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RE: Sharia "Law" - 7/28/2006 11:20:54 PM   
abytchgoddess4u


Posts: 268
Joined: 10/17/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Goddess, and to which "race" are you referring?
There's only three; Negroid, Mongoloid, Caucasoid.


If you want to hairsplit, I can go back and change it to xenophobic bigotry.

You know what I mean.


_____________________________

"Everything in the Universe Is within you.
Ask all from yourself." Rumi

"The world will know and understand me someday. But if that day does not arrive, it does not greatly matter. I shall have opened the way for other women."
George Sand

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Sharia "Law" - 7/28/2006 11:24:46 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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Ok, we just went from "RACISM" to  "Xenophobic Bigotry."
So it's *NOT* "RACISM" now Abytchgoddes?

(in reply to abytchgoddess4u)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Sharia "Law" - 7/28/2006 11:47:13 PM   
Dauric


Posts: 254
Joined: 7/13/2006
Status: offline
Enough with the personal attacks please. I've seen enough posts from most everyone on this board to know you're all better than to flame eachother.

                            -- Just remember, ther's someone on the web saving everying you type for posterity.

As far as respecting their way of life... In theory I agree with it. When I go to write down some manner of concrete level at which one gets to smack someone upside the head with the Cluehammer* (tm), I have a problem nailing that line down.

* a sledgehammer with the word "clue" printed in raised letters on the striking-face so as to leave a lasting impression.

There is a point at which though I have an instinctual revulsion to the injustice. A kind of intestinal-knot-tying-contest that hapens every time I read about these things.

I get the same reaction to an interview of an al-queida fighter (yeah I cabn't spell.. Al Queisidilla?) who thinks of memories of his wife and daughter as "temptations of the devil, leading him away from his jihad."

But that's just my $0.02.

Dauric.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Sharia "Law" - 7/28/2006 11:50:20 PM   
DanteMalo


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Strange.While I would gladly wipe out every muslim extremist in return for a latte', I see some serious problems here.

1: Islam is exactly where christianity was 500 years ago. and it was founded roughly 500 years after the foundation of christianity.
Islam, is it in it's savage state, (religious cultures mature. look at "us") and that same savagery can be found in the inquisition.
Christianity pretty much destroyed anyone who got in it's way, and took over most of the developed world, and  now that our country, and much of our culture was founded on that bloodshed, I see not a single christian admitting this historical fact. that's because now that "we" (I say "we" because like it or not, most here are christian, by default, in their thinking, and culture) have the world o a leash, we don't want to admit the killing and horrible violence that was a part of the foundation of the united states power base. but hey, we're BETTER, right? As christianity aged it became more mellower.  with the exception of the Christian fundamentalists who are really pushing this war, (100 innocent iraqis killed per day)  and are doing so for religious reasons. many have died on behalf of the united state's current religious convictions. hm... killing for a religious idea.... where have I heard that recently?
2: those "goat ropers" as you call them (and you make no distiniction between and Iranian, and any other Arab) are responsible for much of your language, some of your technology, and some of those "goat ropers" are now serving in the U.S. military, proctecting your fat ass here at home while you use that freedom to say stupid things. Hey, it's a free country, right?

3: for someone in our BDSM community to say something so stupid makes me ashamed. however, to the initial poster I must say something:
cultures trying to pass off such a thing as a "religious law", and cultures who participate in such things for very long usually are visited by a catastrophic event. call it fate, god, or what have you. christianity has it's own catastrophies. Plague, among other things are visited upon those who are cruel. As to the completely obvious savagery of the people in the heavily wahabist, and Shite, areas near Iran and iraq, look at the condition they are in now. like early christians ( and some christians now) they are fucked. screwed. no money, no work, no decent hospitals, I mean really and truly fucked. they are already paying for their beliefs, and I think it will continue. It was the direct involvement of the US government, in Installing the Shah, and his secret police the Savak, who freely kidnapped young girls off the streets, and often killed people by the hundreds, that led to the rise of the Ayatollahs in the first place.
Do I make excuses for them? ( when I say "them" unlike you, I mean those who practice ritualistic killing and violence in the name of "god") hell no. I hope they all die real soon. Do I face the reality of our complicity in it? I have to. to do otherwise is to be ignorant of out own part in this, and that, is exactly what makes this kind of treament of women so horrific. ignorance.
Let's try to do better.

(in reply to corsetgirl)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Sharia "Law" - 7/28/2006 11:57:44 PM   
abytchgoddess4u


Posts: 268
Joined: 10/17/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Ok, we just went from "RACISM" to  "Xenophobic Bigotry."
So it's *NOT* "RACISM" now Abytchgoddes?


