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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Maybe reduce your dosage. There seem to be unpleasant side effects.

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I think it involves mania. When you are manic, you can 'seem' to everyone else to be 'normal'. Meanwhile your mind is spinning with different beliefs that you've come across and these beliefs really affect your perceptions. While this is true for everyone, if your mind is processing things at a manic pace, you tend not to be able to 'reason' with yourself. Your mind is in flight mode, so not only do you lose your ability to reason, you also lose your ability to stop yourself from acting out on your beliefs and perceptions. For some people that might involve promiscuous behavior. For others it involves criminal behavior, etc... depending on the motivating beliefs and perceptions adopted.

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

I think it involves mania. When you are manic, you can 'seem' to everyone else to be 'normal'. Meanwhile your mind is spinning with different beliefs that you've come across and these beliefs really affect your perceptions. While this is true for everyone, if your mind is processing things at a manic pace, you tend not to be able to 'reason' with yourself. Your mind is in flight mode, so not only do you lose your ability to reason, you also lose your ability to stop yourself from acting out on your beliefs and perceptions. For some people that might involve promiscuous behavior. For others it involves criminal behavior, etc... depending on the motivating beliefs and perceptions adopted.

Very insightful, Tamaka. A plausible scenario. Are you suggesting this in place of Tweak’s hypothesis or as a follow-on? Is the loser so humiliated by his failures he falls into a mania before he acts?

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

great so you got a political slogan to attach to people who are driven to violence by the state. how does that make a case?


Why Do People Resort To Violence?
Psychology reveals the eternal spark that ignites our fiery rage.
Posted Dec 23, 2011

I can't help but cringe every time I hear on the news of another parent killing his or her child, youth killing classmates, or coworkers shooting coworkers. Many people ask, "What's wrong with these people? Why is there so much violence in our world?"

We used to think that extreme violence took place only in city streets and in countries at war; we now know that violence manifests in churches, schools, rural areas, and small towns. It claims millions of victims all over the world every year. But where does this hostility stem from and how do we make sense out of what are seemingly senseless acts of aggression?

In my 30 years of experience and research, I have identified numerous factors that determine our behavior and whether a person is at risk for developing violent tendencies. These factors include biological traits, family bonding, individual characteristics, intelligence and education, child development, peer relationships, cultural shaping and resiliency.

Each factor of a person's life or make up can affect and be affected by another factor. When the accumulation of negative factors (such as maltreatment, chaotic neighborhoods, or psychological problems) and the absence of positive factors (such as opportunities to be successful, adults who provide encouragement, or a resilient temperament) reach a threshold, that's when violence is more likely to erupt as a means of coping with life's problems. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/stop-the-cycle/201112/why-do-people-resort-violence


and of course we have state overlords that are corrupt to the core setting the perfect examples controlling our lives.

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ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
In my thinking and I am not alone, the greatest threat of terrorism today is not the occasional brutal crime or murder but the group-think that takes hold of the mind especially as it relates to religion. As Freud informed, as long as people persist in believing there is an afterlife, they will insist in believing in gods and will make them up to do so.

Thus, not only does religion poison everything, it particularly poisons the mind to the level of acting on radical, religious fundamentalism which today is ISIS and Al Quada. So in effect, not all but the bulk of terrorism today is acted on by people who are now the religious sociopath or worse...the psychopath.

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VincentML
Are there any studies that link these characteristics, this need for masculine redemption to men who commit violence? If so, I wonder how convincing they are.

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Although I understand why it was necessary to refer to 'other' social and cultural values, I think it is better to isolate the variables of interest to avoid confusion and picky criticism.

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ORIGINAL: heavyblinker
I think the greatest threat of terrorism is people who feel they are being persecuted and thus violence is justified.

This is what drives right-wing extremists who feel they are losing their country to foreign hordes, what drives Islamic terrorists who believe they are striking back against imperialistic America, what drives a Bernie Sanders supporter who thinks something must be done to shoot up a GOP baseball practice, and what drives people like Termy8or to wish that someone's family gets raped and threaten to kill anyone who comes near him.
They're all exactly the same... they are afraid of what they think is going to happen to them, so feel the need to strike before it's too late.

