RE: What makes a terrorist? (Full Version)

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Real0ne -> RE: What makes a terrorist? (6/14/2017 6:22:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

really?

The US murdering almost 200 civilians at waco over a fucking gun permit that wasnt even needed?


No idea what incident is this. But if you are saying US government open fire on 200 civilians and killed them kinda like China Tienanmen square incident, to squash protestors. Then yea, that would be Terrorism by the government on their people. China is another big terrorist organization but they only terrorise Chinese people really so far. And their goal is have control on all Chinese people. Not interested in non-Chinese as it's a race, and non-Chinese can't turn Chinese anyway.

Islam goal is to have control over all Muslims and non-Muslims eventually. And will achieve this through multiple strategies.

But I highly doubt that's what US did, because remember that incident with those guys who took over a government building? The government just starve them out really. Didn't attack them at all, to prevent end up killing them.



The US came in with a tank and shut down a religious group by setting them on fire because they did not agree and live according to state religion.




Greta75 -> RE: What makes a terrorist? (6/14/2017 6:23:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
Look at 911, instead of going after those connected with the incident we go in and attack iraq who had not a damn thing to do with towers, then move in and take over the whole ME, but thats ok because an individual is a terrorist and the MOB is the good guys. Like this aint rocket science.

Iraq is not okay, but considering the democrats approved this too. Everybody blamed Bush, but whatever evidence they had, made them sure Saddam is in league with Osama.

I mean a President of the United States couldn't just say, "Lets go invade this country." Without full congress approval right? They would have to convinced the other party too. And they would have to show evidence.

It was revenge, pure revenge for 9/11. I don't consider it terrorism. End of the day, they took out one dictator and gave the country back to their people. It's not like US is ruling Iraq.

But when Islam takes over a Nation, you can be sure, they aren't into in to kill one leader and then leave. They are taking over and instilling sharia.

The US did not go into Iraq with the intention to kill as many Iraqi as possible. This is the difference. There were casualties in war, but their target was Saddam. It's not like a terrorist attack in the West. Their goal is simply to attack as many innocent people as possible. Just kill innocent people. It's a total different scenario.




Greta75 -> RE: What makes a terrorist? (6/14/2017 6:27:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
The US came in with a tank and shut down a religious group by setting them on fire because they did not agree and live according to state religion.

That doesn't make sense. Your first amendment allows freedom of speech and religion. China does not have laws that allow freedom of speech, so their local laws allow their government to legally shoot people who protest. But your country does not, unless things turn violent and protestors held guns to attack the police. And the police shot back in self defense and end up killing them.

I think I'd need some link to this incident to believe this is true. And how many years ago was this?
It wasn't that straight forward I am sure.




Real0ne -> RE: What makes a terrorist? (6/14/2017 6:28:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

really?

The US murdering almost 200 civilians at waco over a fucking gun permit that wasnt even needed?



Hold onto your tinfoil hat

Yes, the US government can be guilty of terrorism, and probably has used it. Ours is a government of men, and therefore imperfect

The point is that killing and wars alone, violence alone aren't NECESSARILY terrorism

Though unlike Islam our leaders are accountable to the masses (we vote), and we are free to speak our minds etc, and terrorism is illegal whereas in Islam it is expected that true believers participate

It is illegal to not commit terrorism, or to contribute to the cause of global jihad in Allah's name






'Probably' used it? You been asleep all your life? More like when havent they used it more like it.

Do tell us what war is not politically motivated?

Do tell us how our gubmint is accountable, when all we can do is vote in the next asstwit who pardons the last asstwit and does the same shit under a new euphemism?

Damn this went from deep to torrential flood!








Real0ne -> RE: What makes a terrorist? (6/14/2017 6:32:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
The US came in with a tank and shut down a religious group by setting them on fire because they did not agree and live according to state religion.

That doesn't make sense. Your first amendment allows freedom of speech and religion. China does not have laws that allow freedom of speech, so their local laws allow their government to legally shoot people who protest. But your country does not, unless things turn violent and protestors held guns to attack the police. And the police shot back in self defense and end up killing them.

I think I'd need some link to this incident to believe this is true. And how many years ago was this?
It wasn't that straight forward I am sure.



you can wipe your ass with the constitution, the mormons are not allowed to practice their evil religion that allows multiple partner marriages, the MOB religion rules at the end of a barrel of a gun and multiple partner marriages are illegal.

You see you cant even discuss this crap unless you have sound definitions so we can all sing from the same song sheet.

Waco FLIR imaging Pt.1


On February 28, 1993 at approximately 9:30 a.m., 100 lawmen from the Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms division of the United States Treasury Department descended on a religious compound owned and operated by the Branch Davidian







PeonForHer -> RE: What makes a terrorist? (6/14/2017 6:39:52 AM)

quote:


I am a little sad at the direction the thread has taken so far. I would have thought that any claim that terrorist acts/acts of mass violence were "predictable and preventable" might merit some examination of that claim.


