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Penn Jillette on Islam - 5/8/2017 8:15:29 PM   
DesideriScuri


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Islam/Chrsitianity/Judaism are ideas.

Muslims/Christians/Jews are people.

"You're allowed to hate ideas. ... You're not allowed to hate people for their ideas."

"The chances of a terrorist believing in Islam, are pretty good. The chances of someone who believes in Islam being a terrorist are very, very bad; very little chance of that."

Very interesting points that I completely agree with.

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RE: Penn Jillette on Islam - 5/8/2017 8:19:15 PM   
respectmen


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Most muslims may not be terrorists but many to most would condone islam taking over a country or the whole world.

Most muslims are dead silent about the terrorists and/or the ones that are trying to enforce sharia law.

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RE: Penn Jillette on Islam - 5/8/2017 8:31:43 PM   
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Right - they're not true Muslims, if they don't believe in the blood-soaked Koran and it's murderous demands and other fascist teachings. Just like, you're not much of a Christian if you don't believe in the biblical teachings about Jesus and other things

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RE: Penn Jillette on Islam - 5/8/2017 8:48:00 PM   
BoscoX


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A better comparison to Muslims and Islam would be Nazis and Naziism

Muslims are to Islam what Nazis were or are to Naziism

Perhaps not all Nazis were bad people, rightl

But they were Nazis nevertheless

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RE: Penn Jillette on Islam - 5/9/2017 1:41:28 AM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: respectmen

Most muslims are dead silent about the terrorists and/or the ones that are trying to enforce sharia law.

People with an anti-Muslim agenda (looking right at you RM, BoscoX) persist in making this and similar claims loudly, repeatedly and without any basis in fact.

Recently this claim was tested in the courts as part of a libel action brought by the Grand Mufti of Australia against Murdoch's News Corp, one of the prime drivers of Islamophobia in the media. So the claim was analysed forensically as part of the proceedings. The Guardian reports:
"Sydney’s Daily Telegraph newspaper published two stories highly critical of the response of the grand mufti, Dr Ibrahim Abu Mohamed, to the co-ordinated terrorist attacks that killed 130 people in November 2015.

One depicted him as three “unwise” monkeys, covering his ears, eyes and mouth, next to the words “Sees no problems, hears no concerns, speaks no English”. The second article was headlined: “Even Hamas condemn the Paris attacks so why won’t Australia’s Grand Mufti Ibrahim Abu Mohammed?”.

Mohamed, Australia’s most senior Sunni scholar, sued News Corp for defamation early last year, and verdicts were entered by agreement with News Corp in his favour in the NSW supreme court on Friday. The terms of the settlement were confidential. Mohamed had alleged the articles wrongly implied he had failed to condemn the terrorist attacks and shifted blame away from the perpetrators.

He had issued a statement days before the defamatory articles, which mourned the loss of innocent lives in Paris and expressed his deepest condolences to families and friends of the victims.
The statement canvassed “causative factors” of terrorism, including racism, Islamophobia, curtailing freedoms, foreign policies and military intervention.

Mohamed had earlier posted a Facebook statement about the Paris attacks and a bombing in Beirut, which said: “There are no words to truly describe the devastation of these acts but we will continue in solidarity and pray for peace.”

He had previously condemned all forms of terrorism, including on Facebook, in interviews with the ABC and in other formal statements.

His statement of claim alleged he had been brought into hatred, ridicule and contempt, and was gravely injured in his character and reputation.

News Corp had previously defended the claim, arguing that the imputations of the articles were substantially true. It also argued that some of the defamatory imputations were an expression of honest opinion."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/05/australias-grand-mufti-wins-defamation-case-over-news-corp-articles

News Corp were unable to substantiate their false claims, and admitted that their claims had no foundation in fact. They were forced to abandon their first line of defence - that the claims were "substantially true" - and accept that their claims were false. For a more detailed analysis of the statements and claims see here

So RM & BoscoX the claims you are advancing has been tested in a court and found to be false. I doubt if this will stop you peddling this falsehood in future but at least we both know that you have been exposed to the truth of the matter right here and now, and if you repeat this claim in the future we will both know that you are knowingly and deliberately peddling malicious lies.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 5/9/2017 1:51:08 AM >


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RE: Penn Jillette on Islam - 5/9/2017 2:16:47 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

"The chances of a terrorist believing in Islam, are pretty good. The chances of someone who believes in Islam being a terrorist are very, very bad; very little chance of that."


