RE: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report (Full Version)

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Lucylastic -> RE: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report (4/16/2017 6:40:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC

Just something for you electric car advocates to think about. Where does the electricity come from to recharge your car battery? COAL.

Green energy isn't so green now, is it?



Heres a clue for you. According to the gov web site,
here are the percentages of each form of electricity production in the US from 2016
Major energy sources and percent shares of U.S. electricity generation at utility-scale facilities in 20161

Natural gas = 33.8%
Coal = 30.4%
Nuclear = 19.7%
Renewables = 14.9%
1.Hydropower = 6.5%
2.Wind = 5.6%
3.Biomass = 1.5%
4.Solar = 0.9%
5.Geothermal = 0.4%
Petroleum = 0.6%
Other gases = 0.3%
Other nonrenewable sources = 0.3%
Pumped storage hydroelectricity = -0.2%4


https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3




vincentML -> RE: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report (4/16/2017 6:55:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC

Just something for you electric car advocates to think about. Where does the electricity come from to recharge your car battery? COAL.

Green energy isn't so green now, is it?


FUEL CELLS




thompsonx -> RE: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report (4/16/2017 8:39:23 AM)


ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC

Some here will be surprised to hear me say that solar energy is a viable option for individual homes to get them off the grid.
However, on a large scale such as towns or cities, solar energy isn't very practical.

Look up the topaz unit. It is nine sq. mi. that is three miles on a side. It produces electricity for 75,000 homes. If all roofs in a city have solar panels that feed
storage facilities how does that not work?


Fossil fuels will be with us for a long time.

As long as the fossil fuel lobby have money to bribe politicians.


Battery-powered cars might work but how far can they go till the battery runs out our need recharging?


Tesla model s goes 300 mi on a charge and will recharge to 75% in 15 minutes. Tesla has a proof of concept battery exchange that can change out a battery in 90 seconds.

For long trips gasoline
or diesel engines are the most efficient. Ic motors are about 5% efffecient...electric motors somewhat more.

And finally, ask yourself if you will be first in line to board a solar powered airplane or wind powered airplane.

There are already electric powered private two seaters on the market that are faa compliant.





MasterBrentC -> RE: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report (4/16/2017 8:49:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC

Just something for you electric car advocates to think about. Where does the electricity come from to recharge your car battery? COAL.

Green energy isn't so green now, is it?



Heres a clue for you. According to the gov web site,
here are the percentages of each form of electricity production in the US from 2016
Major energy sources and percent shares of U.S. electricity generation at utility-scale facilities in 20161

Natural gas = 33.8%
Coal = 30.4%
Nuclear = 19.7%
Renewables = 14.9%
1.Hydropower = 6.5%
2.Wind = 5.6%
3.Biomass = 1.5%
4.Solar = 0.9%
5.Geothermal = 0.4%
Petroleum = 0.6%
Other gases = 0.3%
Other nonrenewable sources = 0.3%
Pumped storage hydroelectricity = -0.2%4


https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3


Thanks for proving my poiny, Lucy. Renewable sources aren't even half of the energy produced by coal. And if electric or battery operated cars become popular (not in my house) how much are you willing to pay for the electricity needed to recharge your car? Fossil fuels are much cheaper to operate than electric or battery-powered cars.




Musicmystery -> RE: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report (4/16/2017 8:54:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC

Another problem with solar farms and wind farms..... Solar farms super heat the air above them that cook any birds that fly into the zone. Windmills kill birds when they fly into the blades. What do you suppose PITA will have to say about thaf?

Why not just use the newer ones with internal blades?




Lucylastic -> RE: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report (4/16/2017 8:56:07 AM)

you said electricity comes from coal.
you didnt mention the others why?
obfuscation>




Lucylastic -> RE: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report (4/16/2017 8:57:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC

Another problem with solar farms and wind farms..... Solar farms super heat the air above them that cook any birds that fly into the zone. Windmills kill birds when they fly into the blades. What do you suppose PITA will have to say about thaf?

Why not just use the newer ones with internal blades?

snot like oil and or coal ever killed birds...




thompsonx -> RE: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report (4/16/2017 9:11:13 AM)


ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC


Thanks for proving my poiny, Lucy. Renewable sources aren't even half of the energy produced by coal.


According to the stats posted renewables are just less than half that of coal. In the thirty years that I have been on solar the price of
solar has dropped from $8 per watt to less than .50 cents per watt. How much longer will it be before solar exceeds coal?



And if electric or battery operated cars become popular (not in my house) how much are you willing to pay for the electricity needed to recharge
your car? Fossil fuels are much cheaper to operate than electric or battery-powered cars.

The new tesla s has a 100 kw battery that will take it over three hundred miles. The commercial rate for electricity is a little less than .06 cents per kw.
That is $6 for 300 miles. An ic engine will average 25 mpg thus taking twelve gallons of gasoline or diesel for the same three hundred miles at $3 per gallon. Six dollars for electricity or $36 for
gasoline or diesel.
Jesus you are phoquing stupid.