I bet you are. I saw this thread earlier; had to go away; came back and saw the number of replies and thought, 'Lordy, Tweak must be pleased!'

One thing - should be obvious, but it somehow slips out of the mind - so many of these attacks (the last three in the UK, for instance) involved attackers who were very, very keen to be *known* as the attackers. In the last one on Westminster Bridge, for instance, they could have killed some people by just hitting them in their van. Few shouts of 'Allah Akhbar' through the windows; drive on at full speed ... and, conceivably, get away. Or at least have a chance of getting away. But they didn't do that: they got out and started slashing and stabbing.

There wasn't any deliberate attempt to connect themselves with ISIS, even. They were concerned only for it to be known that they were Islamists - and for their individual names to become famous (or infamous). That's all. As we know here from the IRA attacks - it's easy to kill people (while making it clear why they've been killed) but never be caught.

Biddulph's premise chimes for me. There's so much about these killings that seems to me to be about ego - about massive desire for recognition. If true, it seems vital to me to work out where that comes from and learn how to deal with it.




Real0ne -> RE: What makes a terrorist? (6/14/2017 6:42:11 AM)

as far as I know people dont generally go postal unless driven to that point

and you cant reasonably a Few shouts of 'Allah Akhbar' for anything


Look at kermit roosevlt, that exactly how his coup was successful and overthrew the democratically elected shaw of iran, its suckers chow




BoscoX -> RE: What makes a terrorist? (6/14/2017 6:43:04 AM)


You seem to believe that every law enforcement act, every battle, every act of violence is 'terrorism' - and if that's really what you think, that is just stupid. The word terrorism has a meaning that is separate from words such as war, slaughter, violence, etc.




Greta75 -> RE: What makes a terrorist? (6/14/2017 6:43:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

you can wipe your ass with the constitution, the mormons are not allowed to practice their evil religion that allows multiple partner marriages, the MOB religion rules at the end of a barrel of a gun and multiple partner marriages are illegal.

You see you cant even discuss this crap unless you have sound definitions so we can all sing from the same song sheet.

Waco FLIR imaging Pt.1


On February 28, 1993 at approximately 9:30 a.m., 100 lawmen from the Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms division of the United States Treasury Department descended on a religious compound owned and operated by the Branch Davidian

So I was right. The authorities shot in self-defense.

I knew they didn't like go in and go on a rampage to murder 200 people.




Real0ne -> RE: What makes a terrorist? (6/14/2017 6:47:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


You seem to believe that every law enforcement act, every battle, every act of violence is 'terrorism' - and if that's really what you think, that is just stupid. The word terrorism has a meaning that is separate from words such as war, slaughter, violence, etc.



There you go, if you expand the scope wide enough you will get some traction eventually.

Cool I await your definition of what terrorism is if not violence or are you selling wars are not violent?




Real0ne -> RE: What makes a terrorist? (6/14/2017 6:48:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

you can wipe your ass with the constitution, the mormons are not allowed to practice their evil religion that allows multiple partner marriages, the MOB religion rules at the end of a barrel of a gun and multiple partner marriages are illegal.

You see you cant even discuss this crap unless you have sound definitions so we can all sing from the same song sheet.

Waco FLIR imaging Pt.1


On February 28, 1993 at approximately 9:30 a.m., 100 lawmen from the Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms division of the United States Treasury Department descended on a religious compound owned and operated by the Branch Davidian

So I was right. The authorities shot in self-defense.

I knew they didn't like go in and go on a rampage to murder 200 people.



The davidians shot in self defense.


11 in Texas Sect Are Acquitted Of Key Charges
By SAM HOWE VERHOVEK,
Published: February 27, 1994


Feb 27, 1994 - Eleven Branch Davidians were acquitted of all murder and ... in which most of the defendants argued that they had acted in fright and self-defense. ... the Branch Davidians' shooting of the agents, defense lawyers were quick ...



SAN ANTONIO, Feb. 26— Eleven Branch Davidians were acquitted of all murder and conspiracy charges today in the deaths of 4 of the 76 Federal agents who raided their compound near Waco almost exactly a year ago.



Evidence to supportthe defendants' self-defense assertions came from recordings of a 911 emergency call made during the Feb. 28 gunfight by a sect member, Wayne Martin. Mr. Martin, a Harvard-trained lawyer, could be heard shouting on the tapes: "There's 75 men around our building and they're shooting at us! Tell 'em there's women and children in here and to call it off!" At least 25 times, he asks officials to stop firing at cult members.

