RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH

RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH (Full Version)

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BamaD -> RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH (5/21/2017 6:23:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: InfoMan quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD You are wrong on one count. If the person has not started shooting, untill that happens the police have no right to feel threatened. No police were dead or seriously injured so they had no right to fire. Now if he had been white that would have been a different story. Actually there was a case just recently in which a police officer was fired for not using deadly force against an individual who was brandishing a firearm in a threatening matter - pointing it at police. Other officers that arrived on scene ended up shooting the suspect, but later it was discovered that the firearm was not even loaded. The State maintained that because the individual displayed intent to use a deadly weapon that the homicide was justified - regardless if the weapon was not in a functional state where it could be lethal. The idea is some what based on the principle of melee weapons such as knives - You don't wait until after he has stabbed you before you are allowed to use lethal force... like wise, with guns - you don't have to wait until after you're being shot at... It is the intent that is important. And Vincent thought the police should have waited. That first cop on the scene was fired because he froze, to be honest this was his third offence and I think he should have been fired before the incident but Vincent insisted that the rest of the cops should have followed his lead. This is why I say that in his mind no dead cops no reason to shoot.

vincentML -> RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH (5/21/2017 6:27:42 PM)
quote: Stop making a fool of your self you silly old man. We get it, you love to suck up to black people. Maybe you seek a black mistress. What you are doing is pathetic. The photograph says it all. Crutcher did the best he could under stoned conditions to obey the police. Look at the photo, look at the last seconds of a man's life. He was a threat to no one. Shame on you guys if you see a threat there. [image][img]http://i.imgur.com/c1X14LG.jpg[/img][/image]

vincentML -> RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH (5/21/2017 6:41:10 PM)
quote: This is why I say that in his mind no dead cops no reason to shoot. Absolutely disgusting ad hoc accusation. Why are you in denial about the plight of the world's people of color? On every continent throughout history people of color have been brutalized. It continues today in our own land of Liberty. We are not necessarily the worst offenders but it is a slap in the face to our grand aspirations of Liberty and Justice for all. People of color do not get justice in America. How can you accept that? quote: I am concerned that you only care when something bad happens to a black person, and then nothing makes it right. At the same time bad things that happen to non blacks is of no importance. Now, you pathetic lying piece of shit, show me where I ever said that things happening to non blacks is of no importance.

vincentML -> RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH (5/21/2017 6:44:35 PM)
quote: Stop making a fool of your self you silly old man. We get it, you love to suck up to black people. Maybe you seek a black mistress. What you are doing is pathetic. How do you know I am not in fact married to a black woman? Dumb shit.

Edwird -> RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH (5/21/2017 6:47:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka I don't think that a police officer can ask to see your grocery bags. This very thing happened in real life. You're right in saying that no police officer has the right to inspect my grocery bags, but he asked, and I tried to be cooperative. After 20 minutes of street interrogation, I finally got annoyed and told them to shove off. By your estimation of things, I would rightfully have been shot dead for that. Or by Kirata's account, been at least one third shot dead in any case. Not that I had any kids myself, but I'm failing to see where any of this accounted to to benefit of my nephews or nieces, whom I helped raise in any case, in my own house.

tamaka -> RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH (5/21/2017 6:48:44 PM)
vincent... the way you present everything about the 'plight' of blacks and the idea that you feel white people need to be their champion seems mord belittling to blacks to me than anything. Black people are quite capable of championing their own cause and dealing with their issues. They don't need your type of 'help'.

Kirata -> RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH (5/21/2017 6:49:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwird You suggest that I take my meds, while someone like you is holding the gun. Will you promise to take them if she puts the gun down? [:D] K.

tamaka -> RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH (5/21/2017 6:55:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwird quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka I don't think that a police officer can ask to see your grocery bags. This very thing happened in real life. You're right in saying that no police officer has the right to inspect my grocery bags, but he asked, and I tried to be cooperative. After 20 minutes of street interrogation, I finally got annoyed and told them to shove off. By your estimation of things, I would rightfully have been shot dead. Or by Kirata's account, been at least one third shot dead in any case. Not that I had any kids myself, but I'm failing to see where any of this accounted to to benefit of my nephews or nieces, whom I helped raise in any case, in my own house. Something along those lines happened to me too. You just gotta deal with it and if you've done nothing wrong you've got nothing to worry about. We all are subject to having to deal with some inconvenience in life in order to maintain a safe and just civilization.

