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RE: When sub 'dismisses' Domme - 7/28/2006 11:19:30 AM   
SweetDommes


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Given the tone that I get from the words he used, I'm afraid I would have stopped communication with the boy as well.  Interupting me mid-sentence to say something that, to me, reads like a total blow off is a deal breaker.  Either take the .3 extra seconds to say "I'm sorry, but I gotta go, I'll call later" (if it's not truly a blowoff) or we're done. 

I already mentioned that we obviously only have one side of the story - but in my place, as I don't drink so would never call anyone while drunk, and unless the boy says something that pisses me off I'm not likely to get argumentative or beligerent (and if he did say something that pisses me off, I'd either hand the phone over to Holly or I'd end the conversation with "sorry, but don't think it will work, bye"), a boy who would do that is done for.

Online communication is difficult - and misunderstandings happen due to the lack of tone of voice and body language ... but over the phone, you're only down one (body language).  We are far more likely to forgive an error of manners over IM or e-mail than one over the phone.  My opinion is that if you wouldn't it done to you, then you shouldn't do it to others (Golden Rule anyone?).  Because I strive not to interrupt others, I expect others to give me the same consideration, or at least have a damn good reason for it (and I'd better hear that reason relatively quickly). 

(in reply to thetammyjo)
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RE: When sub 'dismisses' Domme - 7/28/2006 12:15:02 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


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quote:

While on the phone last night with a potential sub, suddenly, in mid sentence, he interrupted Me and said: "well, I'd better let you go, it's getting late"...
Adressing this point alone, I will say that if a man cuts me off in conversation like this, I'm left feeling uneasy, and if it is at the beginning of our getting to know you phase, I would probably not be dialing his number again...  I would remain open to having him call so that I could watch his future behavior.

Cutting a conversation on the phone abruptly even once is rude and I agree that it indicates either a lack of interest on his part, or a lack of manners/desire to please.  I don't have an issue with anyone ending a conversation if/when he needs for whatever reason, but I would expect a more gracious exit, rather than "it's late, I'm out."     M

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RE: When sub 'dismisses' Domme - 7/28/2006 12:31:18 PM   
vmyeyes


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as speaking for a newbie sub here.... its hard to know what the protocal really is,,, shoot i know my self i dont follow much of it just because i dont know it.. if your used to saying to others hey i got run.. and not so used to having to ask may i go then tell you why.. its a mind set that sometimes is really hard... i know with me since my trainer was and still is my friend , its hard cuz the things i used to be able to say or do was ok. Now its so not!!! and trying to put your self in sub mode in just a few weeks is a bit hard. i can give so many examples that things i used to do i am learning i can no long stuff that i just dont even think of ,, like having another person rub my shoulders while at work with my trainer sitting there. no mind you i have worked at the diner for a year an so for a year this person every day rubed my shoulders an we would flirt back and forth all the time... it was only fun cuz i am a lesbian and this person is a guy.. even with my cooks i flirt with them cuz it gets me what i want like my food first or how i want my food.. see being a waitress you learn to use sex to your advantge to eirther get your food or flirt with customers to get better tips me knowing that sex sells it works on top of being a very good waitress... so learning how to compleatly put your self in sub mode 24/7 can be a bit hard ... i give my trainer alot of respect for putting up with my down faults for the reason of Just Not Knowing..!! i would ask that you give this sub another chance.... thank you i just wanted to give a point view....

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RE: When sub 'dismisses' Domme - 7/28/2006 1:00:35 PM   
DoraExplorer


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Why does this need to be about "he didn't say 'sorry, it's not working out'"?  Can't it just be a tiredness issue?
 
Sure, rude for cutting someone off mid-sentence, and ok if he's tired it's not a sign of weakness and he shouldn't push his excuse onto someone else, but personally I find it odd when I'm just chatting to someone, and they ask for permission to do stuff....



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RE: When sub 'dismisses' Domme - 7/28/2006 7:02:25 PM   
TexasMaam


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SweetDommes, I think you rock!

I haven't logged in for a few days so I was really sort of tickled by all the responses.

Ahem.  Drunk? What in any way shape or fashion implied that I was drunk?  I rarely drink, and then usually in good company, with dinner, a glass of wine, perhaps two at the most.  No.  I was most assuredly not drunk.  I gave up getting drunk at about age 19.

To clarify, if it matters to anyone, while the boy in question was not My submissive, certainly not My slave, he was asking for the opportunity to get to know Me in hopes of becoming My sub...specifically, for the 24/7 kind of one on one relationship that I hope to one day find.  We got past the initial ability to write and communicate with a stumble or two, but we both pressed onward, he kept writing sensibly and I kept reading and thinking.  Remember, our first conversation was delightful!