I really wish I could remember the name, but a few years ago I watched a great documentary about what drives soldiers to commit genocide.
It isn't simply following orders, or doing their duty-- they had to be convinced that the people they were slaughtering had deeply wronged them somehow... therefore killing them was totally justified.
It isn't sociopathy and these people aren't different from others-- it's something that everyone feels in varying degrees throughout their lives, and if they aren't self-aware, they will succumb to it.

With Islamic Extremists, the religion isn't the primary driver... the primary driver is that for decades foreign powers have been making most of the major decisions concerning the Middle East-- sanctions, wars, capitalist exploitation, etc.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker
I think the greatest threat of terrorism is people who feel they are being persecuted and thus violence is justified.

This is what drives right-wing extremists who feel they are losing their country to foreign hordes, what drives Islamic terrorists who believe they are striking back against imperialistic America, what drives a Bernie Sanders supporter who thinks something must be done to shoot up a GOP baseball practice, and what drives people like Termy8or to wish that someone's family gets raped and threaten to kill anyone who comes near him.
They're all exactly the same... they are afraid of what they think is going to happen to them, so feel the need to strike before it's too late.

I really wish I could remember the name, but a few years ago I watched a great documentary about what drives soldiers to commit genocide.
It isn't simply following orders, or doing their duty-- they had to be convinced that the people they were slaughtering had deeply wronged them somehow... therefore killing them was totally justified.
It isn't sociopathy and these people aren't different from others-- it's something that everyone feels in varying degrees throughout their lives, and if they aren't self-aware, they will succumb to it.

With Islamic Extremists, the religion isn't the primary driver... the primary driver is that for decades foreign powers have been making most of the major decisions concerning the Middle East-- sanctions, wars, capitalist exploitation, etc.

Yes. Those who commit acts of large scale violence often complain of persecution, which can be real or imagined. It might be the case that your argument is considerably strengthened if we add perceptions of powerlessness and worthlessness (again real or imagined) to the picture. It's not like these three factors are unlikely bedfellows, they are often found together. The case of the Palestinians being an obvious example.

Your point about foreign powers excluding locals from the corridors of power in their own land is a strong one I feel. It's hardly a stretch to go from there to persecution, powerlessness and worthlessness is it? And it is widely accepted that a hostile foreign military occupation is one of the primary drivers of terrorism.

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ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


Yes. Those who commit acts of large scale violence often complain of persecution, which can be real or imagined. It might be the case that your argument is considerably strengthened if we add perceptions of powerlessness and worthlessness (again real or imagined) to the picture. It's not like these three factors are unlikely bedfellows, they are often found together. The case of the Palestinians being an obvious example.

Your point about foreign powers excluding locals from the corridors of power in their own land is a strong one I feel. It's hardly a stretch to go from there to persecution, powerlessness and worthlessness is it? And it is widely accepted that a hostile foreign military occupation is one of the primary drivers of terrorism.

Except that you didn't see the Jews reacting with terrorist acts when they were in that situation.

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ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker
I think the greatest threat of terrorism is people who feel they are being persecuted and thus violence is justified.

This is what drives right-wing extremists who feel they are losing their country to foreign hordes, what drives Islamic terrorists who believe they are striking back against imperialistic America, what drives a Bernie Sanders supporter who thinks something must be done to shoot up a GOP baseball practice, and what drives people like Termy8or to wish that someone's family gets raped and threaten to kill anyone who comes near him.
They're all exactly the same... they are afraid of what they think is going to happen to them, so feel the need to strike before it's too late.

I really wish I could remember the name, but a few years ago I watched a great documentary about what drives soldiers to commit genocide.
It isn't simply following orders, or doing their duty-- they had to be convinced that the people they were slaughtering had deeply wronged them somehow... therefore killing them was totally justified.
It isn't sociopathy and these people aren't different from others-- it's something that everyone feels in varying degrees throughout their lives, and if they aren't self-aware, they will succumb to it.

With Islamic Extremists, the religion isn't the primary driver... the primary driver is that for decades foreign powers have been making most of the major decisions concerning the Middle East-- sanctions, wars, capitalist exploitation, etc.