BamaD -> RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH (5/21/2017 7:20:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: This is why I say that in his mind no dead cops no reason to shoot. Absolutely disgusting ad hoc accusation. Why are you in denial about the plight of the world's people of color? On every continent throughout history people of color have been brutalized. It continues today in our own land of Liberty. We are not necessarily the worst offenders but it is a slap in the face to our grand aspirations of Liberty and Justice for all. People of color do not get justice in America. How can you accept that? quote: I am concerned that you only care when something bad happens to a black person, and then nothing makes it right. At the same time bad things that happen to non blacks is of no importance. Now, you pathetic lying piece of shit, show me where I ever said that things happening to non blacks is of no importance. I ask you why two dead white people are less important than one dead black and what i get is a rant about how blacks are treated. You defended the cop who froze and shouldn't even have still been on the force because the other cops should have taken his lead and waited till the guy stated shooting to do something. Every time I put some form of that question to you, you refuse to answer it and rant about blacks treatment. You ignore that white people were the first to outlaw slavery and that it still exists in...Africa. You "prove" that I was wrong about a 20 year old black girl wouldn't be shot with a case where...they didn't shoot the black girl. You pretend that I don't see the difference between being drunk which, while it can make you more hostile it makes you less dangerous and PCP which makes you unstable and dangerous with out a weapon. True you have never used the words white lives don't matter but every time it comes up you start in about how important it is to focus on black lives and how mentioning that others cout two distracts from the "real" problem. You want the police to put themselves in extreme danger with black people. Finally you keep repeating that black deaths are a result of bias because it doesn't reflect the population while ignoreing that it is disproportionate the other way when compared to the crimes committed. Try acting like someone else is as important as black people and I won't thing that you think that black people are more important. Pigs in a blanket is followed by a man driving a couple hundred miles to murder two cops and you pretend it is just happensabce. I ask you if ambushing and murdering cops counts as self defence and get another rant about how throughout history blaks have been mistreated. How come you never admitt that most of the abuse of black people is at the hans of other blacks. You are too dumb or too biased to see that cleanig up black neighborhoods is the best way to cut down on black deaths at the hands of the police. Stop telling black kids that no matter what they do the cops are going to kill them, this attitude brings up the black deaths more that anything other than the number of black criminals.

BamaD -> RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH (5/21/2017 7:41:11 PM)
FR Your paranoia doesn't make it true. When he got there a despute broke out which ended with a 16 year old being shot. 20-25 witnesses swore that the kid panicked tried to run away and the cop shot him in the back. The NAACP demanded that he be tried fir murder and that the Chief (who was black) be fired . Bits of information started coming out. First the kids body was in the front yard, now I don't know how big the yards in the projects are where where you live but here if he was running he would't stiil be in the yard. Next in spite of all the witnesses he was not shot in the back, he was shot in the front from below. This fit the officers version. Then it turned out he was shot with the officers backup revolver just like he said. The NAACP ranted about blacks being abused and cops covering up for beach other. Then the dashboard cameras film was released. It showed the kid shove him, grab his service weapon and try to shot him. Foutunatly there wasn't a round in the chamber. While he was trying to ram a round into the chamber the officer pulled his backup and shot him. Now to any reasonable person this would convince them. However the NAACP(which was filling BLM's place then) still held their demonstration, still demanded the firing and still wanted the officer tried. Why, because the only thing they would believe was the first story that came out. they still claimed that the kid was shot running away. And the paranoids like you blekived and still belive that story.

