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Saadia -> RE: The criticism of Trump Ramadan Message (5/29/2017 3:18:29 AM)
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Don't compare this to terrorist Christians bombing abortion clinic, because at least Jesus never personally lead by his personal actions to go bomb abortion places. So we know those Christians aren't doing what Jesus want them to do.
But Muhammad precisely attacked or conquered places who offended him that he felt justified in those attacks.
Do you not see that your role model has lead by example to start wars? Instead of make peace?
BTW, I do expect Christians to apologise for those abortion psychos who bomb abortion clinics and many Christians have. To me, whenever a Christian member commits atrocities, I get Christians apologising for the bad behaviour of their fellow Christians who are not being the best representative of Christianity. But never from a Muslim.
It would be easier to discuss if you provide evidence and we can talk about each case at a time. Yes, there were some offensive battles fought and led by the Prophet in order to spread Islam. If you look at most of the world's dominant civilizations throughout history, they have led offensive battles to spread their values across the globe. However, in all of these battles led by Muhammad clear instructions were given not to harm civilians, women, children, and live plants. I know this may be difficult for you to believe. Moreover, most of the battles Muhammad fought during his lifetime were defensive battles. During his time when he claimed prophethood, him and his associates were violently attacked and driven out of mecca (the home city). Years later when he conquered mecca back, instead of punishing them, he forgave all.
But the bottom line is, if you're not Muslim, you don't have to like Muhammad, or think well of him. The question should be, can Muslims live peacefully today with non-Muslims, and I am not sure if you actually read my previous answer, but I provided some evidence that they can. And your issue seems to be with Sharia, which you are totally ignorant of. If you want to discuss sharia, maybe you should actually research it from some varying sources to learn what it is.
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It's beyond Saudi! It's every Muslim country in the world that punishes apostates and blocks freedom of religion. And just to be very crystal clear on what this means. Every single Islamic country in this world, punishes a Muslim fellow for leaving Islam. It is against their law.
So for you guys to be against ALL the Muslim countries of the world, who is just practicing Islam.
May I ask you why are you bothering to follow Islam at all? Why follow a war lord? What so admirable about a someone who starts war and conquers other Nations?
And just for context, I am an atheist. I have problems with Christianity too, especially their "spare the rod, spoil the child" teachings. But crazy Fundie Christians just keeps telling me I am the devil and I am going to hell in after life. Generally they don't really feel they are permitted to take action in this world, but leave punishment up to their God in after life.
Crazy Fundie Muslims actually justify their war like Muhammad justifies his war. And take actual violent actions to resolve the issue exactly like what Muhammad did. Because Muhammad melted out punishment personally himself in his actual life, took things into his own hands. He doesn't believe in waiting for after life for Allah to punish that person. And that's what Muslim Terrorists is doing right now too. That's how they are following Muhammad example by taking things into their own hands.
And my last question would be, do you approve of Sharia law? If you approve of it, that makes sense as a Muslim, if you like the religion you are in, you should like the laws too.
But if you don't approve of it, and don't like the idea of living in it, why again are you supporting a religion with rules and regulations you don't like or agree with? I mean if Muhammad himself was the President of America now, would you genuinely absolutely love to live under his rules and regulations? I can't even begin to imagine what that means for American women.
Your main issue is you seem to misunderstand what sharia actually is. First, it's not called Sharia law. Sharia means law in arabic. So you're saying 'law law' which doesn't make any sense. Lot of these 'sharia' in Islamic countries are actually NOT based on Islam at all; that is why you have majority of Muslims disagreeing with laws practiced in ALL the 'Islamic' countries. Lot of these laws/sharias are placed by authoritarian regimes who seek to keep their people in control, thereby ensuring they hold on to their power and not allow democracy. When Western nations help these autocrats, they are perpetually helping them maintain these oppressive regimes.
Sharia is a broad term under Islamic jurisprudence. Sharia can entail anything from how you pray, fast, etc. to laws governing a state and so on (as discussed earlier). Most of these laws are man made, and can change from time to time based on modern condition (a process known as ijtihad) A lot also depends on how one interprets Quranic texts, and there is a huge difference of opinion on that. And only very minority of sharia comes from Quranic texts; most is simply agreed upon laws based on conditions.
So, one example of sharia that the Saudi and other 'Muslim' regimes that practice it and most modern Muslims disagree with is the cutting off of hands if someone steals, for example. The Saudis interpret it more literally. They take the text as is, and don't look into the context, just the way some radical Christians may interpret some verses of the bible literally. The context of sharia of cutting off hands, for example, is that it must only be carried out if the State can ensure every single citizen of the State is free from poverty (virtually impossible), has stolen something of great significant (over certain amount of value), and repeat offenders...these laws were merely mentioned as a form of deterrence, and were never actually meant to to literally apply, hence the great restrictions placed on them. But that is the extreme form of sharia, which I believe is your main issue with Islam and sharia. Most of the sharia deals with basic stuff of rituals etc. Oh, and the issue of apostasy, yes the Saudi regimes and most so called Muslim States practice them as well, which is not agreed upon by most current scholars. You should actually really the book from the link I provided. It's an actual research of Muslimcs conducted over five years and will answer most of your questions. The bottom line is you don't have to like any religion, including Islam. The real question should be, can Muslims live peacefully in democratic nations? And can Muslims and non-Muslims join hands together to fight extremists element within Islam? Fortunately, the latter is happening.
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