If you want too feel that you've somehow "won", go right ahead.


_____________________________

"Everything in the Universe Is within you.
Ask all from yourself." Rumi

"The world will know and understand me someday. But if that day does not arrive, it does not greatly matter. I shall have opened the way for other women."
George Sand

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Sharia "Law" - 7/29/2006 12:26:27 AM   
Dauric


Posts: 254
Joined: 7/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DanteMalo

Strange.While I would gladly wipe out every muslim extremist in return for a latte', I see some serious problems here.

<snip>



I completely agree on all counts. The problem is we know what Christianity has done in it's 1,000 years of savage times, so can we protect ourselves from that wanton destructive spread from getting to us (again).

In my more irrational moments I think that the whole middle east needs to be cordoned off. Let them resolve their problems amongst themselves for a while. They don't want the temptations of the west , fine, they don't get our aid or our money either ( We should have had our electric cars by now damnit! ). When their culture can act like grownups it can eat at the big-people's table again.

My $0.02

Dauric.

(in reply to DanteMalo)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Sharia "Law" - 7/29/2006 1:14:04 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Iron Bear, I just looked at your profile and you're in Aus.
We do things a little differently here in the U.S.
Why did you guys put up with *your* government taking your guns away? That's like being dictated to be a govt.
Our govt. is "By the People" which means we own and run the govt and they don't dictate to us although with Bush and Big Business entrenched in Washington now that's debatable!


Don't try that we are better than you crap son, you'd never have made it in any unit I ran.. We do have problems in that our PM is in Bushes hip pocket and that is something we'll deal with soon anyway... I and many other vets  and others who have access to the reality of what wenton with Howard manipulating a State government and using agents to precipitate a mass killing in order to strip guns from civilians will continue to have serious changes made to the Federal Government.. But that lad is a whole different story and not thgis tyhread.. My comments were simply refering to that I have seen multinational communities work well and I've seen the ones whoch dont... Your own comments to the effect that you want people of different races to leave the US and return to where they came from is just voicing the opinions of the radical right which and others both in and outside Government agencies have been fighting for years and will continue to fight... What happens in the US is up to the US to work out but I'll always been kept appraised as long as I have the clearences to read the intell..


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Sharia "Law" - 7/29/2006 1:14:19 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
In answer to the original post and to put some balance and perspective into the discussion:

There is no cultural justification for those sort of acts. They're obviously disgusting beyond belief. However, they are an example of the ugly side of the Muslim world. We in the Christian world also have an ugly side to the way we run our societies. For example, yesterday, a UK priest was convicted of the rape of an 11 year old boy and 35 counts of child abuse - by no means an isolated incident. 

To be able to pass judgement and condemn other cultures we need to have our own house in order first.

Regards

(in reply to Dauric)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Sharia "Law" - 7/29/2006 3:43:31 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DanteMalo

Strange.While I would gladly wipe out every muslim extremist in return for a latte', I see some serious problems here.

1: Islam is exactly where christianity was 500 years ago. and it was founded roughly 500 years after the foundation of christianity.
Islam, is it in it's savage state, (religious cultures mature. look at "us") and that same savagery can be found in the inquisition.

Excellent point.

Christianity pretty much destroyed anyone who got in it's way, and took over most of the developed world, and  now that our country, and much of our culture was founded on that bloodshed, I see not a single christian admitting this historical fact. that's because now that "we" (I say "we" because like it or not, most here are christian, by default, in their thinking, and culture) have the world o a leash, we don't want to admit the killing and horrible violence that was a part of the foundation of the united states power base. but hey, we're BETTER, right? As christianity aged it became more mellower.  with the exception of the Christian fundamentalists who are really pushing this war, (100 innocent iraqis killed per day)  and are doing so for religious reasons. many have died on behalf of the united state's current religious convictions. hm... killing for a religious idea.... where have I heard that recently?

If 100 Iraqis are dying each day, it's their own people killing 99% of them.

2: those "goat ropers" as you call them (and you make no distiniction between and Iranian, and any other Arab) are responsible for much of your language, some of your technology, and some of those "goat ropers" are now serving in the U.S. military, proctecting your fat ass here at home while you use that freedom to say stupid things. Hey, it's a free country, right?