However, One of My major 'pet peeves' when talking to a sub at any time is being cut off, or cut short.  It happens to be something I look for, test for, in initial compatibility contacts.  A well trained submissive, even though he's not My submissive, will almost always show enough respect, regard, and even perception enough  to know when to either allow the Domme to end the conversation or, alternatively, ask permission to be excused to continue the conversation at a later time.  An untrained submissive will usually have spent enough time learning a few manners and behavioral tips online, at the very least.

I would never expect a man at work, for example,  to "beg My permission to leave, please Ma'am", whether he's My sub or not, but I damn sure better hear him say something to the effect of: "I'm so glad you called/thank you for calling/it was so good to hear your voice"....pick one...followed by: " I really have a report that's due in about 15 minutes/I'm due in a meeting in a short while and need to get ready/I have a few proximity issues(a neat euphemism for 'can't talk now' that anyone vanilla could understand if they overheard)/I'd like to try to talk again later if that's o.k."...pick one....something polite and gracious by way of excusing himself from My presence.  I expect nothing less from a vanilla male contact, why would I accept less from a sub?

As for those who feel I might have overreacted, read further:

At the outset of the conversation I had already clarified whether he was able to talk, was alone, etc. 

He was watching a comedy and was breaking out in raucous laughter throughout the short conversation.  Now, if it was My DVD player, and I was truly serious about getting to know a Domme whom I'd been pleading to phone me for the past three weeks or more, I believe if I really really REALLY wanted to 'become a sub' or 'get to know a Domme' I'd have muted the DVD and made a major effort to further the great conversation that had taken place earlier that evening. 

Why, I mute the TV when My neighbor calls, just to be polite.  How important can TV possibly be??? *AHA! You've discovered another of My 'pet peeves'!

Since he was obviously otherwise 'focused', I deliberately tested, or pushed, ever so gently, to see whether he was paying any attention to the conversation.  He responded succinctly (a surprise, since I was suspecting it was he who had perhaps enjoyed a few brewskies, given the raucous laughter), so I continued the conversation for a few sentences longer, listening to the TV blare in the background. 

Then, in the next sentence, he interrupted Me.  I mentioned that he'd wanted to talk, and had asked that I call, (rather tongue in cheek because I could already tell which way this was going), and he interrupted Me again, continuing his previous train of thought.  When I fell silent, for a moment, he checked to see if I was still there.  I responded that I was, indeed, still on the line, and I was just about to ask that he mute his TV (to give him one more chance, because any fellow with a submissive heart would certainly have had a light bulb go off in his head and responded!) and THAT's when he suddenly interrupted the third time and said he had to go.

You folks can argue and postulate and theorize all you want to, but in My book that's a sure sign he's not capable of being My sub!

He might be someone else's sub, but if he's not capable of being My sub, why waste both our time?

It is worth noting that I have been pretty open here at CM about the fact that I've been spoiled by an exemplary sub who is going to be very difficult to replace.  bobbi, boy, you're gonna be a tough act to follow. *sigh*

Now, please excuse Me because I'm here on page 2 of the thread and I want to read each and every intriguiging, provacative, challenging, rude, comical, objective, enlightening post, no matter what they say!

Thanks to all who responded! Even you, Tress, you witchy old thing.

TexasMaam

< Message edited by TexasMaam -- 7/28/2006 7:32:36 PM >


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RE: When sub 'dismisses' Domme - 7/28/2006 7:05:50 PM   
TexasMaam


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BRAVO!
A SUBMISSIVE HEART!

Well done, SenseofBelonging!  Kudos to you and the lucky Domme who snaps or has snapped you up!

Now, THAT's what I'm talkin' about! (quote below...)

TM

quote:

ORIGINAL: SenseofBelonging

the very first lesson i learned from an online Domme (im now owned r/l) was to request permission to leave Her. that simple bit of advice helped to mold my attitude toward Dom/mes ever since, extending much farther than simply asking permission to end a chat or conversation to an entire mind-set when dealing with Dom/mes. i am a submissive, heart, mind and soul and treat all Dom/mes with respect (i know i am a reflection of my Mistress's training) until such time as They show they are undeserving of my respect...and even then i respectfully bid them farewell. but maybe that's just me.


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RE: When sub 'dismisses' Domme - 7/28/2006 7:07:11 PM   
TexasMaam


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Bingo! We really need to 'do' lunch!  ; )

TM

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig

quote:

While on the phone last night with a potential sub, suddenly, in mid sentence, he interrupted Me and said: "well, I'd better let you go, it's getting late"...
Adressing this point alone, I will say that if a man cuts me off in conversation like this, I'm left feeling uneasy, and if it is at the beginning of our getting to know you phase, I would probably not be dialing his number again...  I would remain open to having him call so that I could watch his future behavior.