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/02/27/us/11-in-texas-sect-are-acquitted-of-key-charges.html?pagewanted=all





Greta75 -> RE: What makes a terrorist? (6/14/2017 6:49:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
There wasn't any deliberate attempt to connect themselves with ISIS, even. They were concerned only for it to be known that they were Islamists - and for their individual names to become famous (or infamous). That's all. As we know here from the IRA attacks - it's easy to kill people (while making it clear why they've been killed) but never be caught.

Biddulph's premise chimes for me. There's so much about these killings that seems to me to be about ego - about massive desire for recognition. If true, it seems vital to me to work out where that comes from and learn how to deal with it.

ISIS communicates with Lone Wolves through an app where it's impossible for the authorities to trace and listen in their conversation.
Secondly, the whole point of lone wolves operations is to leave as little ISIS trace as possible. So that they can throw the potential terrorist investigators off their trail. Which was why some of these guys of the recent attacks were marked as potential terrorist but not monitored closely enough, because they probably did a good job in reducing their trail connection to ISIS.




BoscoX -> RE: What makes a terrorist? (6/14/2017 6:53:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


You seem to believe that every law enforcement act, every battle, every act of violence is 'terrorism' - and if that's really what you think, that is just stupid. The word terrorism has a meaning that is separate from words such as war, slaughter, violence, etc.



There you go, if you expand the scope wide enough you will get some traction eventually.

Cool I await your definition of what terrorism is if not violence or are you selling wars are not violent?



I included the Webster definition of "terrorism" in post 33 above when I wrote,

quote:

Terrorism is by definition not necessarily the same as war, mass murder, or killing generally.

Mohammad taught, Islam teaches the systematic use of terror as a tactic to be used in the name of Allah (especially against civilians) as a means of coercion. Maiming people, targeting children with horriffic injuries, crucifixion, etc are messages to populations

Quran 8:12





Real0ne -> RE: What makes a terrorist? (6/14/2017 6:56:45 AM)

well I included wiki on the first page and there is no universal definition for terrorism. what makes your definition any more valid than the one I posted?

It still comes down to MOB rules, its ok if a mob agrees its ok and it not ok if an individual does the same, both are using violence to influence a political outcome.





Greta75 -> RE: What makes a terrorist? (6/14/2017 7:00:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
The US came in with a tank and shut down a religious group by setting them on fire because they did not agree and live according to state religion.

But according to them, the religious group had like some serious heavy duty explosives as weapons too. This is what happens if you are going to arrest a group with illegal dangerous weapons. I think a tank is reasonable protection for themselves.
Personally, if the police went on a tank to flatten unarm civilians. That is another story.
But they are dealing with heavily armed group of civilians.




Real0ne -> RE: What makes a terrorist? (6/14/2017 7:02:45 AM)

yeh this is the land of the free, the state is free to make up any bullshit they want. These court cases such as the davidians acquittal are hushed or mentioned in passing on the news so not to draw attention to it long 'after' the political agenda is achieved.

the feds fired on the davidians first and the davidians begged them to stop screaming there were women and children in danger and they did not.


I have news for you this is america and the citizens are armed






Greta75 -> RE: What makes a terrorist? (6/14/2017 7:06:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
Feb 27, 1994 - Eleven Branch Davidians were acquitted of all murder and ... in which most of the defendants argued that they had acted in fright and self-defense. ... the Branch Davidians' shooting of the agents, defense lawyers were quick ...

Sure. You know what. End of the day, this is the American mentality. They cling on to their right to hold guns to protect themselves against authorities. The authorities are gonna go trigger heavy because they are going up against arm civilians. So it's the civilian life or their own.
In a gun wielding country. Everything changes.

It's very different for like China, when the government goes in and shoot innocent student protestors, guns are banned there, so no civilian have weapons. That is clear cut terrorism.

But in your case. You have the authorities going in to apprehend a group of people heavily armed with weapons.

It's inevitable fight involving each side using their weapons, both will claim in self-defense.

You know, in a gun-free country, there is almost zero excuse for a police to use his gun at all. And there wouldn't be such incidents.

Although IF they were tip off of a gang warehouse filled with illegal weapons, chances are, same shit will happen. People will get shot and killed in the process. Probably a tank would be sent in if they were said to have explosives too.




Real0ne -> RE: What makes a terrorist? (6/14/2017 7:10:01 AM)

isnt working in britain, gun deaths and gun related crime is steadily on the rise, only law abiding citizens turn in their weapons.

Thats the way america was designed, the people have weapons because jolly old britain taught us what happens when the people do not have the power to defend themselves against daMOBcracy.

Waco is a perfect example, the davidians needed a tank to defend themselves.

Whats this crap about illegal weapons?

See what I mean, you can wipe your ass with the constitution, since it says arms, not guns, not weapons, and it is constitutionally legal to own arms which 'arms' like it or not include nukes. The idea behind arms was a balance in power between the people and damob .