Yes. Those who commit acts of large scale violence often complain of persecution, which can be real or imagined. It might be the case that your argument is considerably strengthened if we add perceptions of powerlessness and worthlessness (again real or imagined) to the picture. It's not like these three factors are unlikely bedfellows, they are often found together. The case of the Palestinians being an obvious example.

Your point about foreign powers excluding locals from the corridors of power in their own land is a strong one I feel. It's hardly a stretch to go from there to persecution, powerlessness and worthlessness is it? And it is widely accepted that a hostile foreign military occupation is one of the primary drivers of terrorism.

Except that you didn't see the Jews reacting with terrorist acts when they were in that situation.

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ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker
I think the greatest threat of terrorism is people who feel they are being persecuted and thus violence is justified.

This is what drives right-wing extremists who feel they are losing their country to foreign hordes, what drives Islamic terrorists who believe they are striking back against imperialistic America, what drives a Bernie Sanders supporter who thinks something must be done to shoot up a GOP baseball practice, and what drives people like Termy8or to wish that someone's family gets raped and threaten to kill anyone who comes near him.
They're all exactly the same... they are afraid of what they think is going to happen to them, so feel the need to strike before it's too late.

I really wish I could remember the name, but a few years ago I watched a great documentary about what drives soldiers to commit genocide.
It isn't simply following orders, or doing their duty-- they had to be convinced that the people they were slaughtering had deeply wronged them somehow... therefore killing them was totally justified.
It isn't sociopathy and these people aren't different from others-- it's something that everyone feels in varying degrees throughout their lives, and if they aren't self-aware, they will succumb to it.

With Islamic Extremists, the religion isn't the primary driver... the primary driver is that for decades foreign powers have been making most of the major decisions concerning the Middle East-- sanctions, wars, capitalist exploitation, etc.

Yes. Those who commit acts of large scale violence often complain of persecution, which can be real or imagined. It might be the case that your argument is considerably strengthened if we add perceptions of powerlessness and worthlessness (again real or imagined) to the picture. It's not like these three factors are unlikely bedfellows, they are often found together. The case of the Palestinians being an obvious example.

Your point about foreign powers excluding locals from the corridors of power in their own land is a strong one I feel. It's hardly a stretch to go from there to persecution, powerlessness and worthlessness is it? And it is widely accepted that a hostile foreign military occupation is one of the primary drivers of terrorism.

Except that you didn't see the Jews reacting with terrorist acts when they were in that situation.

How would you describe killing the first born male child of every household in Egypt, then?

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

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ORIGINAL: tamaka

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker
I think the greatest threat of terrorism is people who feel they are being persecuted and thus violence is justified.

This is what drives right-wing extremists who feel they are losing their country to foreign hordes, what drives Islamic terrorists who believe they are striking back against imperialistic America, what drives a Bernie Sanders supporter who thinks something must be done to shoot up a GOP baseball practice, and what drives people like Termy8or to wish that someone's family gets raped and threaten to kill anyone who comes near him.
They're all exactly the same... they are afraid of what they think is going to happen to them, so feel the need to strike before it's too late.

I really wish I could remember the name, but a few years ago I watched a great documentary about what drives soldiers to commit genocide.
It isn't simply following orders, or doing their duty-- they had to be convinced that the people they were slaughtering had deeply wronged them somehow... therefore killing them was totally justified.
It isn't sociopathy and these people aren't different from others-- it's something that everyone feels in varying degrees throughout their lives, and if they aren't self-aware, they will succumb to it.

With Islamic Extremists, the religion isn't the primary driver... the primary driver is that for decades foreign powers have been making most of the major decisions concerning the Middle East-- sanctions, wars, capitalist exploitation, etc.

Yes. Those who commit acts of large scale violence often complain of persecution, which can be real or imagined. It might be the case that your argument is considerably strengthened if we add perceptions of powerlessness and worthlessness (again real or imagined) to the picture. It's not like these three factors are unlikely bedfellows, they are often found together. The case of the Palestinians being an obvious example.

