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ORIGINAL: Kirata

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

The first three boldened words of my OP will give you access to the link.

Here it is again.

Mea culpa. I read right past that first link, the one you included as part of your text. Not as an excuse, but the difference in color doesn't display well on my screen. The first link that caught my eye was the one you set off between paragraphs. You have my apologies.

K.

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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No, it only has to do with race to bigots who see race in everything like you, and he wasn't discussing the other thread.

Why do you feel the need for name calling? You ask a civilized question, I give you a polite answer you don't like, therefore I am a racist?

[:'(]

No, you are a racist because no matter what the facts you ignore anything that doesn't make the black person the innocent victim, and you only believe those sources which pretend that race is all that matteres. In this case there is no indication that things would have been different in any way if the "victim" had been white, you just want it to be.

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37% of unarmed people killed by police were black in 2015 despite black people being only 13% of the U.S. population
Unarmed black people were killed at 5x the rate of unarmed whites in 2015 SOURCE

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So far this year, 24 unarmed black men have been shot and killed by police - one every nine days, according to a Washington Post database of fatal police shootings. During a single two-week period in April, three unarmed black men were shot and killed. All three shootings were either captured on video or, in one case, broadcast live on local TV.

Those 24 cases constitute a surprisingly small fraction of the 585 people shot and killed by police through Friday evening, according to The Post database. Most of those killed were white or Hispanic, and the vast majority of victims of all races were armed.

However, black men accounted for 40 percent of the 60 unarmed deaths, even though they make up just 6 percent of the U.S. population. The Post's analysis shows that black men were seven times more likely than white men to die by police gunfire while unarmed. SOURCE

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4% The percentage of American law enforcement agencies that report any police-involved shootings to the FBI’s database — 700 out of a total of 17,000, according to USA Today. These agencies only record so-called “justifiable homicides,” or incidents in which an armed suspect was shot by police. All in all, we’re left with a reporting system that tells us very little about how many people are killed by police, and nothing about those killed in an unjust fashion. SOURCE

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These statistics are from different years. They represent an ongoing American tragedy. We maintain a colony of people within white America who are afraid to talk to a policeman for fear of being killed.

I did not invent these facts. They are not new to our history. And they are not the complete reported story.

Why don't you educate yourself to the reality instead of foolishly calling me names? I understand policing is hard and dangerous work and they can be proud they signed up for it, but we seem to have an epidemic of "lynching by cop" in America that no other industrial country has.

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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And you managed not to notice that his attitude changed when the other cops showed up which totally altered the situation.

Could have been the kid was frightened by the hostile approach of the two additional cops? Did he turn inward and run, thus getting shot in the back of the head?

We don't know about attitudes at this point because the talking was drowned by the sound of gunfire.

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The crimes committed by blacks is nearly double the crimes committed by whites you have to take that in to account when tring to make points like this. More criminals = more confrontations = more mistakes. Do you, like many, consider someone driving a car at the cops to be unarmed?

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We don't know what he was thinking. We do know that the cops saw that he started waving the gun around, and with what they had to work with he had become a major threat, you don't get to pretend he was an inncent unarmed child just trying toget away, he was there to creat a situationwhere the cops would kill him.

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

cops create situations all the time where they should be killed.

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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The crimes committed by blacks is nearly double the crimes committed by whites you have to take that in to account when tring to make points like this. More criminals = more confrontations = more mistakes. Do you, like many, consider someone driving a car at the cops to be unarmed?

Cops are supposed to be trained to minimize mistakes. There already was an officer on the scene. Did he signal for help? He says he had it under control.

How about a car moving away from the cop, the cop aims his rifle, and kills a kid in the front passenger seat? Is that a mistake or murder?

SOURCE


Yes, part of the problem is we have colonies of blacks in poor neighborhoods. The Justice Department has a program to train police for improving Community Policing. Mr. Trump is going to gut finances for that program. Is that a solution?

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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We don't know what he was thinking. We do know that the cops saw that he started waving the gun around, and with what they had to work with he had become a major threat, you don't get to pretend he was an inncent unarmed child just trying toget away, he was there to creat a situationwhere the cops would kill him.

You know that and you haven't been trained as a cop. Why did the late arriving cops not know that?