Cutting a conversation on the phone abruptly even once is rude and I agree that it indicates either a lack of interest on his part, or a lack of manners/desire to please.  I don't have an issue with anyone ending a conversation if/when he needs for whatever reason, but I would expect a more gracious exit, rather than "it's late, I'm out."     M


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RE: When sub 'dismisses' Domme - 7/28/2006 7:17:05 PM   
TexasMaam


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vymyeyes, since he has not emailed Me since the little episode occurred, I'm guessing the feeling was mutual.  ; )

Anyway:

"Next!"

TM

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RE: When sub 'dismisses' Domme - 7/28/2006 7:20:18 PM   
mp072004


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Interrupting is bad manners, I agree. However, I don't see why a submissive shouldn't end a conversation even without a pressing reason. A gentleman or lady may certainly finish discussing the topic, indicate that the conversation has been nice (if it has been) and he intends to move along. This is not asking for permission, or expressing desire and leaving the decision up to you. That would not be unacceptable, and it is a more submissive behavior, but it is not the only polite option.

Monica

(in reply to TexasMaam)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: When sub 'dismisses' Domme - 7/28/2006 7:20:35 PM   
TexasMaam


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Tress, t'aint brag, just fact, I'm not ashamed to post anything I've a mind to.

God bless ya, go have a good night! Truly!

TM

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RE: When sub 'dismisses' Domme - 7/28/2006 7:41:29 PM   
TexasMaam


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cloudboy,

I never post with the intention of 'offering guidance' to any Domme. Opinion is as opinion does, please read My quote about My opinion that can be found beneath My signature!

The only subs that I'd like to follow any suggestions I make are those who might be interested in establishing a rapport with Me.

Ergo, I shall post what I wish!

As for whose 'loss' it was, it was probably not a loss at all.

Be well,

TM

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


I can't say its clear whose loss it is.

Is it wise to toss the potential love of your life away because he failed to follow "protocol?"

Does failure to follow protocol definitively out someone as a poor submissive?

You do offer sensible guidance ---- to the subs --- but to Domme's I'm not so sure. (Should they follow your example?)

Is it better to follow rules or one's instinct?

Interesting post. It makes me think.


< Message edited by TexasMaam -- 7/28/2006 7:42:25 PM >


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RE: When sub 'dismisses' Domme - 7/28/2006 9:19:57 PM   
fullofgrace


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*shrugs* maybe i'm just weird or things are different in Mf than Fm, but i've never had issues with being the one to close the conversation. usually He is the one to do that, but that's just because it tends to happen naturally that way. this is something that i wouldn't think is particularly common knowledge to the whole world, so maybe it would be a good idea to make it clear to people when you first start talking to them that you expect to be the one to end the conversation.

also, i don't find "it's getting late, i should probably let you go" to be an offensive close to a conversation, unless it's said in an offensive or exasperated tone or something. i mean, i don't know how many times i've said that exact thing to people and i've never hear someone call it a blow-off before. i guess it could be, and based on the rest of the conversation maybe that's how you can draw that conclusion, but on the whole i think it's kind of unfair to expect someone who hasn't served you particularly before to know your exact rules for closing a conversation. just my opinion.

eta: just wanted to put in that "bdsm protocol" can mean a hell of a lot of different things to a hell of a lot of different people. submissives and slaves are not mind-readers, contrary to popular belief.


< Message edited by fullofgrace -- 7/28/2006 9:21:19 PM >


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RE: When sub 'dismisses' Domme - 7/28/2006 10:01:21 PM   
SweetDommes


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For the record, the 'drunk' comment was in response to someone saying that a Domme had called him while drunk and tried to pick fights.  In such an instance, being polite would no longer be required, and it would be ok for someone to cut off whomever they were talking to and leave the conversation.

And I've already stated how I feel about the whole interrupting thing, so I won't go into it again, but fullofgrace, please note that it was NOT just that the potential submissive ended the conversation, it was HOW he ended it.

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RE: When sub 'dismisses' Domme - 7/29/2006 5:24:42 AM   
LadyJulieAnn


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Had the other details of the call been known, I think the reponses might have been different.  If someone was watching TV, interrupting the call with laughter, and was distracted constantly, my test would have been "Call back when you can pay attention."

Be well,
Julie

(in reply to SweetDommes)
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RE: When sub 'dismisses' Domme - 7/29/2006 7:53:46 AM   
thetammyjo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyJulieAnn

Had the other details of the call been known, I think the reponses might have been different. If someone was watching TV, interrupting the call with laughter, and was distracted constantly, my test would have been "Call back when you can pay attention."

Be well,
Julie


I agree.

The issue wasn't being interrupted and it wasn't how a submissive should behave on the telephone, it is really about asking someone to call you and then not having the courtesy to pay attend to them.

I still do not see this as a sub or dom or BDSM issue at all.