Your point about foreign powers excluding locals from the corridors of power in their own land is a strong one I feel. It's hardly a stretch to go from there to persecution, powerlessness and worthlessness is it? And it is widely accepted that a hostile foreign military occupation is one of the primary drivers of terrorism.

Except that you didn't see the Jews reacting with terrorist acts when they were in that situation.

How would you describe killing the first born male child of every household in Egypt, then?

Self-serving fable, I should think.

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ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker
I think the greatest threat of terrorism is people who feel they are being persecuted and thus violence is justified.

This is what drives right-wing extremists who feel they are losing their country to foreign hordes, what drives Islamic terrorists who believe they are striking back against imperialistic America, what drives a Bernie Sanders supporter who thinks something must be done to shoot up a GOP baseball practice, and what drives people like Termy8or to wish that someone's family gets raped and threaten to kill anyone who comes near him.
They're all exactly the same... they are afraid of what they think is going to happen to them, so feel the need to strike before it's too late.

I really wish I could remember the name, but a few years ago I watched a great documentary about what drives soldiers to commit genocide.
It isn't simply following orders, or doing their duty-- they had to be convinced that the people they were slaughtering had deeply wronged them somehow... therefore killing them was totally justified.
It isn't sociopathy and these people aren't different from others-- it's something that everyone feels in varying degrees throughout their lives, and if they aren't self-aware, they will succumb to it.

With Islamic Extremists, the religion isn't the primary driver... the primary driver is that for decades foreign powers have been making most of the major decisions concerning the Middle East-- sanctions, wars, capitalist exploitation, etc.

Yes. Those who commit acts of large scale violence often complain of persecution, which can be real or imagined. It might be the case that your argument is considerably strengthened if we add perceptions of powerlessness and worthlessness (again real or imagined) to the picture. It's not like these three factors are unlikely bedfellows, they are often found together. The case of the Palestinians being an obvious example.

Your point about foreign powers excluding locals from the corridors of power in their own land is a strong one I feel. It's hardly a stretch to go from there to persecution, powerlessness and worthlessness is it? And it is widely accepted that a hostile foreign military occupation is one of the primary drivers of terrorism.

Except that you didn't see the Jews reacting with terrorist acts when they were in that situation.

How would you describe killing the first born male child of every household in Egypt, then?

Self-serving fable, I should think.

I was hoping for "an act of God" as an excuse, in fact.

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker
I think the greatest threat of terrorism is people who feel they are being persecuted and thus violence is justified.

This is what drives right-wing extremists who feel they are losing their country to foreign hordes, what drives Islamic terrorists who believe they are striking back against imperialistic America, what drives a Bernie Sanders supporter who thinks something must be done to shoot up a GOP baseball practice, and what drives people like Termy8or to wish that someone's family gets raped and threaten to kill anyone who comes near him.
They're all exactly the same... they are afraid of what they think is going to happen to them, so feel the need to strike before it's too late.

I really wish I could remember the name, but a few years ago I watched a great documentary about what drives soldiers to commit genocide.
It isn't simply following orders, or doing their duty-- they had to be convinced that the people they were slaughtering had deeply wronged them somehow... therefore killing them was totally justified.
It isn't sociopathy and these people aren't different from others-- it's something that everyone feels in varying degrees throughout their lives, and if they aren't self-aware, they will succumb to it.

With Islamic Extremists, the religion isn't the primary driver... the primary driver is that for decades foreign powers have been making most of the major decisions concerning the Middle East-- sanctions, wars, capitalist exploitation, etc.

Yes. Those who commit acts of large scale violence often complain of persecution, which can be real or imagined. It might be the case that your argument is considerably strengthened if we add perceptions of powerlessness and worthlessness (again real or imagined) to the picture. It's not like these three factors are unlikely bedfellows, they are often found together. The case of the Palestinians being an obvious example.

Your point about foreign powers excluding locals from the corridors of power in their own land is a strong one I feel. It's hardly a stretch to go from there to persecution, powerlessness and worthlessness is it? And it is widely accepted that a hostile foreign military occupation is one of the primary drivers of terrorism.

Except that you didn't see the Jews reacting with terrorist acts when they were in that situation.

How would you describe killing the first born male child of every household in Egypt, then?