AtUrCervix -> RE: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report (4/17/2017 1:51:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

80 miles, if chargers were everywhere I went, would be sufficient for all but pleasure trips.

Even then, if a charge took 20-30 minutes, totally worth it.

I know Tesla has a huge new battery facility. Maybe they'll extend it affordably.


My dentist says (he bought one of those cars...it's pretty fancy...leather everything) he gets 250 miles+ on a charge (I think his round trip is 70 or so...and I built a charging thing for him at the office...he paid for it...just a simple 110 thing...with his special hookup plug thing.

I think I read the other day that someone (one of the big names...Toyota / FORD...someone) will have a 275 mile charge vehicle for sale in 2018 for under 40 grand.

If you think about it....(if you're actually one of those types that cleans your car regularly/uses armor-all...that kind of thing...I'm not one of those types)...an electric car (but for the batteries)...NEVER gets old...no carbon deposits...no engine to die...just electric brushes that...pretty much never fry....that car will get you 500,000 miles or (a lot) more.

Me...when they have a mini van (sue me) that gets 650 miles on a charge that can be recharged on a 110 in 6 hours....I'm in. I just can't imagine wanting to go a full 12 hours on the road and not being able to....not that I would (often) but...I may want to.

There was a FORD (google it...it's fucking hot) mini van prototype car a few years back....designed on the whatever that trailer was that was all aluminum...tube like...something "stream"....GORGEOUS car.....if they made that thing in a hybrid or electric...I'd be in for 3 of them.





AtUrCervix -> RE: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report (4/17/2017 1:52:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


"Battery electric cars — those that run solely on electricity — are the cleanest and least expensive to operate. But they typically get only about 80 miles of driving range on a full charge (Tesla's Model S is the exception, traveling more than 250 miles on a charge, but it typically sells for about $100,000.)"

but maybe they have improved them since then.


Base model tesla model s start at $62,000.
Look on ebay and craigs list to find fully equipped tesla model s in the 50-60 k range.




Base model is under 40K.




AtUrCervix -> RE: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report (4/17/2017 1:58:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC

Just something for you electric car advocates to think about. Where does the electricity come from to recharge your car battery? COAL.

Green energy isn't so green now, is it?


It's changing and....as MM stated some posts a while back (solar)....it's getting cheaper.

I think you're not gonna see oil above 60 bucks for a loooooong time because...every day....both solar...and battery storage...are getting cheaper.

Even if the majors put some kind of stranglehold on things....DIY is going to cause a lot of folks to sign up for / build something....just to feed their house and then....it ain't a big move to say..."Honey...let's add a bit more to our grid for the car".





Nnanji -> RE: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report (4/17/2017 2:35:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

you said electricity comes from coal.
you didnt mention the others why?
obfuscation>


Oh Lucy. Grid ties with renewables are pretty iffy things due to the scientific state of power storage. Most of the "excess" electricity that goes onto the grid is from large coal plants. It's a pretty well known fact. It's one thing to cut and paste from some place. It's another understanding what is cut and paste.




Nnanji -> RE: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report (4/17/2017 2:39:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AtUrCervix


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

80 miles, if chargers were everywhere I went, would be sufficient for all but pleasure trips.

Even then, if a charge took 20-30 minutes, totally worth it.

I know Tesla has a huge new battery facility. Maybe they'll extend it affordably.


My dentist says (he bought one of those cars...it's pretty fancy...leather everything) he gets 250 miles+ on a charge (I think his round trip is 70 or so...and I built a charging thing for him at the office...he paid for it...just a simple 110 thing...with his special hookup plug thing.

I think I read the other day that someone (one of the big names...Toyota / FORD...someone) will have a 275 mile charge vehicle for sale in 2018 for under 40 grand.

If you think about it....(if you're actually one of those types that cleans your car regularly/uses armor-all...that kind of thing...I'm not one of those types)...an electric car (but for the batteries)...NEVER gets old...no carbon deposits...no engine to die...just electric brushes that...pretty much never fry....that car will get you 500,000 miles or (a lot) more.

Me...when they have a mini van (sue me) that gets 650 miles on a charge that can be recharged on a 110 in 6 hours....I'm in. I just can't imagine wanting to go a full 12 hours on the road and not being able to....not that I would (often) but...I may want to.

There was a FORD (google it...it's fucking hot) mini van prototype car a few years back....designed on the whatever that trailer was that was all aluminum...tube like...something "stream"....GORGEOUS car.....if they made that thing in a hybrid or electric...I'd be in for 3 of them.



Google how long tesla batteries last. You have to swap out the batteries every 125,000 miles at $30,000 a pop. Which is basically buying a new car every 125,000 miles. And, by the time of the swap you're only getting about half the new mileage.




mnottertail -> RE: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report (4/17/2017 2:46:43 PM)

Yeah, there is no credible data that concludes oversupply is by coal. In fact, coal plants are retiring and shutting down fairly steadily, with the pollution control costs exceeding the cost and effort to switch to other fuels.