Edwird -> RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH (5/21/2017 7:58:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: Edwird You suggest that I take my meds, while someone like you is holding the gun. Will you promise to take them if she puts the gun down? [:D] Was that a smiley face, just there? I'm all about putting the drugs and guns down on the table, if others do the same and come to the discussion after that. Not that I'm counting on it. "Fair trade" just isn't on the agenda, here, I can see. No matter. But then . . . 'Watch What Happens" ~Me and tamaka,swaying our hineys around the tape machine, . . . ~ That song was actually new words set to music of a song from the film Les Parapluies de Cherbourg (The Umbrellas Of Cherbourg.) But we can all keep a secret, right? Even when I sniffled at the train departure scene, with Geneviève (Catherine Deneuve) yelling out to the departing Guy, "Je t'aime!, je t'aime! (grabs another hankie, give me a moment, here . . . ) When are you going to learn how to have fun, any of you? Is it just 'The Protestant Way' to be completely pissed off all the time and be completely scared shitless ALL the time? It's not me who needs the meds here, folks. Go see a stupid movie and laugh or cry or something.

InfoMan -> RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH (5/21/2017 8:51:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: Stop making a fool of your self you silly old man. We get it, you love to suck up to black people. Maybe you seek a black mistress. What you are doing is pathetic. The photograph says it all. Crutcher did the best he could under stoned conditions to obey the police. Look at the photo, look at the last seconds of a man's life. He was a threat to no one. Shame on you guys if you see a threat there. [img]http://i.imgur.com/c1X14LG.jpg[/img] and here is a photograph 3 seconds AFTER that still image at a higher resolution [image]https://bearingarms.com/uploads/2016/09/crutcher-helo-4.jpg[/image] notice how his hands are no longer up, and are instead on the door handle? and another one 3 seconds After the one above [image]https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/6539b77d49f95e0d61b51cf3ae6eba73f1726331/c=52-0-971-691&r=x404&c=534x401/local/-/media/2016/09/19/USATODAY/USATODAY/636099230146187781-Tulsa-Police-via-ap.JPG[/image] he is now leaning onto the door with both hands on the vehicle. ~this is 6 seconds before he was shot. (suspect was shot at 19:44:54) so much for the 'hands up' and 'not trying to enter the car' narrative you've been shilling.

BamaD -> RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH (5/21/2017 8:57:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: InfoMan quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: Stop making a fool of your self you silly old man. We get it, you love to suck up to black people. Maybe you seek a black mistress. What you are doing is pathetic. The photograph says it all. Crutcher did the best he could under stoned conditions to obey the police. Look at the photo, look at the last seconds of a man's life. He was a threat to no one. Shame on you guys if you see a threat there. [img]http://i.imgur.com/c1X14LG.jpg[/img] and here is a photograph 3 seconds AFTER that still image at a higher resolution [image]https://bearingarms.com/uploads/2016/09/crutcher-helo-4.jpg[/image] notice how his hands are no longer up, and are instead on the door handle? and another one 3 seconds After the one above [image]https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/6539b77d49f95e0d61b51cf3ae6eba73f1726331/c=52-0-971-691&r=x404&c=534x401/local/-/media/2016/09/19/USATODAY/USATODAY/636099230146187781-Tulsa-Police-via-ap.JPG[/image] he is now leaning onto the door with both hands on the vehicle. ~this is 6 seconds before he was shot. (suspect was shot at 19:44:54) so much for the 'hands up' and 'not trying to enter the car' narrative you've been shilling. As always the most incriminating info (for the police) is what is released. Many people, like Vincent, make up their minds over that first info and see everything that challenges that as spin. Like the case I told about in Selma.

Edwird -> RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH (5/21/2017 9:20:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: Edwird quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka I don't think that a police officer can ask to see your grocery bags. This very thing happened in real life. You're right in saying that no police officer has the right to inspect my grocery bags, but he asked, and I tried to be cooperative. After 20 minutes of street interrogation, I finally got annoyed and told them to shove off. By your estimation of things, I would rightfully have been shot dead. Or by Kirata's account, been at least one third shot dead in any case. Not that I had any kids myself, but I'm failing to see where any of this accounted to to benefit of my nephews or nieces, whom I helped raise in any case, in my own house. Something along those lines happened to me too. You just gotta deal with it and if you've done nothing wrong you've got nothing to worry about. We all are subject to having to deal with some inconvenience in life in order to maintain a safe and just civilization. Halting people on the street while going about their normal business is not everyone's idea of 'a safe and just civilization,' nor actually any notion of civilization at all. I understand that 1930s Russia and 1930s Germany speak directly to your heart and wishes, but those of us paying attention have decided better. Modern Russia or some South American or Asian dictatorship is where you want to be.