Completely meshes with experience, reason and common sense.

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RE: Penn Jillette on Islam - 5/9/2017 5:41:07 AM   
DaddySatyr


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If one does a simple Youtube search using: "Penn Jillette Leaving The Left", Mr. Jillette lays bear his reasons for being a Libertarian and it is a PERFECT (IMHO) explanation (Also, you might find the couple of videos that I found, while "falling down the Youtube hole" where Teller speaks!).



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< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 5/9/2017 6:15:53 AM >


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RE: Penn Jillette on Islam - 5/9/2017 8:10:18 AM   
MrRodgers


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Religion poisons everything.

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RE: Penn Jillette on Islam - 5/9/2017 9:15:01 AM   
tamaka


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

"The chances of a terrorist believing in Islam, are pretty good. The chances of someone who believes in Islam being a terrorist are very, very bad; very little chance of that."


Completely meshes with experience, reason and common sense.


Yet the ideology is there for them whenever they wish to partake.

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RE: Penn Jillette on Islam - 5/9/2017 10:00:19 AM   
BoscoX


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Religion poisons everything.


Islam is far more than just a religion, it is a bloodthirsty ideology

It is a cult, that kills those who refuse to join and kills those who try to leave

Religion itself begat science and writing and many other things which have greatly contributed to civilized life, even some good has come from Islam

Though the evils of that cult (which has murdered far more innocents than even Marxists have, and continues to do so) far outweigh any contributions it has made

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RE: Penn Jillette on Islam - 5/9/2017 10:55:31 AM   
angelikaJ


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...Because Christians have never murdered "innocents".


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RE: Penn Jillette on Islam - 5/9/2017 11:48:13 AM   
BoscoX


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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

...Because Christians have never murdered "innocents".



Join us in this current century please

Name a group that has not "murdered innocents" at some time? As if it makes it okay for Muslims to continue doing it today because at some time others have

Muslim teachings and the atrocities rendered by those who believe are the same today as medieval times

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RE: Penn Jillette on Islam - 5/9/2017 12:03:32 PM   
BoscoX


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And Muslims have destroyed every civilization in their path since the cult first began. Terrorism and slaughter is the basis of the Muslim cult whereas Jesus told his followers to turn the other cheek if attacked

Islam has murdered nearly 300 million people by some estimates, and enslaved many more as sex slaves and as male servants of which many were castrated. Butchered en masse in their colossal castratoriums

Which that behavior is a fundamental part of Islam

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RE: Penn Jillette on Islam - 5/9/2017 12:08:23 PM   
mnottertail


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So, the takeaway is there aint never been no Jeebus guys anywhere, then or now. Got it.

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RE: Penn Jillette on Islam - 5/9/2017 12:15:34 PM   
kdsub


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It seems to me that most everywhere in the world where there are Muslims there is violence in the name of Islam. Trying to excuse the followers of this religion by saying it is only a small percentage of the total population does not stop the killing.

There is a responsibility to be assumed by the peace loving followers of Mohammed to weed out the terrorists among them. As far as I can tell this is not happening as often as it should. If you only have a small number of terrorists among billions of peace loving Muslims then it should be a quick and simple process of pointing out terrorists to the authorities.

Until the murderous portion of Islam is ostracized from the religion then I think it is reasonable to hold the " FOLLOWERS" of the religion as a whole responsible. Terrorists could not survive without the support or apathy of their fellow Muslims.

