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RE: How should fake News be Punished? - 4/5/2017 7:35:18 AM   
InfoMan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

sounds far too much like an implausible "ministry of truth" to me.

among other things, education is supposed to provide us with the tools of thinking, and therefore an ability in making decisions and discernments for ourselves when it comes to such matters.

the marketplace dialog about the quality of sources is a good, but even then, just by looking around here you can see how fraught with foibles that is.


The problem is that 'News' is no longer 'information'.
It is a form of entertainment...

If it was just 'information' then the most popular news outlets should be CSPAN and AP - because they produce information and little else. But they are anything but, as people switch the channel, change websites, or turn the page to something else. Something which provides information which has been aggregated, manipulated, molded, and presented in a way for it to be consumed by viewers. This is why major news outlets employ Analysts, producers, and other professionals which trawl through ratings and data ultimately deciding what gets column inches or air time.

The fact that there is no third party rating system allows them to be manipulative as hell - presenting non-information in such a way that more or less forces you to draw their conclusions through your own observations. Educated as people may be - there is no getting above that. If there was - then there wouldn't be so many michael bay or m night shyamalan films out there.

But ultimately - the point i was trying to get at is that the Major News Networks are focused on Ratings more then they are focused on Facts. This is because getting facts wrong, being deceitful, or overly manipulative in no way negatively impacts them, as they can just apologize and seem even more trust worthy afterwords, because it is human to admit that you got it wrong.

We need a system which doesn't correct the fake news - but instead corrects the consumption of it.

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RE: How should fake News be Punished? - 4/5/2017 7:51:30 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

sounds far too much like an implausible "ministry of truth" to me.

among other things, education is supposed to provide us with the tools of thinking, and therefore an ability in making decisions and discernments for ourselves when it comes to such matters.

the marketplace dialog about the quality of sources is a good, but even then, just by looking around here you can see how fraught with foibles that is.



Because it's not a dialogue. It's monologues plugging their ears and trying to shout over one another.

And you aren't Mr. Open Ears. When's the last time you changed your mind after new evidence ever?

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RE: How should fake News be Punished? - 4/5/2017 9:53:39 AM   
tweakabelle


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Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

I hope they rape your whole family. Know why ?


NO. And I don't care why. This is not free speech - this is incitement to the one of the worst forms of violence.

The sentiments stated here is just so repulsive, so offensive that it is impossible for me to think of any situation or cause that might justify or lend any respectability to them - they are indefensible. This is a perfect example of why hate speech shouldn't be tolerated in any civilised society.



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RE: How should fake News be Punished? - 4/5/2017 10:23:54 AM   
blnymph


Posts: 1605
Joined: 11/13/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: InfoMan

You shouldn't.

Punishing 'Fake News' is easily manipulated into 'Oppression' and 'Censorship' which results in that news gaining a degree of credibility.

Instead - there should be a federally funded independent bi-partisan organization who's sole duty is to observe and fact check major news organizations and outlets which then assigns a standardized 'credibility rating' which is updated every few days/week. Then - if you wish to be a news outlet - it would become mandatory that you present this Rating on all news media you produce. This function would inform consumers of news, allowing them to form their own conclusions... do you continue to watch a News Outlet that has a Credibility Rating that is below 50? Would you be inclined watch one that had differing opinions but had a credibility above 80?

This credibility rating would directly influence viewership, and thus the companies themselves would have to uphold themselves to a higher standard, or else suffer great losses in potential income as people whom feel that their broadcast becomes less and less trust worthy change to a different channel...





The new law is not about news outlets but social networks used as platforms to spread "fake news" and hate messages and their denying responsibility to remove them (including all links, shares etc) on their own. They have not to censor anything. The posts in question are illegal under court order for damage of personal rights.

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RE: How should fake News be Punished? - 4/5/2017 12:16:01 PM   
Termyn8or


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Joined: 11/12/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

I hope they rape your whole family. Know why ?


NO. And I don't care why. This is not free speech - this is incitement to the one of the worst forms of violence.

The sentiments stated here is just so repulsive, so offensive that it is impossible for me to think of any situation or cause that might justify or lend any respectability to them - they are indefensible. This is a perfect example of why hate speech shouldn't be tolerated in any civilised society.




You want to let them in your country, your home, whatever happens to you is your problem. I never used to lock my doors but I do now. Want to know the reason ?

Stay the fuck away from most people. I am very selective about who I let in the garage, let alone the house.

And BTW, the truth is not hate speech.

T^T

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: How should fake News be Punished? - 4/5/2017 6:46:54 PM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline 		i don't disagree with a lot you said, but im seeing a similarity (to at least a small extent) between what youd be hoping for and fact checker sites or places like snopes.

in my experience, those places aren't always right either, and I cant imagine another version of it being any better. plus given the immensity of stuff out there, I cant believe logistically it would be done without some very large bureaucracy that I wouldn't want my tax dollars supporting.

im also not sure, for a work like this, that such a thing as "bi-partisan" could exist. unless youre talking a sort of siskel and ebert approach to everything.

for me, the final arbitration still lies with the individual.


