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Cal SB 562 - Universal Health Care - 4/27/2017 5:41:16 PM   
KenDckey


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Wonder how it is going to be paid for?

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201720180SB562

quote:

This bill, the Healthy California Act, would create the Healthy California program to provide comprehensive universal single-payer health care coverage and a health care cost control system for the benefit of all residents of the state. The bill, among other things, would provide that the program cover a wide range of medical benefits and other services and would incorporate the health care benefits and standards of other existing federal and state provisions, including, but not limited to, the state’s Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP), Medi-Cal, ancillary health care or social services covered by regional centers for persons with developmental disabilities, Knox-Keene, and the federal Medicare program. The bill would require the board to seek all necessary waivers, approval, approvals, and agreements to allow various existing federal health care payments to be paid to the Healthy California program, which would then assume responsibility for all benefits and services previously paid for with those funds.
This bill would also provide for the participation of health care providers in the program, require care coordination for members, provide for payment for health care services and care coordination, and specify program standards. The bill would state the intent of the Legislature to enact legislation that would develop a revenue plan, taking into consideration anticipated federal revenue available for the Healthy California program. The bill would create the Healthy California Trust Fund in the State Treasury, as a continuously appropriated fund, consisting of any federal and state moneys received for the purposes of the act. Because the bill would create a continuously appropriated fund, it would make an appropriation.
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RE: Cal SB 562 - Universal Health Care - 4/27/2017 5:59:15 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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kool!

now they need the countys to make trust funds and then the cities too so everyone can get a cut of that action!!

what does it not surprise me that that wacko land comes up with it first.

~Richard Fine


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"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

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Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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RE: Cal SB 562 - Universal Health Care - 4/27/2017 6:35:36 PM   
TheUltimate4Him


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What are they smoking out there? Aren't these the same folks who have the state of California near bankrupt. And the state who almost had a catastrophic event when the Orville dam was about to burst.

And isn't this bill expected to provide all the same healthcare benefits in this proposed bill to illegal aliens?

This state is run by socialist idiots.

I guess that's why the smart people are leaving the state.

I vote for them to secede.

(in reply to Real0ne)
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RE: Cal SB 562 - Universal Health Care - 4/27/2017 10:23:04 PM   
Tkman117


Posts: 1353
Joined: 5/21/2012
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FR

So you're upset about money being spent on healthcare, and yet I've seen nothing on here from you cons about frustrations regarding the billions of taxpayer money being wasted so Trump can go golfing every weekend halfway across the country. If you're equally upset at that, please say so and I'll shut the hell up. Otherwise the hypocrisy here is simply remarkable.

(in reply to TheUltimate4Him)
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RE: Cal SB 562 - Universal Health Care - 4/27/2017 10:47:32 PM   
Greta75


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I'm actually quite happy to see one state attempting some proper universal health care to see how it is possible.

You know, i believe in universal health care. Alot of people in US cannot imagine how they can afford it. But it is possible in other countries.

So one state just need to prove that it works for the rest to start being sold on the idea.

(in reply to Tkman117)
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RE: Cal SB 562 - Universal Health Care - 4/27/2017 10:58:37 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: TheUltimate4Him

What are they smoking out there? Aren't these the same folks who have the state of California near bankrupt. And the state who almost had a catastrophic event when the Orville dam was about to burst.

And isn't this bill expected to provide all the same healthcare benefits in this proposed bill to illegal aliens?

This state is run by socialist idiots.

I guess that's why the smart people are leaving the state.

I vote for them to secede.

California is the tenth largest economy in the world. Where does fla. stack up?

(in reply to TheUltimate4Him)
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RE: Cal SB 562 - Universal Health Care - 4/27/2017 11:13:17 PM   
Termyn8or


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Joined: 11/12/2005
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quote:

being wasted so Trump can go golfing every weekend halfway across the country


Liberal math. How many weeks have there even been ? There is no way it is billions. What's more those secret service agents are on salary and already hired. if YOU want to talk, talk about how much EXTRA these excursions cost. Are they hiring extra people ? If so, I have not heard about it.

If you want to bitch, bitch about something real. For example him wanting to stay in NYC or whatever, which I am not even sure he does. Even if he does, the secret service has planted themselves there and it is making the customers at the businesses that rent from him a bit nervous. Dd he order them to do that ?

And remember, nothing liberals can say will change most people's minds. They ran Hillary Clinton, remember. Many people who voted "for" Trump were actually voting against her. I will not change my mind unless he starts a war.

