RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? (Full Version)

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vincentML -> RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? (5/29/2017 3:01:28 PM)


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ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

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ORIGINAL: tamaka


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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Starving the poor to pay of the debt is despicable, Cutting SSDI and medicaid to pay off the debt is despicable, the fact that the money saved by slashing food stamps, SSDI< CHIP, Meals on wheels and other community programs is only going to the 1% is barbaric, dangerous and ugly.
I get you dont understand, but then you have never been there.



Honestly i don't see how they can cut SSDI because it is an insurance policy people paid for. The only people who can collect SSDI are people who worked many years and paid into the insurance plan and paid taxes all of those years. The people who collect SSDI are not on medicaid, they are on medicare.


I fear you are wrong on this, m'dear. It is not an insurance policy at all. It is an accounting entry in the debit side of our national ledger. The successive governments have "borrowed" the money and left behind a barrel of piss stained IOUs. SSDI is part of our national debt.

That's their problem and the taxpayers problem. Not those who are legally collecting on the insurance policy they paid into.


Oy! The insurance policy is fiction. There simply is no insurance policy.




vincentML -> RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? (5/29/2017 3:04:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub22

Preaching to the choir - I have a daughter who sees black monster blobs that tell her to kill herself. She has been told by her psychiatrist that she will always see and hear things. So, basically, she is never going to be able to work full time. If there weren't the programs in place, she would be on the street, or living with me. As an alternative, a safe building providing food and shelter wouldn't be the most awful thing out there. As it is, she gets by on disability and SNAP - barely, as long as her father and I do things like pay her car insurance, and buy her a new old car, and throw in a few bucks every month.
She is basically unemployable, inspite of being very intelligent.

There are worse things than being housed and fed. But as I said, there will always be those who won't or can't take the help. And those are the ones that need to be fed. Unless we are willing to lock up the crazy ones, the ones who won't live in the way that society says they should, then we need to assist the poor.

My heart goes out to you and your family . . . seriously. :0(




tamaka -> RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? (5/29/2017 3:17:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Starving the poor to pay of the debt is despicable, Cutting SSDI and medicaid to pay off the debt is despicable, the fact that the money saved by slashing food stamps, SSDI< CHIP, Meals on wheels and other community programs is only going to the 1% is barbaric, dangerous and ugly.
I get you dont understand, but then you have never been there.



Honestly i don't see how they can cut SSDI because it is an insurance policy people paid for. The only people who can collect SSDI are people who worked many years and paid into the insurance plan and paid taxes all of those years. The people who collect SSDI are not on medicaid, they are on medicare.


I fear you are wrong on this, m'dear. It is not an insurance policy at all. It is an accounting entry in the debit side of our national ledger. The successive governments have "borrowed" the money and left behind a barrel of piss stained IOUs. SSDI is part of our national debt.

That's their problem and the taxpayers problem. Not those who are legally collecting on the insurance policy they paid into.


Oy! The insurance policy is fiction. There simply is no insurance policy.


Lol... it is a social contract that was made. I have every confidence if it went to the Supreme Court they would rule in that manner.




tamaka -> RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? (5/29/2017 3:19:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub22

Preaching to the choir - I have a daughter who sees black monster blobs that tell her to kill herself. She has been told by her psychiatrist that she will always see and hear things. So, basically, she is never going to be able to work full time. If there weren't the programs in place, she would be on the street, or living with me. As an alternative, a safe building providing food and shelter wouldn't be the most awful thing out there. As it is, she gets by on disability and SNAP - barely, as long as her father and I do things like pay her car insurance, and buy her a new old car, and throw in a few bucks every month.
She is basically unemployable, inspite of being very intelligent.

There are worse things than being housed and fed. But as I said, there will always be those who won't or can't take the help. And those are the ones that need to be fed. Unless we are willing to lock up the crazy ones, the ones who won't live in the way that society says they should, then we need to assist the poor.

My heart goes out to you and your family . . . seriously. :0(


That really sucks. Hopefully they will find a way to cure that sort of thing.




mnottertail -> RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? (5/29/2017 4:13:07 PM)

in the halcyon days of yore, the question was asked, "Am I my brothers keeper?" Question is still with us, and nothing has been cured yet.




kiwisub22 -> RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? (5/29/2017 4:35:59 PM)

Ideally, we are our brothers keeper. But there are always exceptions - as in everything else in life.
Seems like even Jesus said the poor would always be with us - or maybe it was just in "Jesus Christ, Superstar".




bounty44 -> RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? (5/29/2017 5:52:00 PM)

matthew 26:11




Edwird -> RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? (5/29/2017 5:57:10 PM)

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ORIGINAL: vincentML
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So is every American entitled to eat and is food stamps something that ought to be that ultimate guarantor?”