tamaka -> RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH (5/21/2017 9:27:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwird quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: Edwird quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka I don't think that a police officer can ask to see your grocery bags. This very thing happened in real life. You're right in saying that no police officer has the right to inspect my grocery bags, but he asked, and I tried to be cooperative. After 20 minutes of street interrogation, I finally got annoyed and told them to shove off. By your estimation of things, I would rightfully have been shot dead. Or by Kirata's account, been at least one third shot dead in any case. Not that I had any kids myself, but I'm failing to see where any of this accounted to to benefit of my nephews or nieces, whom I helped raise in any case, in my own house. Something along those lines happened to me too. You just gotta deal with it and if you've done nothing wrong you've got nothing to worry about. We all are subject to having to deal with some inconvenience in life in order to maintain a safe and just civilization. Halting people on the street while going about their normal business is not everyone's idea of 'a safe and just civilization,' nor actually any notion of civilization at all. I understand that 1930s Russia and 1930s Germany speak directly to your heart and wishes, but those of us paying attention have decided better. Modern Russia or some South American or Asian dictatorship is where you want to be. So why was the police officer interrogating you on the street with your 2 grocery bags? There is more to the story than that, which you probably don't want to share.

BamaD -> RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH (5/21/2017 9:41:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: InfoMan quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: Stop making a fool of your self you silly old man. We get it, you love to suck up to black people. Maybe you seek a black mistress. What you are doing is pathetic. The photograph says it all. Crutcher did the best he could under stoned conditions to obey the police. Look at the photo, look at the last seconds of a man's life. He was a threat to no one. Shame on you guys if you see a threat there. [img]http://i.imgur.com/c1X14LG.jpg[/img] and here is a photograph 3 seconds AFTER that still image at a higher resolution [image]https://bearingarms.com/uploads/2016/09/crutcher-helo-4.jpg[/image] notice how his hands are no longer up, and are instead on the door handle? and another one 3 seconds After the one above [image]https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/6539b77d49f95e0d61b51cf3ae6eba73f1726331/c=52-0-971-691&r=x404&c=534x401/local/-/media/2016/09/19/USATODAY/USATODAY/636099230146187781-Tulsa-Police-via-ap.JPG[/image] he is now leaning onto the door with both hands on the vehicle. ~this is 6 seconds before he was shot. (suspect was shot at 19:44:54) so much for the 'hands up' and 'not trying to enter the car' narrative you've been shilling. And this tells everything you need to know.

BamaD -> RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH (5/21/2017 9:43:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: Edwird quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: Edwird quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka I don't think that a police officer can ask to see your grocery bags. This very thing happened in real life. You're right in saying that no police officer has the right to inspect my grocery bags, but he asked, and I tried to be cooperative. After 20 minutes of street interrogation, I finally got annoyed and told them to shove off. By your estimation of things, I would rightfully have been shot dead. Or by Kirata's account, been at least one third shot dead in any case. Not that I had any kids myself, but I'm failing to see where any of this accounted to to benefit of my nephews or nieces, whom I helped raise in any case, in my own house. Something along those lines happened to me too. You just gotta deal with it and if you've done nothing wrong you've got nothing to worry about. We all are subject to having to deal with some inconvenience in life in order to maintain a safe and just civilization. Halting people on the street while going about their normal business is not everyone's idea of 'a safe and just civilization,' nor actually any notion of civilization at all. I understand that 1930s Russia and 1930s Germany speak directly to your heart and wishes, but those of us paying attention have decided better. Modern Russia or some South American or Asian dictatorship is where you want to be. So why was the police officer interrogating you on the street with your 2 grocery bags? There is more to the story than that, which you probably don't want to share. Of course there is.