T^T

(in reply to Tkman117)
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RE: Cal SB 562 - Universal Health Care - 4/27/2017 11:14:34 PM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

Wonder how it is going to be paid for?



Probably by demanding/begging for federal aid endlessly so that they can "prove that it works".



Michael


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RE: Cal SB 562 - Universal Health Care - 4/27/2017 11:17:00 PM   
Termyn8or


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quote:

California is the tenth largest economy in the world. Where does fla. stack up?


California has more debt than Russia. How does that stack up per capita ?

T^T

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RE: Cal SB 562 - Universal Health Care - 4/27/2017 11:40:31 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

California is the tenth largest economy in the world. Where does fla. stack up?

California has more debt than Russia. How does that stack up per capita ?

Kinda like this

http://www.lao.ca.gov/LAOEconTax/Article/Detail/1


(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: Cal SB 562 - Universal Health Care - 4/28/2017 12:06:21 AM   
Greta75


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Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
Probably by demanding/begging for federal aid endlessly so that they can "prove that it works".
Michael


That would be cheating!
If they want to show Universal Healthcare can work, they need to figure out a self-sufficient way to finance this whole operation.

I mean, California is way bigger than Singapore. 37 Million versus 5 million. If we can have a Universal Healthcare - ish model with zero natural resources. They should be able to figure out how to balance their budgets to support this too.

Because when I really think about it. California is as good as a sole country on it's own! But end of the day, health care is important, if somebody can lead by example on how it can work and how it is affordable. Eventually maybe Obamacare can be replaced with something that actually works!

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
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RE: Cal SB 562 - Universal Health Care - 4/28/2017 1:14:05 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

Wonder how it is going to be paid for?

Well you know, when it comes to insurance, the more widely you spread the risk the fairer the premiums become for everyone, and if you take profit out of the equation then you get the lowest premium cost possible in the bargain, all of which would seem to make single payer pretty much a no-brainer.

But for it to actually work you have to balance the amount of money available, the fees that can be charged for the services provided, and the availability of medical personnel, each of which will have interaction effects on the other two. That would require a bureaucracy to administer, with all the associated additional costs, which will predictably expand until they consume any gains.

So while single payer does seem to be theoretically appealing, I just don't know how good an idea it would turn out to be in practice. But I'm happy to see a state try it. If they can find a way to make it work, great. Then maybe we can make it work for the nation. And if they can't, then maybe they'll be saving the rest of the country from making a mistake.

K.



< Message edited by Kirata -- 4/28/2017 1:44:41 AM >

(in reply to KenDckey)
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RE: Cal SB 562 - Universal Health Care - 4/28/2017 4:23:28 AM   
Musicmystery


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Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

That would require a bureaucracy to administer, with all the associated additional costs, which will predictably expand until they consume any gains.


Two points. And first, I don't know how it's going to work either, and will be curious to see as well.

1) Yes, it needs administration, but it's replacing various previous agencies.
2) That it will "predictably expand" to "consume any gains" is an assumption, just speculation. (yes, I know that will invite snark from the usual suspects).

(in reply to Kirata)
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RE: Cal SB 562 - Universal Health Care - 4/28/2017 4:27:09 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

quote:

being wasted so Trump can go golfing every weekend halfway across the country


Liberal math. How many weeks have there even been ? There is no way it is billions. What's more those secret service agents are on salary and already hired. if YOU want to talk, talk about how much EXTRA these excursions cost. Are they hiring extra people ? If so, I have not heard about it.

If you want to bitch, bitch about something real. For example him wanting to stay in NYC or whatever, which I am not even sure he does. Even if he does, the secret service has planted themselves there and it is making the customers at the businesses that rent from him a bit nervous. Dd he order them to do that ?

And remember, nothing liberals can say will change most people's minds. They ran Hillary Clinton, remember. Many people who voted "for" Trump were actually voting against her. I will not change my mind unless he starts a war.