No, sorry. Get a job.


Here's reality:

Most poor people in the US are at least semi-literate.

Every homeless person in/near my neighborhood is literate to level of understanding what's said in the NY Times. Some of the downtrodden that my library allows in the doors if they stay quiet might be another matter, I'm not sure.

But I can assure you they are all aware of the $3-7 trillion venture to save the bankers from their own folly. And all the houses stolen from their sister or mother or uncle, none of them getting the same coddling as the bankers who stole their house in the firsts place.

So after knowing all that; if being offered a job to physically work their ass off paying $8 an hour ($16,640/yr.), they're supposed to jump at the chance, right?

To get to the socioeconomics of the matter;

Wiki:

quote:

According to an analysis that excludes pensions and social security, the richest 1% of the American population in 2007 owned 34.6% of the country's total wealth, and the next 19% owned 50.5%. Thus, the top 20% of Americans owned 85% of the country's wealth and the bottom 80% of the population owned 15%. Financial inequality was greater than inequality in total wealth, with the top 1% of the population owning 42.7%, the next 19% of Americans owning 50.3%, and the bottom 80% owning 7%.[12] However, according to the federal reserve, "For most households, pensions and Social Security are the most important sources of income during retirement, and the promised benefit stream constitutes a sizable fraction of household wealth" and "including pensions and Social Security in net worth makes the distribution more even".[13] When including household wealth from pensions and social security, the richest 1% of the American population in 1992 owned 16% of the country's total wealth, as opposed to 32% when excluding pensions and social security.

After the Great Recession which started in 2007, the share of total wealth owned by the top 1% of the population grew from 34.6% to 37.1%, and that owned by the top 20% of Americans grew from 85% to 87.7%. The Great Recession also caused a drop of 36.1% in median household wealth but a drop of only 11.1% for the top 1%.[11][12]

It's no matter to me how much money other people make, I think I've made myself clear on that.

But when the top two quintiles and the lowest two quntiles (20%, both cases) keep spreading further apart, and the discrepancy between productivity (the actual value of labor) and wages keep spreading apart as they have been since the late 70s onwards, . . .

It's not too difficult for a bright mind to see that there might be a whole lot of people who intrinsically get the gist of the whole affair and just say

FUCK THAT!

"Come at me again when you know what you're doing!"

I would gladly put my taxes towards subsidizing business to pay a young guy or gal $12-16/hour if that meant cut-off of billions in subsidies we now pay for agro-chem and defense contractors and oil companies and their fucking wars, and terrorist aftermath.

Otherwise, the rest of you clueless are welcome to STFU about whoever is getting food stamps when the whole US economy is seemingly based upon how many billions of tax dollars we can shovel into the corporate trough, and how quickly.




Edwird -> RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? (5/29/2017 6:34:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Is every American is entitled to eat?


To answer the OP . . .

No one in the world is 'entitled' to anything.

I could go on with some lengthy list of this or that, but the long and the short of it can be explained as something like this;

"No one is entitled to his $26 million bonus as reward for participation in fraudulent stealing of billions in home equity and millions in theft of homes outright."

But the US government said that he was in fact so entitled. This done by way of the US tax payers covering the very wrong bets of AIG, Lehman Bros., Bear Stearns, CitiGroup, etc.

Of course Bear Stearns and Lehman and Merrill Lynch crumbled, but the government 'made whole' the phenomenal losses by way of treasury- backed guarantees or sometimes just swiping it off the books to make BofA or Chase or Whales Foregone (the immensely anachronistically named Wells Fargo) banks take the deal.




mnottertail -> RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? (5/29/2017 6:37:01 PM)

One of the largest transfers of wealth in history, not the largest. But enough to skin the American citizens.




Edwird -> RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? (5/29/2017 6:56:53 PM)

People just don't even understand that.

Best single book on the subject of the massive fraud, if only reading one book on it;

Chain of Blame

Available at many local libraries.




vincentML -> RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? (5/29/2017 7:14:52 PM)



ORIGINAL: vincentML
quote:

So is every American entitled to eat and is food stamps something that ought to be that ultimate guarantor?”


No, sorry. Get a job.


quote:

Otherwise, the rest of you clueless are welcome to STFU about whoever is getting food stamps when the whole US economy is seemingly based upon how many billions of tax dollars we can shovel into the corporate trough, and how quickly.