Edwird -> RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH (5/22/2017 1:44:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: Edwird quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: Edwird quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka I don't think that a police officer can ask to see your grocery bags. This very thing happened in real life. You're right in saying that no police officer has the right to inspect my grocery bags, but he asked, and I tried to be cooperative. After 20 minutes of street interrogation, I finally got annoyed and told them to shove off. By your estimation of things, I would rightfully have been shot dead. Or by Kirata's account, been at least one third shot dead in any case. Not that I had any kids myself, but I'm failing to see where any of this accounted to to benefit of my nephews or nieces, whom I helped raise in any case, in my own house. Something along those lines happened to me too. You just gotta deal with it and if you've done nothing wrong you've got nothing to worry about. We all are subject to having to deal with some inconvenience in life in order to maintain a safe and just civilization. Halting people on the street while going about their normal business is not everyone's idea of 'a safe and just civilization,' nor actually any notion of civilization at all. I understand that 1930s Russia and 1930s Germany speak directly to your heart and wishes, but those of us paying attention have decided better. Modern Russia or some South American or Asian dictatorship is where you want to be. So why was the police officer interrogating you on the street with your 2 grocery bags? There is more to the story than that, which you probably don't want to share. You can go first, of you like. quote: Something along those lines happened to me too. That's all? What are you trying to hide from us? Okay, I'll go first, then. "I've showed you my ID, you've asked where I live, even though the address is on the ID and I already said so five minutes ago. I've told you where I work. You've already looked in the grocery bags and I showed you the receipt with time stamp, which says I just came from there. Why do you keep asking me all these questions?" "Well, there have been a lot of break-ins around here lately." "There are always break-ins of businesses in this neighborhood, so what makes me suspicious in particular?" After 5 more minutes of dancing around my question, the older cop who was asking all the stupid questions said; "We were told to fill out "a card" on people we saw on the street." "Was there anything about my walking with two bags of groceries which indicated suspicious behavior?" "No, but we were told to fill out a card on everybody." "Obviously not everybody, or else you'd be harassing all the moms in the parking lot of the Harris Teeter (grocery store)." The younger officer kept looking away like he was embarrassed. Me- "That's really stupid. Are you saying that you're assigned to harass pedestrians with this crap? I'm done with you. I answered your stupid questions because I tried to be cooperative, but you keep on asking more stupid questions. I'm leaving now." (yes, I said it just like that.) So the next day I called the police (not 911) and told them what happened and they connected me to some sergeant who then confirmed what the officer told me, that all the patrol police were tasked with stopping every pedestrian and filling out 'a card' on them. Me- "You're not serious, you guys are actually doing that? You're actually under orders to harass every pedestrian like that? You're saying that I'm suspicious just for walking down the street with groceries?" "No sir, we're not saying that at all." "So, what, then?" After a solid thirty minutes of evading my pointed and direct questions (see? they don't like being on the other side of it, do they? And they lie worse than any criminal all the time), the sergeant finally admitted that it was all -in case- I committed a crime sometime in the future. He denied that's what they were doing in response to my first questions, but then he finally admits it was exactly that. "We just wasted 30 minutes because you lied about what you were doing to begin with, so just now you finally admit the truth." (Yes, I said it just like that.) I cut off his stammering and asked "What about that young officer? he acted like he was uncomfortable about all this." "Oh, he was a trainee, but he quit this morning, actually because of that (my street harassment)." So now you see how this works, then. The conscientious, those who actually care about the community and the citizens, are eliminated, while those who gladly comply with their unconstitutional orders stay on the job for years, while may tax dollars pay the salary and pension for these stupid American Nazi fucks. So yes, that's all there was to it, "suspicion of future crime" by way of being a pedestrian, instead of driving an SUV or a mommy van of whatever sort. Words out of the lying sergeant's mouth on the phone, after the tortuous affair of cornering his stupid bitch ass into finally telling the truth. So I left it with this; "That's too bad about the young officer quitting. The police need more guys like that, instead of lairs like you (yes, I said exactly that). "Uhm, I'm sorry, sir, but . . . " "Bye." I hung up. Whatever your own (or the fuckwit Bama's) stupid mind might think, your nor anyone else's children are 'safer' by way of harassing white or black or Latino pedestrian men or women walking to their house with groceries, under 'suspicion of possible future crime' because of the profiling parameters of "walking with groceries."