Greta75 -> RE: What makes a terrorist? (6/14/2017 7:14:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

yeh this is the land of the free, the state is free to make up any bullshit they want. These court cases such as the davidians acquittal are hushed or mentioned in passing on the news so not to draw attention to it long 'after' the political agenda is achieved.

the feds fired on the davidians first and the davidians begged them to stop screaming there were women and children in danger and they did not.

I have news for you this is america and the citizens are armed



Think about this.
You have a big group of people hole up in a house filled with heavy weapons.

Authorities come in with their heavy weapons to apprehend those people.

Even IF there were women and children inside. But all the weapons are inside with those women and children, WTF? They were just using the women and children as human shield. Damn stupid cult!

If they don't all come out and surrender without their weapons together with their women and children. Chances are, authorities are stomping full weapon swinging.

I remember an incident in Singapore where our airplane got hijacked by Islamic Terrorists but was on the ground in the airport filled with civilians. The survivors who lived to tell the tale said the commandos just stomped in and yell at everyone to duck and started shooting indiscriminately. They can't even be bothered to negotiate with the terrorists.

I am sure some civilians would have gotten hurt. They were like just gonna get those terrorist with weapons! By hook or crook!




WickedsDesire -> RE: What makes a terrorist? (6/14/2017 7:19:22 AM)

Might as well shove this one in here. One definition

quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire

Who was behind the jihadist attacks on Europe and North America?

More than 400 people have died in jihadist attacks in the West during the past three years. What can we learn, asks Dr Lorenzo Vidino.

Although the vast majority of Islamist attacks are elsewhere in the world, an unprecedented number in Europe and North America - more than 50 in total - have put the authorities under great pressure to prevent further deaths.

What do we know of the individuals who carried out the attacks - their life in the West, whether they were known to the authorities and with whom they were working?

The first look at the data behind the attacks - everything from the age of the perpetrators, to immigration status - offers counter-terrorism officials, and the public, an insight that could help them identify the best responses.

Where the attacks were
We identified 52 attacks between December 2014 and early June 2017 that we considered to be acts of jihadist terrorism.

This period follows the declaration of a "caliphate" by the so-called Islamic State in parts of Syria and Iraq in June 2014.

A relatively limited number of countries were affected.

Six were in Europe: France - the worst affected country, Germany, the United Kingdom, Belgium, Denmark and Sweden.

There were also attacks in the United States and Canada.
Flowers left near the Orlando nightclub where a terrorist attack took place in June 2016
Regardless of country, most attacks were in large towns and cities - including London, Paris, Nice, Berlin, Brussels and Orlando.

A few attacks hit iconic targets, such as the Champs-Elysees and the Louvre museum in Paris, and Westminster in London.

Many others targeted crowded spaces such as busy pedestrian areas, entertainment venues or transport hubs.

But some terrorist attacks have hit more unusual places, including an office Christmas party and a service at a church.

How the attacks were identified
We looked at attacks motivated by jihadist ideology, that involved deliberate acts of violence against other people and were intended to intimidate or convey a message to a larger group. Other organisations use different definitions.

Researchers used open-source material and interviews with officials
It is possible that some attacks did not come to our attention, or that full details are not available
The research covers the US, Canada and the 28 member states of the EU, plus Norway and Switzerland
Attacks motivated by other ideologies - such as the murder of Jo Cox - are not included in this study
The dead and injured

In total, the 52 attacks caused 403 deaths and left more than 1,600 people injured.
The perpetrators are not included in these figures.

The Paris attack of November 2015 was the deadliest, with 130 people killed, including 90 at the Bataclan theatre.

France also saw the Nice lorry attack, which left 86 people dead.

There were many other attacks that left many people dead and others injured.

In Orlando, 49 people were killed in an attack on a gay nightclub

Bombings at Brussels airport and at a metro station left 32 people dead

14 people were killed at a Christmas party in San Bernardino, California

12 people died when a lorry was driven into a crowded Christmas market in Berlin

12 people died when the Paris offices of Charlie Hebdo were attacked in January 2015

Five people were killed in the Westminster attack in April

The Manchester Arena bombing in May led to 22 deaths

The London Bridge attack in June left eight people dead

In total, these 10 attacks were responsible for 370 deaths.

However, most of the attacks did not cause casualties, with the exclusion of the perpetrators...........etc

Jihadism: Tracking a month of deadly attacks

Jihadist attacks killed more than 5,000 people in just one month, an investigation by the BBC World Service and King's College London has found.

Civilians bore the brunt of the violence, with more than 2,000 killed in reported jihadist incidents during November 2014. Islamic State carried out the most attacks, adding to the spiralling death toll in Iraq and Syria. Explore the map to find out more.....etc






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