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RE: How should fake News be Punished? - 4/5/2017 9:06:54 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Termyn8or


I hope Russia or China invades and takes over your country.

What countries have russia or china invaded and taken over?


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RE: How should fake News be Punished? - 4/5/2017 9:23:45 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: vincentML
Our free speech in the Bill of Rights prohibits the government from prosecuting what we say unless it is said under oath to a Federal Agent. So, if the government wishes to lie like fuk, yes it can. There is no guarantee against it except the ballot box. GW Bush gotta get them weapons of mass destruction outta Iraq. Was there ever a bigger lie than that? And the stupid bastards re-elected him. I couldn't imagine they could do worse but, but . . sput! then they voted for Trump! Holy shit! But the Constitution doesn't disqualify a presidential candidate for being a howling sociopathic liar.



Wasn't it eisenhower who said "we know nothing of a gary powers or an airplane called the u2"
Wasn't it kennedy who said he knew nothing about an invasion of cuba at the bay of pigs?
Wasn't it lbj who told us of the attack on an an amerikan ship in the gulf of tonkin?
Just as bush&co told us of yellow cake and weapons of mass deception. What should be done to such as these who produce "fake news"?

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RE: How should fake News be Punished? - 4/6/2017 11:45:20 AM   
Termyn8or


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Joined: 11/12/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: Termyn8or


I hope Russia or China invades and takes over your country.

What countries have russia or china invaded and taken over?




Well, China took Tibet. They also wield great power over a few other countries, as if they have puppet governments like we do. Korea, Singapore and so forth.

The Soviets took over a good piece of eastern Europe but that is over now. However, many have doubts about the election in Crimea, and many do not know that Georgia actually asked Russia for help. So many see it as they took over. Seems to me the People were willing. There is a difference here.

We installed the Shah of Iran, Pinochet, a few others. We interfered with many governments in South America as well, and that is why we got HFCS instead of real sugar.

For a bigger country to exercise undue influence on a smaller country can be considered taking over. Like with Brexit, the Brits got sick of outside rule and want their sovereignty back. And I don't blame them.

Are you in the US ? If so, do you want other countries to have a big effect on our laws ? I resent the fact that the feds cannot make pot legal because of a treaty, but my argument is moot on that because it was the US that proposed that treaty.

Free trade agreement that limit or prohibit certain tariffs etc. should have never been signed. Big business lobbied for most of that bullshit to increase their profits. And private Citizens living abroad have to pay US taxes on every dime they make there, but not companies.

This shit has to end. All of it. We need a whole different kind of people in government. Our whole infrastructure is becoming not viable, and that includes education which is quite important.

And the media has people fooled. We are so great. But they voted for Trump to "Make it great again". That is because they know, they know there are no real jobs. With today's prices if you want to live you have to make about $75,000 a year, and jobs like that are very scarce. You make less, you just survive.

I am tired of surviving. They say the economy is fine but yeah, for about a hundred families. I used to take like seven people to a good restaurant and treat. We used to have dinner parties with filet mignon, we paid for everything including the beer and weed. We smashed a car we just went and bought another one. I want my old job back, and the prices back then. I want to turn back the hands of time actually. But of course that is not happening.

And they say thi9ngs could not be better. Yeah, for blue eyed people who get on TV and in the movies and never really work but make more money than engineers. Scumbags, and so are the people they work for. Things are great for them. The rest of us actually have to do something useful to make money.

And let's not even get into politicians, they can't fucking do anything. When it was Romney v Obama I said "Yeah, they should not be allowed to run a gas station, one would give away the gas and the other would sell the pumps". And you know it is true. In the US (and actually the UK as well) public servants think they own public things and are selling them. In Arizona they sold the statehouse and now pay rent. There are turnpikes now owned by foreign corporations. That is a crime, it is actually called "conversion". A felony if you or I do it.

And the news ? Well a human interst story about some kid who has cancer or some shit gets the headline and is the top story, while they pick your pocket to pay their friends. Lobbyists.

And it used to be that one entity could only own one AM, FM and TV station in any given market. Now, one person can own it all, as long as he can afford it. They all speak in the same voice. The "pipsqueaks" have been crushed.

We used to have TV commercials by local businesses, but they have been outbid by big money, which by the way knows it is only buying the airwaves. Do you buy something because it was on TV ? Fuck no. They just want control so that when they fuck up and there is a big lawsuit it is played down so that they do not lose too much revenue. As such, it is way too expensive for small business to get any airtime. Plus I have found that the station wants to produce the ad and the cost is not trivial. Big money won.

Big money controls the news, that is why we have these problems. I say stop feeding them. The only things I buy new are food and beer. Seriously, everything else is used. In that way I do not support them. And it will stay that way until my demise.

T^T

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: How should fake News be Punished? - 4/7/2017 4:08:46 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
ORIGINAL: thompsonx



I hope Russia or China invades and takes over your country.

What countries have russia or china invaded and taken over?


Well, China took Tibet.

It is true that ghengas khan took tibet 800 years ago and that tibet has been a part of china ever since. I will grant you that for a brief period during the civil war that china did not exercise it's full soveriginity.