Self-serving fable, I should think.

I was hoping for "an act of God" as an excuse, in fact.

Same thing, no?

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker
I think the greatest threat of terrorism is people who feel they are being persecuted and thus violence is justified.

This is what drives right-wing extremists who feel they are losing their country to foreign hordes, what drives Islamic terrorists who believe they are striking back against imperialistic America, what drives a Bernie Sanders supporter who thinks something must be done to shoot up a GOP baseball practice, and what drives people like Termy8or to wish that someone's family gets raped and threaten to kill anyone who comes near him.
They're all exactly the same... they are afraid of what they think is going to happen to them, so feel the need to strike before it's too late.

I really wish I could remember the name, but a few years ago I watched a great documentary about what drives soldiers to commit genocide.
It isn't simply following orders, or doing their duty-- they had to be convinced that the people they were slaughtering had deeply wronged them somehow... therefore killing them was totally justified.
It isn't sociopathy and these people aren't different from others-- it's something that everyone feels in varying degrees throughout their lives, and if they aren't self-aware, they will succumb to it.

With Islamic Extremists, the religion isn't the primary driver... the primary driver is that for decades foreign powers have been making most of the major decisions concerning the Middle East-- sanctions, wars, capitalist exploitation, etc.

Yes. Those who commit acts of large scale violence often complain of persecution, which can be real or imagined. It might be the case that your argument is considerably strengthened if we add perceptions of powerlessness and worthlessness (again real or imagined) to the picture. It's not like these three factors are unlikely bedfellows, they are often found together. The case of the Palestinians being an obvious example.

Your point about foreign powers excluding locals from the corridors of power in their own land is a strong one I feel. It's hardly a stretch to go from there to persecution, powerlessness and worthlessness is it? And it is widely accepted that a hostile foreign military occupation is one of the primary drivers of terrorism.

Except that you didn't see the Jews reacting with terrorist acts when they were in that situation.

How would you describe killing the first born male child of every household in Egypt, then?

Self-serving fable, I should think.

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


Yes. Those who commit acts of large scale violence often complain of persecution, which can be real or imagined. It might be the case that your argument is considerably strengthened if we add perceptions of powerlessness and worthlessness (again real or imagined) to the picture. It's not like these three factors are unlikely bedfellows, they are often found together. The case of the Palestinians being an obvious example.

Your point about foreign powers excluding locals from the corridors of power in their own land is a strong one I feel. It's hardly a stretch to go from there to persecution, powerlessness and worthlessness is it? And it is widely accepted that a hostile foreign military occupation is one of the primary drivers of terrorism.

Except that you didn't see the Jews reacting with terrorist acts when they were in that situation.

Only if you close your eyes very tightly and refuse to see them.

A hostile foreign military occupation, and the subjugation of a civilian population to the military rule that accompanies it - such as Israel imposes on Occupied Palestine - is rule at the point of a gun, power exercised through terrorising the occupied population through overwhelming military might and drastic often fatal consequences for anyone brave enough to resist. It's probably the single most effective and comprehensive form of terrorism going and definitely the largest scale of all terrorist operations.

And all that is without considering the ethnic cleansing or the large scale military terror operations such as the regular pulverising of Gaza that kill thousands ... But it's not part of this thread so if you want to discuss Occupied Palestine please start a thread on it.

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ORIGINAL: BoscoX

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ORIGINAL: tj444


So they are not born this way, they are "made".. so how are they any different from serial killers that kill several/dozens/hundreds of women (some also kill men, children)? they are "made" too, arent they? What about the millions of those that endured the same kind of events/things in their lives but are law abiding good people? so what does he say will prevent terrorist to become terrorists? lock little Johnny up? along with those millions that werent going to go down that path even under the same situation as Johnny?

The fact is that terrorists (& serial killers) are a very small percent of the population so you are very unlikely to run into one.. and most are very good at hiding their intentions and true nature...

Serial killers aren't usually terrorists, normally they want their crimes to remain secret for one thing

That aside, what if there were a medieval cult still existing today that teaches its members to be terroristic serial killers and demanded they practice their teachings

How would you feel about members of that cult

(Quran 8:12)