Sorry, you went through all that trouble but if you read the rest of my posts in this thread you will see i was acting as an agent provocateur. My post was bull shit.




vincentML -> RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? (5/29/2017 7:18:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

in the halcyon days of yore, the question was asked, "Am I my brothers keeper?" Question is still with us, and nothing has been cured yet.


I don't take that to mean "cures" I take it to mean comfort and sustain.




MrRodgers -> RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? (5/29/2017 7:18:55 PM)


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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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There are those whose mental health precludes them from benefiting from ANY program. Basically, there are always going to be people who don't or won't live by societies mores for whatever reason, and what do you do with them? Feeding them seems the least .... smelly solution. Human corpses smell - for a while.


In the 17th Century, whenever, England passed the poor laws and (correct me if my memory is bad, it was such a long while ago) established work houses to which the poor were gathered up from the streets and sentenced as criminals. When the work houses were too overflowing the leftovers were shipped to the colonies as indentured servants. By nature of being poor a person was either a criminal or immoral. I believe the spirit of the poor laws dwells as an agitated ghost even today in the political Right of this nation, and motivates the self-righteous law givers. It is an inhumane and immoral way to categorize the poor, especially the mentally ill, the schizophrenics, the personality dysfunctional. It is hardly Christian philosophy, is it?

Close but they did at first (1601) Q. Eliz. I 'Act of the relief of the Poor' which made local parishes first responsible for the poor, funded by a small land tax. That tax survives today called the 'Council Tax.' The act made no mention of workhouses but required the materials be supplied for work. Then prison was considered for those who refused.

End of the 1600's with the the establishment of poorhouses, you were right, even though it was men only, Children and women were sent into service. New Poor Law, passed in 1834, which significantly modified the existing system of poor relief. The later statute altered the Poor Law system from one which was administered haphazardly at a local parish level to a highly centralized system which encouraged the large-scale development of workhouses by Poor Law Unions.




vincentML -> RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? (5/29/2017 7:22:45 PM)

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Lol... it is a social contract that was made. I have every confidence if it went to the Supreme Court they would rule in that manner.


Sweet lady, you are such a naive child. [:)]




Edwird -> RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? (5/29/2017 7:28:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
ORIGINAL: vincentML quote:
So is every American entitled to eat and is food stamps something that ought to be that ultimate guarantor?”
No, sorry. Get a job.
quote:

Otherwise, the rest of you clueless are welcome to STFU about whoever is getting food stamps when the whole US economy is seemingly based upon how many billions of tax dollars we can shovel into the corporate trough, and how quickly.

Sorry, you went through all that trouble but if you read the rest of my posts in this thread you will see i was acting as an agent provocateur. My post was bull shit.


No offense intended. It just provided a starting point.

I didn't go 'through all that trouble' just for your sake. I hope you were paying better attention than that.




Edwird -> RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? (5/29/2017 7:33:42 PM)


And I didn't read through more than three pages before I took a notion to respond.

Maybe four, I don't remember.




MrRodgers -> RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? (5/29/2017 7:37:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

in the halcyon days of yore, the question was asked, "Am I my brothers keeper?" Question is still with us, and nothing has been cured yet.


I don't take that to mean "cures" I take it to mean comfort and sustain.

The answer is no (unless blood) and I am not going to 'love' my enemy either.




MrRodgers -> RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? (5/29/2017 7:38:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

They will never pass cutting food stamps. Too many moderate republicans have a conscience.

Under Obama, the repubs in congress were all too eager to cut food stamps and the moderate repubs went along.

This 'anti-establishment, clean out the swamp' Trump budget, is in fact...republican establishment 101 and will only be adjusted around the edges.

Similar to Trumpcare, it is a disguised in the form of a starting point for serious cuts in everything but corporate welfare and the MIC.

Trumpcare is a massive 'permanent' tax cut for the rich disguised as a repeal of Obamacare and can't be filibustered and will have no automatic 'sunset' or expirations as did GWB original tax cuts from 2003 et al.

I agree. Don't we have 43 million receiving food stamps? Is that the number. Could it be that? 12% of the population?

I think it's 42 now, down from 47 million.




MrRodgers -> RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? (5/29/2017 7:46:48 PM)


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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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Probably for similar reasons that people were so vocal during Johnson's reign among others where free (everything) was handed out and it changed nothing and in many ways, made things worse.


Everything was not handed out. The war on poverty failed because the money was diverted to the War in Vietnam after 1964.

Every war is first a profit center and a good portion went to providers and suppliers. Similar to health care where Medicare for just one aspect, has been a windfall for so many of the same and in far too many cases...outright fraud.




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