Pointing out this failure to act is not condemning a religion but it is showing a lack of courage or conviction among it's followers.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 5/9/2017 12:21:27 PM >


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RE: Penn Jillette on Islam - 5/9/2017 12:25:19 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:


There is a responsibility to be assumed by the peace loving followers Mohammed to weed out the terrorists among them. As far as I can tell this is not happening as often as it should. If you only have a small number of terrorists among billions of peace loving Muslims then it should be a quick and simple process of pointing out terrorists to the authorities.


Why on earth would ordinary Muslims know anything about the terrorists among them? Do you think the average Islamic terrorist is going to be stupid enough to advertise the fact to his friends and neighbours? How is rooting out a terrorist going to be any easier than rooting out any other kind of would-be killer?



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RE: Penn Jillette on Islam - 5/9/2017 12:33:33 PM   
kdsub


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PeonForHer the family and friends and perhaps the neighbors do know... at least some. You cannot plan...gather arms...explosives...find fellows of like mind...without raising suspicion. A piece loving Muslim does not become a terrorist over night... it is a long indoctrination to become a killer. Are you going to tell me your friends and family would not see the change in you if you chose to become a terrorist?

Butch

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RE: Penn Jillette on Islam - 5/9/2017 12:38:06 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

"The chances of a terrorist believing in Islam, are pretty good. The chances of someone who believes in Islam being a terrorist are very, very bad; very little chance of that."


Completely meshes with experience, reason and common sense.


Yet the ideology is there for them whenever they wish to partake.



*Any* ideology is always there for whomever might want it and whenever it chimes with what a given group of people are into.

I don't get why so many people absolutely, unquestioningly, take it for granted that the ideology is the root cause of what people are. Why is that so 'self-evident'?

Is it not at least possible that a given group of people a) become, say, aggressive and warlike, *then* b) pick the religion (or aspects of a religion) that make their aggression look and feel 'real' and 'righteous' to them?


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RE: Penn Jillette on Islam - 5/9/2017 12:39:09 PM   
BoscoX


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

It seems to me that most everywhere in the world where there are Muslims there is violence in the name of Islam. Trying to excuse the followers of this religion by saying it is only a small percentage of the total population does not stop the killing.

There is a responsibility to be assumed by the peace loving followers of Mohammed to weed out the terrorists among them. As far as I can tell this is not happening as often as it should. If you only have a small number of terrorists among billions of peace loving Muslims then it should be a quick and simple process of pointing out terrorists to the authorities.

Until the murderous portion of Islam is ostracized from the religion then I think it is reasonable to hold the " FOLLOWERS" of the religion as a whole responsible. Terrorists could not survive without the support or apathy of their fellow Muslims.

Pointing out this failure to act is not condemning a religion but it is showing a lack of courage or conviction among it's followers.

Butch


The majority of Muslims live in lands where all non-Muslims have been long ago eliminated and so the only terrorism necessary to fulfill the cult directives is Muslim-on-Muslim terrorism, such as Sunni vs. Shiite violence, or stoning rape victims, or whipping or otherwise maiming (etc) those who fall short of the demands of fascist Islamic laws

In these lands and everywhere else terrorism is the law, it is required for Muslims to believe in it and support it

Otherwise they are apostates and not true Muslims

And those who speak out against terrorism are subject to becoming targets of terrorism, by law


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RE: Penn Jillette on Islam - 5/9/2017 12:54:58 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

PeonForHer the family and friends and perhaps the neighbors do know... at least some. You cannot plan...gather arms...explosives...find fellows of like mind...without raising suspicion. A piece loving Muslim does not become a terrorist over night... it is a long indoctrination to become a killer. Are you going to tell me your friends and family would not see the change in you if you chose to become a terrorist?

Butch


Butch, we here in the UK lived with various terrorist groups for decades. Christian terrorists - nominally, too: those of the Northern Irish protestants and catholics. If you were in one of those terrorist organisations you could not talk to *anyone* about it. You never knew who could be an informant, or who might get drunk in a pub and mention something to someone who was an informant. By far the easiest and cheapest way for the British military to find an IRA terrorist was to threaten punishments or to offer rewards to people living in the community.




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