And there is no huge oversupply of electricity, because they can ramp up and throttle down the supply, and supply and demand is pretty well known, since power brokering has existed like forever on the grid.

Standby generators are generally not coal, they take a while to get online, mostly is gas and hydro, for near instant supply.

power brokers (the guys who look at computer screens in their local area and across the nation to determine their next hours needs trying to buy excess low and sell it high, its a pretty interesting day or night.




Musicmystery -> RE: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report (4/17/2017 2:49:34 PM)

"As of 2016 by far the largest form of grid energy storage on grids is dammed hydroelectricity, with both conventional hydroelectric generation as well as pumped storage."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid_energy_storage




Nnanji -> RE: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report (4/17/2017 3:03:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

"As of 2016 by far the largest form of grid energy storage on grids is dammed hydroelectricity, with both conventional hydroelectric generation as well as pumped storage."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid_energy_storage

Sure, Washington has lots of hydroelectric. They need it all to heat homes in the winter and in summer it's mostly excess.




Nnanji -> RE: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report (4/17/2017 3:06:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yeah, there is no credible data that concludes oversupply is by coal. In fact, coal plants are retiring and shutting down fairly steadily, with the pollution control costs exceeding the cost and effort to switch to other fuels.

And there is no huge oversupply of electricity, because they can ramp up and throttle down the supply, and supply and demand is pretty well known, since power brokering has existed like forever on the grid.

Standby generators are generally not coal, they take a while to get online, mostly is gas and hydro, for near instant supply.

power brokers (the guys who look at computer screens in their local area and across the nation to determine their next hours needs trying to buy excess low and sell it high, its a pretty interesting day or night.


Mental patient, since you never would know a credible source, I'll just let you fret on that. I said something, if you think it's not correct, cite something else. (Silly me expecting you to actually cite something relevant. But there ya go.)




Nnanji -> RE: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report (4/17/2017 3:09:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

"As of 2016 by far the largest form of grid energy storage on grids is dammed hydroelectricity, with both conventional hydroelectric generation as well as pumped storage."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid_energy_storage

Oh, and I wasn't talking about stored energy. Down in the basement of every energy company in the U.S. Is a group of people trying to balance their loads. They buy and sell electricity back and forth 24/7. The best source of extra energy is the coal plants. The extra energy mostly used in my area is bought from a coal plant in Montana for instance.




mnottertail -> RE: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report (4/17/2017 5:48:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yeah, there is no credible data that concludes oversupply is by coal. In fact, coal plants are retiring and shutting down fairly steadily, with the pollution control costs exceeding the cost and effort to switch to other fuels.

And there is no huge oversupply of electricity, because they can ramp up and throttle down the supply, and supply and demand is pretty well known, since power brokering has existed like forever on the grid.

Standby generators are generally not coal, they take a while to get online, mostly is gas and hydro, for near instant supply.

power brokers (the guys who look at computer screens in their local area and across the nation to determine their next hours needs trying to buy excess low and sell it high, its a pretty interesting day or night.


Mental patient, since you never would know a credible source, I'll just let you fret on that. I said something, if you think it's not correct, cite something else. (Silly me expecting you to actually cite something relevant. But there ya go.)

Cockgargler, you havent ever not ever cited a credible source, and as retarded as you are, I dont fret and will post what I please to retarded people such as you, your never having facts at hand nor relevence other than felchgobbling factless nutsuckerisms in anything you have posted.

One of the signs of your mental deficiency is thinking that the voices in your head telling you that you are somehow relevant and smarter than an imbecile are somehow credible citations.




mnottertail -> RE: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report (4/17/2017 5:54:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

"As of 2016 by far the largest form of grid energy storage on grids is dammed hydroelectricity, with both conventional hydroelectric generation as well as pumped storage."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid_energy_storage

Oh, and I wasn't talking about stored energy. Down in the basement of every energy company in the U.S. Is a group of people trying to balance their loads. They buy and sell electricity back and forth 24/7. The best source of extra energy is the coal plants. The extra energy mostly used in my area is bought from a coal plant in Montana for instance.

The worst source for extra energy is coal plants. And I dont give a glimmer of a fuck where you live, most of your energy does not come from a single coal plant in Montana, those auctions are minute by minute, hour by hour. I been in those rooms, not many in the basement, I have programmed those computers. Since that is the lifeblood of the power companies, that grid, forecasting and runs into the multimillion dollars an hour even in a town the size of fergus falls mn its about a million an hour, bad beats of a quarter million dollars are not uncommon. No, they are paid well, and that distribution and forecasting room is quite comfortable, well lit (if you want it) and snacks and diversions betwixt times aplenty. They probably work a very intense 20 minutes an hour, 10 before and 10 near the end of it, and the rest of the time who knows, they are on facebook or collarme or watching tv or reading the WSJ, or talking on the phone with the girlfriends.





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