vincentML -> RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH (5/22/2017 12:28:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka vincent... the way you present everything about the 'plight' of blacks and the idea that you feel white people need to be their champion seems mord belittling to blacks to me than anything. Black people are quite capable of championing their own cause and dealing with their issues. They don't need your type of 'help'. tamaka. . . I never said white people should champion blacks. My point is that people of color have historically been exploited by white people. That exploitation continues today not only in the USA but in other parts of the industrialized world as well. I don't know how much history you read but anyone with a modicum of historical savvy is aware of the bitter truth. If you have any curiosity at all about the issue of historical exploitation and brutalization of blacks let me suggest you read a little. There was for example a genocide of between 4 and 8 million black natives in the Congo between 1890 and 1910. Between 1891 and 1906, the companies were allowed to do whatever they wished with almost no judicial interference, the result being that forced labour and violent coercion were used to collect the rubber cheaply and maximise profit. A native paramilitary army, the Force Publique, was also created to enforce the labour policies. Individual workers who refused to participate in rubber collection could be killed and entire villages razed. Individual white administrators were also free to indulge their own sadism. Despite these atrocities, the main cause of the population decline was disease. A number of pandemics, notably African sleeping sickness, smallpox, swine influenza and amoebic dysentery, ravaged indigenous populations. In 1901 alone it was estimated that half-a-million Congolese had died from sleeping sickness. Disease, famine and violence combined to reduce the birth-rate while excess deaths rose. The severing of workers' hands achieved particular international notoriety. These were sometimes cut off by rogue Force Publique soldiers who were made to account for every shot they fired by bringing back the hands of their victims. These details were recorded by Christian missionaries working in the Congo and caused public outrage when they were made known to the public in the United Kingdom, Belgium, the United States and elsewhere. ARTICLE Disease is most deadly among populations of people who are over-worked and under-fed. Why do I care about the outrages of history and the dismissal of current outrages by people on this forum? Simply, a man or woman should not live their lives without some passion greater than the mundane events they encounter everyday. I am grateful for this forum that induces me to exercise my passion for humanity, despite the occasional pit of personal attacks we succumb to. Yeah, I read books about a lot of topics, especially in history and science, but having these conversations is so much better than just reading about things, and frankly I am too old to travel in the world anymore like I used to. I know that black people do not need my help. I would not be so bold to assume I am a savior or that I have any importance, and I know there are limitations on this forum as a venue for airing important issues. It is not about my helping anyone; it is about my desire to live a life engaged in humanitarian issues. I hope you feel the same.

vincentML -> RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH (5/22/2017 12:56:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: InfoMan quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: Stop making a fool of your self you silly old man. We get it, you love to suck up to black people. Maybe you seek a black mistress. What you are doing is pathetic. The photograph says it all. Crutcher did the best he could under stoned conditions to obey the police. Look at the photo, look at the last seconds of a man's life. He was a threat to no one. Shame on you guys if you see a threat there. [img]http://i.imgur.com/c1X14LG.jpg[/img] and here is a photograph 3 seconds AFTER that still image at a higher resolution [image]https://bearingarms.com/uploads/2016/09/crutcher-helo-4.jpg[/image] notice how his hands are no longer up, and are instead on the door handle? and another one 3 seconds After the one above [image]https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/6539b77d49f95e0d61b51cf3ae6eba73f1726331/c=52-0-971-691&r=x404&c=534x401/local/-/media/2016/09/19/USATODAY/USATODAY/636099230146187781-Tulsa-Police-via-ap.JPG[/image] he is now leaning onto the door with both hands on the vehicle. ~this is 6 seconds before he was shot. (suspect was shot at 19:44:54) so much for the 'hands up' and 'not trying to enter the car' narrative you've been shilling. Three problems with your analysis. 1. There is no time stamp on my pic. 2. While your pic has a time stamp it is questionable that it follows mine because the cops are no closer to Crutcher's car. Maybe a step or two further back. 3. The helicopter is abreast of Crutcher's car in my pic but is at the rear behind the officers in your pic. Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that your pic preceded mine where the cops have moved closer in mine and the copter has swung to the left of the car. The point is Crutcher was killed needlessly.

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