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TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

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RE: When sub 'dismisses' Domme - 7/29/2006 5:10:22 PM   
TexasMaam


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It is both: Not only is it an issue of basic social skills, good manners or interpersonal conversational protocol, it is that much more important when it takes place in the context of a D/s interaction.

Since I'm not here at CM searching for a vanilla companion, any protocol issues that arise between a potential sub and Myself are by their very nature D/s related. 

If I were at the Symphony, for example, then later found Myself interrupted at an after concert gathering by some vanilla person whose acquaintance I had just made, it would be a manners/social skills issue.

However, this was not a social setting.  It was not a 'get-acquainted-online-vanilla-im-buddy-lets-talk-and-maybe-get-acquainted-phone-call', either!

It was a D/s conversation that specifically took place, at his repeated requests, to determine whether or not either party could be considered as a potential D/s partner.

A sub who wants to be taken seriously as any potential partner of Mine really should never make such a blatant gaff.  It becomes an obvious disregard for D/s protocol because of the very nature of the reason for the conversation in the first place. 

Key words:  D/s conversation; potential sub

And while I'm on the subject of protocol: I think it's just plain sad how D/s has evolved into an 'in your face' slam of good old fashioned protocol.  Protocol is extremely important to Me.  Call Me old school if you want to: A sub who doesn't care about protocol simply isn't ever going to please Me. 

I don't have to define Protocol: we're not talking about international diplomacy to settle worldwide conflicts for crying out loud!  We're talking basic "genteel manners and strict  attention to protocol" in the context of BDSM activities and relationships....if a boy can't understand that, because that's pretty self explanatory, then by golly don’t waste My time.

You have Your preferences and expectations, I have Mine.  One of these days I'll find a well mannered sub who is focused upon pleasing Me in all things and who will have the good grace to excuse himself politely from My presence whether on the phone or in person...I know they're out there.  It's merely a matter of time!

Be well,

TexasMaam

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RE: When sub 'dismisses' Domme - 7/29/2006 7:39:48 PM   
thetammyjo


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I think if your idea of protocol is beyond basic civility then you do indeed need to define what protocol is to you. And you should do that at the beginning of your discussion with a potential.

To expect him to know is really really really going to seriously limit your pool of potentials. I'd actually recommend at that point you might be better off expanding your search to a forum that has the same definition of protocols as you do. That way anyone who contacts you on that forum should know the same protocols.

Clearly you can see from the boards here that there is no such universal protocol definition here at CM.

I'm very sorry, TexasMaam, that this man was rude to you.

We clearly have very different opinions about when Ds begins.

For me it is when during a test scene or after a contract is signed. Until that point, he or she is my equal and they own me only what I have clearly laid out as the hoops they need to jump to show themselves a good match for me.

I never forget for one moment that I, too, am auditioning for a relationship with them. Regardless of how much of a rare commodity I may be in this world, I am, by far, not the only potential dominant in the world.

This is just me and my approach to this intregral part of my life.

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Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

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RE: When sub 'dismisses' Domme - 7/29/2006 8:38:33 PM   
TexasMaam


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I do not mind limiting My pool of potentials.  The more stringent the selection criteria, the smaller the pool of fish.

Responses on these boards are no indication whatsoever of the interpretation of protocol by those who do not post here on the boards.

I have friends and colleagues who share My views.  I have an exemplary sub who understands the protocol that I expect and who makes tremendous effort to follow same.  I have no need to 'expand My search to a forum' that shares My exact views on protocol.

I'm not looking for acceptance from you or from any other member here at CM.

I'm looking for another sub, and shall continue to do so.  

I am not looking for an untrained clueless newbie.

I am looking for a mature, experienced sub who understands rudimentary D/s protocol without My having to hand him a nifty little list of do's and dont's along with a plethora of definitions.

My profile and website are quite clear and self explanatory and I receive more communications from hopefuls than I can respond to.  Many of those hopefuls find Me via reading the boards here at CM.  I post My preferences here certain in the knowledge that some of them are reading and paying attention.

I'll stay right here, thank you very much.  Get over it.

TexasMaam

< Message edited by TexasMaam -- 7/29/2006 8:50:06 PM >


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RE: When sub 'dismisses' Domme - 7/29/2006 8:44:41 PM   
littlesarbonn


Posts: 1710
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From: Stockton, California
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Okay, so let me see if I got this straight: Hanging up abruptly because a rerun of Star Trek is coming on isn't a good excuse?

Even if it's one of the good ones?

I have so got to learn this protocol thing. I tried to go to a website about it, but I kept getting a site about underage lesbians that want to give me their myspace information (which surprisingly has the FBI.gov as a return address). The Internets is difficult!

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RE: When sub 'dismisses' Domme - 7/29/2006 8:49:07 PM   
TexasMaam


Posts: 1467
Joined: 6/22/2005
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and I offended you in what way?

TM

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