3: for someone in our BDSM community to say something so stupid makes me ashamed. however, to the initial poster I must say something:
cultures trying to pass off such a thing as a "religious law", and cultures who participate in such things for very long usually are visited by a catastrophic event. call it fate, god, or what have you. christianity has it's own catastrophies. Plague, among other things are visited upon those who are cruel. As to the completely obvious savagery of the people in the heavily wahabist, and Shite, areas near Iran and iraq, look at the condition they are in now. like early christians ( and some christians now) they are fucked. screwed. no money, no work, no decent hospitals, I mean really and truly fucked. they are already paying for their beliefs, and I think it will continue. It was the direct involvement of the US government, in Installing the Shah, and his secret police the Savak, who freely kidnapped young girls off the streets, and often killed people by the hundreds, that led to the rise of the Ayatollahs in the first place.

It got the Ayatollahs rolling, but America certainly isn't responsible for the origins of Islamic extremism. Just pointing that out.

Do I make excuses for them? ( when I say "them" unlike you, I mean those who practice ritualistic killing and violence in the name of "god") hell no. I hope they all die real soon. Do I face the reality of our complicity in it? I have to. to do otherwise is to be ignorant of out own part in this, and that, is exactly what makes this kind of treament of women so horrific. ignorance.
Let's try to do better.



_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to DanteMalo)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Sharia "Law" - 7/29/2006 3:53:33 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

If these women don't get educated and stand up for themselves they will never stop suffering and it will continue forever.

Of course thats why their religion doesn't want them educated, because they would realise that they are more then just breeding fodder. They would actually want to be treated like human beings with rights. Keep them ignorant and you can keep them under control. Kind of like another religion that I know that isn't so far off in belief as Islam.



In this context, the men are as much in need of education as the women.  If you use the religious context, the men are as ignorant as the women and are controlled in the same way. The men do what they do for the same reasons that the women suffer what they do.

agirl

(in reply to Lashra)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Sharia "Law" - 7/29/2006 4:02:06 AM   
Level


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Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

If these women don't get educated and stand up for themselves they will never stop suffering and it will continue forever.

Of course thats why their religion doesn't want them educated, because they would realise that they are more then just breeding fodder. They would actually want to be treated like human beings with rights. Keep them ignorant and you can keep them under control. Kind of like another religion that I know that isn't so far off in belief as Islam.



In this context, the men are as much in need of education as the women.  If you use the religious context, the men are as ignorant as the women and are controlled in the same way. The men do what they do for the same reasons that the women suffer what they do.

agirl



Exactly, agirl. If you have a bike with two flat tires, fix them both.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Sharia "Law" - 7/29/2006 4:44:53 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
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Lashra,

It is not necessarily the case that Islam breeds barbaric acts and suppression of women's rights.

The Islamic world is vast. Granted, some Islamic countries appear to be backward but a good argument could be put together claiming this is a result of poverty and the subsequent lack of education rather than Islam.

Many of the Middle East nations are far more worried about fundamentalism than we are because it is more of a threat to their way of life. If you ever spend time around the gulf region and take the time to chat with the Jordanians, Lebanese, Palestinians, Egyptians etc who work there you'll find they just want to live their lives and afford as much respect to others as any of us. Also, the women are more westernised than westerners - every one of them looks like they've spent 3 days in the mirror - outwardly they are immaculate and decked out head to toe in the latest fashion labels. They go on the same shopping sprees, go to watch films etc. Incidentally, I watched the film Munich in a cinema full of Arabs and there was no evident anti-Israeli sentiment - they laughed along when the Israeli characters were joking. If you chat with these people they don't hate Israel and they don't hate the US - they just don't agree with their foreign policies. Ultimately, the majority of those in the Islamic world are no more fundamentalist than the rest of us.

Regards

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Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Sharia "Law" - 7/29/2006 5:16:30 AM   
agirl


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I find it MORE unsettling that people with education, access to a wealth of information and freedom of thought, commit barbaric acts against others, than I do by people that are *indoctrinated* because of a lack of it.

Anything done in the name of a god *bothers* me...good or bad.