T^T


Welll you might try this topic...from less than a month ago

http://www.collarchat.com/m_5016711/mpage_1/key_secret%252Cservice/tm.htm#5016912

Specially this post by me...(surprise)
http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=5016912
quote:


im sorry you havent seen the request for his SS extra funding.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4341062/Secret-Service-asked-funds-protect-Trump.html
http://www.businessinsider.com/secret-service-cost-trump-2017-3
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/325207-secret-service-requested-60m-budget-increase-to-protect-trump-family
https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2017-03-22/secret-service-requested-additional-60m-to-protect-trump-family
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=11&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiXqs3d7v_SAhVh2oMKHbgbA5U4ChAWCBkwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thefiscaltimes.com%2F2017%2F03%2F23%2FSecret-Service-Won-t-Get-60-Million-More-Protect-Trumps&usg=AFQjCNH8esGkCXyQVOfmBFe9VhRi742_Yg&sig2=ALeRvLuuRhxRhcW9yJanWg&bvm=bv.151325232,d.amc



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(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: Cal SB 562 - Universal Health Care - 4/28/2017 5:33:55 AM   
Kirata


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From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

That it will "predictably expand" to "consume any gains" is an assumption, just speculation.

An assumption, yes. Speculative, not so much.

K.


(in reply to Musicmystery)
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RE: Cal SB 562 - Universal Health Care - 4/28/2017 7:39:57 AM   
Musicmystery


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Joined: 3/14/2005
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I'll rephrase. It shares an attitude, not an absolute.

If we're going to object, I'd start with the simple reality that their plan for funding it is to come up with a plan.


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RE: Cal SB 562 - Universal Health Care - 4/28/2017 7:59:53 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

That would require a bureaucracy to administer, with all the associated additional costs, which will predictably expand until they consume any gains.


Two points. And first, I don't know how it's going to work either, and will be curious to see as well.

1) Yes, it needs administration, but it's replacing various previous agencies.
2) That it will "predictably expand" to "consume any gains" is an assumption, just speculation. (yes, I know that will invite snark from the usual suspects).



you heard it from yours truly when it was first suggested that it wont work because it cant work, not long term not under capitalism, especially american style capitalism, but that wont stop them from trying to pound square pegs into round holes while they bleed people dry and their pals expand da'mobcracy a little deeper up our asses.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Cal SB 562 - Universal Health Care - 4/28/2017 8:03:37 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

FR

So you're upset about money being spent on healthcare, and yet I've seen nothing on here from you cons about frustrations regarding the billions of taxpayer money being wasted so Trump can go golfing every weekend halfway across the country. If you're equally upset at that, please say so and I'll shut the hell up. Otherwise the hypocrisy here is simply remarkable.



not me, I am upset about the money we spend on our zionist criminal overlords. Do you thinik it costs more than the salary trump gave up, or are you looking for cheeze with your whine

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Tkman117)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Cal SB 562 - Universal Health Care - 4/28/2017 8:13:54 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

That would require a bureaucracy to administer, with all the associated additional costs, which will predictably expand until they consume any gains.


Two points. And first, I don't know how it's going to work either, and will be curious to see as well.

1) Yes, it needs administration, but it's replacing various previous agencies.
2) That it will "predictably expand" to "consume any gains" is an assumption, just speculation. (yes, I know that will invite snark from the usual suspects).


you heard it from yours truly when it was first suggested that it wont work because it cant work, not long term not under capitalism, especially american style capitalism, but that wont stop them from trying to pound square pegs into round holes while they bleed people dry and their pals expand da'mobcracy a little deeper up our asses.

It works in every other major western country.

Here, we pay more than any other country, but don't have universal health care. How's that working?

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Cal SB 562 - Universal Health Care - 4/28/2017 8:41:05 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
Wonder how it is going to be paid for?

Well you know, when it comes to insurance, the more widely you spread the risk the fairer the premiums become for everyone, and if you take profit out of the equation then you get the lowest premium cost possible in the bargain, all of which would seem to make single payer pretty much a no-brainer.
But for it to actually work you have to balance the amount of money available, the fees that can be charged for the services provided, and the availability of medical personnel, each of which will have interaction effects on the other two. That would require a bureaucracy to administer, with all the associated additional costs, which will predictably expand until they consume any gains.
So while single payer does seem to be theoretically appealing, I just don't know how good an idea it would turn out to be in practice. But I'm happy to see a state try it. If they can find a way to make it work, great. Then maybe we can make it work for the nation. And if they can't, then maybe they'll be saving the rest of the country from making a mistake.
K.


The wider you spread the risk, the less fair it can get. The wider you spread the risk, the greater the risk involved is, the more risk the pool encompasses. Those who are more likely to use the insurance most are adding the most risk to the pool, but aren't paying according to their risk profile. Those who are less likely to use the insurance a lot present the lowest amount of risk, but will be paying well above their risk profile. It's truly only fair for those who are likely going to use and average amount of insurance, because they will likely be paying about their risk profile.


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  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Kirata)
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