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
The bit that you chose to edit out is Mader's statement that the situation was under control and that there was "no imminent threat". This statement changes the entire tone of the confrontation from one of potentially lethal confrontation to something considerably more benign, a situation that, in Mader's assessment, posed no immediate threat to anyone. The bit that you chose to edit out to suit your take on events changes the picture dramatically and calls into question whether there was an imminent threat to anyone when the police started shooting. At the very least, it negates the rationalisation you advanced for the cops using deadly force.

"At this point he starts to wave his gun at me and the other officers."

"He never pointed it at me"

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"Officer arrives on scene, initial officer is a young officer. He encountered the individual, attempted to get him to put the weapon down. As he's speaking to him, two others officers arrive. These are more seasoned officers. They arrive, they begin approaching, they hear the other officer tell him 'put it down, put it down' and as they approach he turns with the firearm and points it toward them. They reacted in a defensive manner and unfortunately he died," [Hancock County Prosecutor Jim] Davis said.

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As for why he was fired, Mr. Mader said it seems obvious to him why that was done.

“Firing me for it, it’s less of an eyebrow-raiser then to say the other officers are justified in what they did — which I think they were.”
...
Mr. Mader is white and Mr. Williams was black. But Mr. Mader said the other two officers — who are also white — did the right thing given their situation.

“They did not have the information I did,” he said. “They don’t know anything I heard. All they know is [Mr. Williams] is waving a gun at them. It’s a shame it happened the way it did, but, I don’t think they did anything wrong.”

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The letter also said an independent autopsy showed that Williams was shot in the back of the head. Davis refuted that, saying Williams was shot behind the ear. Davis also said there was no dashboard or body camera footage, about which the family had inquired.

"The facts are what they are," Davis said. "It's unfortunate that this had to occur."

Davis said Williams' blood alcohol content was twice the legal driving limit when he left a club May 6. He went to see a woman with whom he previously had a relationship, brought out a gun and threatened to kill himself in front of her and their child, Davis said.
...
The woman called 911, Davis said, ending outside the woman's home with three officers telling Williams to put the gun down. One of the Weirton police officers, a nine-year veteran of the force, shot Williams after he began pointing the gun at the officers, Davis said.

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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ORIGINAL: InfoMan

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

Was the killing justified? Or, was Mader handling the situation properly?

Why does this have to be a binary 'either/or'?

Never said it had to be. Parse it if you wish.

Let me point out that the victim was shot in the back of the head. I think that is relevant. Perhaps you don't.

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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We don't know what he was thinking. We do know that the cops saw that he started waving the gun around, and with what they had to work with he had become a major threat, you don't get to pretend he was an inncent unarmed child just trying toget away, he was there to creat a situationwhere the cops would kill him.

You know that and you haven't been trained as a cop. Why did the late arriving cops not know that?

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ORIGINAL: InfoMan

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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ORIGINAL: InfoMan

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

Was the killing justified? Or, was Mader handling the situation properly?

Why does this have to be a binary 'either/or'?

Never said it had to be. Parse it if you wish.

Let me point out that the victim was shot in the back of the head. I think that is relevant. Perhaps you don't.

Okay, i looked into it.

The killing was justified, and while Mader was correct in his assessment of the individual - he didn't handle the situation properly.

If Mader was certain that he wasn't going to be shot, then he should of intercepted the individual through a physical tackle or any non-lethal option at his disposal. Instead, he simply allowed the situation to escalate. And even if the shooter had no intention of killing any one, if he discharged his firearm as a measure to entice the police to kill him - that round (even if shot into the air) could potentially hit an innocent bystander, making him a risk to the officers on the scene or any one near by. As a police officer it is his duty to safeguard the community from risk, and Marder didn't.

While it is objectionable that the police policy is basically 'shoot first, ask questions later'; you do have to realize that the police have to think beyond just simply that situation and their own lives... And if this individual was being a risk to innocent bystanders as well - then the police may have to act in objectionable ways.


And the location of the wound is irrelevant.
It is the action you are doing when you receive that wound that matters.

Was he running away? was he on his knees? or was he waving a gun around and posturing himself as if he was going to fire?

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

Thanks for the input, DS.

I have to agree that prosecutor Davis's comments support the killing as justified. They do change my point of view.

And, I agree with you that there is insufficient information to say whether Mader's firing was justified. A judge or jury may have to make that decision.

That was interesting. G'nite all. [:)]