I don't want the person in charge of my world bowing to some *higher being* that I don't recognise or believe exists.. ..I'm not happy that *God* is whispering in Blair's ear. It irks me, frankly.

agirl



(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Sharia "Law" - 7/29/2006 5:35:41 AM   
IronBear


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From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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Fast Reply NOT to any specic Person

It is my belief that if we take a good look all the cultures, we will be able to fine things which we not only agree but actively oppose. The key is use hear is both the volume of people who oppose and the strength of their opposition.. Now before we go one the war path we also need to learn a great deal about the cultures and the specific customs we oppose so we have some perspective. It would be wrong to attempt the high moral ground and attack some  custom or other because we see it through either Western Standards or based on Judeo-Christian Morals. Such views may be fie for those where they reside or where they believe themselves. However wars have been fought because one party didn’t like the beliefs or views of another and because they  decided that if the other party had differing beliefs or ideas they must be converted by the sword.. (I some how seem to think a couple or so crusades were started by this and BTW the Vatican has never officially called off the Papal Permission to have a crusade)

  I guess most of us can agree that some customs from various countries and cultures are not nice and even pretty well disgusting or down right unacceptable. I further feel that those folks who migrate to your country should be encourages to integrate into their new society without loosing their customs. Not the point is, if there are customs practiced the their old country but are unacceptable in their new one, they need to either give up those unacceptable practices or return to their country of origin.. This is harder for the old folk but the youngsters should be taught what is acceptable..

  What I find unacceptable is the views that because let’s say the Saudies have a custom of using their right pinkie to pick their noses at the table and fart when finished eating (example only). There is no reason to try to start some form of cultural jihad about it. Their country and their rules.. It would be as bad as Egypt declaring a jihad on the US because the find men wearing sexually exciting tights, upper body enhancement and helmets appear to try committing sodomy on each other whilst murdering an inflated bladder of a pig…. 

  The point is that if you really want to effect changes somewhere other in you own local, you need to clean up your own mess first and then over years demonstrate your beliefs by living them.. To effect definitive changes in the customs of another culture, the changes must come from within via example and education, not by some one (another country) kicking in the front door with a grenade I one hand and a machine gun in another.


< Message edited by IronBear -- 7/29/2006 5:36:54 AM >


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Sharia "Law" - 7/29/2006 6:15:18 AM   
philosophy


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i'm no christian...(really, i'm really not).....but even the bible has something to say about this......let he who is without sin cast the first stone

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RE: Sharia "Law" - 7/29/2006 6:33:44 AM   
Moloch


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*gets baptised and throws a rock at philosophy's head*
Gotta love Catholocism.

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Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Sharia "Law" - 7/29/2006 7:19:54 AM   
philosophy


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"*gets baptised and throws a rock at philosophy's head*
Gotta love Catholocism."

lol

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Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Sharia "Law" - 7/29/2006 7:40:11 AM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
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From: Sacramento
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The ME was actually a pretty nice place in the 1950s but slowly turned backward after we overthrew moderate democratic leaders and installed brutal dictators.

People used to go to Lebanon because it was decadent...

As for Christianity, anyone who cannot see the barbarism committed in the name of Christianity in this and every prior century just isn't paying attention.

The "problem" with the ME is that Arabs, unlike idiotic Americans, are educated enough to see that WE have been running their countries for the last fifty years through puppets.  They know they only way to rid themselves of puppets is to for US to leave them the fuck alone.  Since they clearly don't have the might to do that conventionally, doing it unconventionally is the only avenue open to them.  We can't let them do that because our economies are based on stealing their oil and only allowing profit taking by US companies.

So, until we don't need the oil, they are going to be unreasonable and resent us stealing it and controlling their governments.  I know it is unreasonable, but it is an issue I think our founding fathers, unlike our present leaders, would have found common cause with.

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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Sharia "Law" - 7/29/2006 9:26:37 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Ok, we just went from "RACISM" to  "Xenophobic Bigotry."
So it's *NOT* "RACISM" now Abytchgoddes?


You've been called on this before popeye, so we know it isn't just naivete on your part...

Just because there is one definition of a word, does not mean that no one can ever use any other accepted definition of the word  in any other context.

Just like 'socialism' has an accepted meaning that is not limited by one definition of 'a social', so does 'racism' have an accepted meaning that is not limited by one definion of 'a race'.

The reason that what you are trying to pull is call 'sophomoric' is that no one with more experience falls for it.


(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Sharia "Law" - 7/29/2006 9:32:02 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

In answer to the original post and to put some balance and perspective into the discussion:

There is no cultural justification for those sort of acts. They're obviously disgusting beyond belief. However, they are an example of the ugly side of the Muslim world. We in the Christian world also have an ugly side to the way we run our societies. For example, yesterday, a UK priest was convicted of the rape of an 11 year old boy and 35 counts of child abuse - by no means an isolated incident. 

To be able to pass judgement and condemn other cultures we need to have our own house in order first.

Regards


That has to be one of the worst pieces of moral relativism I've ever seen. 
No one should condemn an atrocity unless every single person in their country is blameless?




< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 7/29/2006 9:34:26 AM >

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 80
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