we are seeing the best return on investment; to you, to me, to the US, or anyone else. (Well, the best "return on investment" doesn't have anything to do with what oil companies {or pharmaceutical companies....or agg companies} spend their money on because....that's where THEY make their money....what are YOU doing to invest/make money? Why do you give a rats ass what they do? What are YOU doing...for YOUR future? Fuck what they're doing...what are YOU doing??). They completely eff'ed up domestic city transit outside of NYC and Chicago, while at it, sucking federal dollars and destroying local dollars in the effort. That's not counted in the historical accounting of subsidies to the oil companies, aside the death and wars.

You're FAR too focused on how the BIG company's are fucking you (and how you should...by some amazing historical event....NOT be fucked by them)....first "red" comment!. They're always going to fuck you. DUDE!!!! You watch the news....yeah? Ever seen a day when the BIG guys come out and say...."Hey....uhhh...Edwird...guess what? Today....and for the next 36 months...we are NO LONGER going to FUCK you in your PUCKERED POOPY HOLE!"...BUY EVERYTHING....this IS your moment!!!"

No? Oh....well then...you're kind of like everyone else....CALLED OUT to read the motherfucking papers!!!

EDUCATE yourself....it ain't my job and it sure as fuck ain't Monsanto's job. (Second red post).

Oh right, you were too busy making money to read any history, too. Sorry for the imposition, there.

(See above).

To reiterate: We've got to start somewhere, and my vote is that we eliminate providing funds by way of subsides and then military support (the far more expensive subsidy) to those doing the greatest damage, first.

In this world...I'd probably argue against lessening military funding (it'd be nice if everyone would concur on your proposal but...until they do....bullets have some value)...and...for absolute clarity...your mortgage is a subsidy...as are many other....very useful things...

You are welcome to argue against.

(Thank you for your offer....I believe I just did).

(Third {and final} red comment).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird

We aren't as far apart as you might think.

(I never believed we were).

I appreciate your honesty, and I hope you understand mine.

This isn't about you vs. me, or about one vs. another.

But I read lots of history long before I came upon economics, and my admittedly fallible notion of things as derived from both ventures has it that society provides the physical and legal means and infrastructure for all else.

Too many people don't know that there are in fact billionaires also in Sweden and France, etc. They whine less, while making a bunch of money nevertheless. (sorry for the bad rhyme, there)

(I'm confident that most are aware there are billionaires in all countries).

What I truly do not understand about multi-millionaires in the UK and the US and S America and else where is why -some- (certainly not all) of them sit at the side of their indoor Olympic pool or Caribbean beach chair sipping $800/bottle cognac and instead of relaxing and enjoying it, then commence to bitching about poor people. And then vote for politicians who get elected by promises of making poor people suffer much more if they have anything to do with it. "Sick Fucking Bastards Club," is the only way to read that.

Well....what you (and most) don't understand about billionaires....(and millionaires) is....they ain't no different from you and I....they just invest differently and....most started out exactly like.....you and I.

In some cases.....(actually....nearly all)....they started out with, in fact, far less....and for the record..you'd be amazed (as would most...{if they stopped presuming..and actually read some of the docs that show where these folks actually spend their money}....how many donate well beyond 20%, 30% and in some cases..nearly all their excess...to help global (and in most cases....local) causes.

I don't donate 20%....or even 10% to global (or local) causes...but every one of the folks that you mentioned....in two separate posts....do.

I didn't get the geist of all this from econ courses, all that did was to fill out some details.

For the record; the BEST advice, and the KINDEST, most generous people as to giving me some (advice) have been millionaires (I have yet to meet a billionaire).

I have come across a number of 'people of wealth' who do not fit the above description, but I get invited to the parties sometimes, and become both amused and bewildered that some such born losers as I happen upon conversation with got to where they are.

Aggressiveness is what matters in that pursuit. I and millions of others focus more on good social manners, don't expect any apology for that, and you and all others are welcome to your own way too.

(Actually...aggressiveness is rarely the deciding factor as to wealth.

Thinking....and planning is).

(Final red comment)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

Hmmmm, if "renewables" have plunging prices maybe the fed should quit funding the majority of the operational costs of renewable energy projects.
It has been a while since I looked at real numbers on renewable energy sources. About a decade ago they were a hugely expensive boondoggle without the federal subsidy.