They also wield great power over a few other countries, as if they have puppet governments like we do. Korea, Singapore and so forth.


So you are unable to tell us of the countries that china has taken over.

The Soviets took over a good piece of eastern Europe but that is over now.


Are you speaking of the countries that made war against russia/ussr?


However, many have doubts about the election in Crimea,


The cia helps to overthrow the legally elected pro-russian government of ukraine and russia reacts???oh my.



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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: How should fake News be Punished? - 4/7/2017 5:48:59 AM   
christopher11342


Posts: 11
Joined: 3/27/2017
Status: offline 		Fake news should not be punished, anything of that sort violates freedom of speech and it is very clear Germany has none of that with their commie Merkel in office

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: How should fake News be Punished? - 4/7/2017 10:11:46 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		I can understand why you enjoy fake news, what with the sharp drop in jobs added , only 98,000
The health care bill has failed again,
You need to believe fake news

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: How should fake News be Punished? - 4/8/2017 1:56:46 AM   
blnymph


Posts: 1605
Joined: 11/13/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: christopher11342

Fake news should not be punished, anything of that sort violates freedom of speech and it is very clear Germany has none of that with their commie Merkel in office


You seem to think your stupidity is sufficient anyway

(in reply to christopher11342)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: How should fake News be Punished? - 4/9/2017 5:51:02 AM   
longwayhome


Posts: 1035
Joined: 1/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

I hope they rape your whole family. Know why ?


NO. And I don't care why. This is not free speech - this is incitement to the one of the worst forms of violence.

The sentiments stated here is just so repulsive, so offensive that it is impossible for me to think of any situation or cause that might justify or lend any respectability to them - they are indefensible. This is a perfect example of why hate speech shouldn't be tolerated in any civilised society.




You want to let them in your country, your home, whatever happens to you is your problem. I never used to lock my doors but I do now. Want to know the reason ?

Stay the fuck away from most people. I am very selective about who I let in the garage, let alone the house.

And BTW, the truth is not hate speech.

T^T


I have no problem with free speech as a principle.

I do however have a problem with public incitement to violence which is illegal in the UK and quite rightly so. Does stopping people from encouraging violence against others really constrain anyone's ability to act in a public or political sphere? Of course it doesn't unless you want to start a civil war, which by the way is illegal in every country.

If you use your right of free speech to say deeply aggressive and offensive things like "I hope they rape your whole family. Know why ?", you forfeit the right to have people listen to you or take you seriously.

Most of the people complaining about their free speech being curtailed in western democracies are really saying that they want to be able to say offensive things and have people listen to them. All these people who moan that you can't say anything about Muslims, sure say lots of offensive things about Muslims. You mean if no-one was stopping you, you would be even more offensive? Really? I doubt it. I don't see anyone holding back.

Wishing rape on someone's family is pathetic and disgusting. If no-one agrees to publish sentiments like that, and civil society shouts you down, that is not your right of free speech being curtailed.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: How should fake News be Punished? - 4/9/2017 7:09:48 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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ORIGINAL: longwayhome


I have no problem with free speech as a principle.

I do however have a problem with public incitement to violence which is illegal in the UK and quite rightly so. Does stopping people from encouraging violence against others really constrain anyone's ability to act in a public or political sphere? Of course it doesn't unless you want to start a civil war, which by the way is illegal in every country.

You are mistaken. Perhaps you should read the cuban constitution. It is pretty specific about the necessity of the populace(which the government has armed) to rise up in armed opposition whenever the government has strrayed from the principles that created that country.


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RE: How should fake News be Punished? - 4/9/2017 7:20:46 AM   
BoscoX


Posts: 11290
Joined: 12/10/2016
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: christopher11342

Fake news should not be punished, anything of that sort violates freedom of speech and it is very clear Germany has none of that with their commie Merkel in office


The Nazi bitch - she is in love with Islam, probably because the two ideologies are so similar to one another

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: How should fake News be Punished? - 4/9/2017 7:25:05 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: BoscoX


The Nazi bitch - she is in love with Islam, probably because the two ideologies are so similar to one another


It is true that islam, christianity and national socialism share the same intolerant dictatorial ideology.

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: How should fake News be Punished? - 4/10/2017 3:36:45 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: vincentML
Our free speech in the Bill of Rights prohibits the government from prosecuting what we say unless it is said under oath to a Federal Agent. So, if the government wishes to lie like fuk, yes it can. There is no guarantee against it except the ballot box. GW Bush gotta get them weapons of mass destruction outta Iraq. Was there ever a bigger lie than that? And the stupid bastards re-elected him. I couldn't imagine they could do worse but, but . . sput! then they voted for Trump! Holy shit! But the Constitution doesn't disqualify a presidential candidate for being a howling sociopathic liar.



Wasn't it eisenhower who said "we know nothing of a gary powers or an airplane called the u2"
Wasn't it kennedy who said he knew nothing about an invasion of cuba at the bay of pigs?
Wasn't it lbj who told us of the attack on an an amerikan ship in the gulf of tonkin?
Just as bush&co told us of yellow cake and weapons of mass deception. What should be done to such as these who produce "fake"?


They should be otk spanked in public.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 58
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