Sharia "Law"

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LadyEllen -> Sharia "Law" (7/27/2006 2:30:16 PM)
Hi All Apologies to our US viewers but I'm sure you'll have a few things to say even if you didnt see! Did anyone else watch the BBC2 programme tonight about the young Iranian girl that was hanged for breach of the chastity law under sharia? Her original "offence" was being seen in a car with her male cousin - for this she received a whipping. Following that, she was sexually abused by the religious police men as well as raped. She was then arrested and tried as a single woman for having sex (the rape) and whipped again. The same happened again, since the police now knew she was an easy target. The final time (the fourth time) she was tried for being a "harlot" under a petition raised by her neighbours, (but which was signed only by a few police men), she was sentenced to death. In every case, the males involved were either let off completely, or sentenced to a far lesser punishment. Officially under sharia, she should have been stoned to death, but in modern Iran they have a new take on it. The night before, a HIAB truck (with a crane on it), is driven into the neighbourhood. The next morning, with a crowd of onlookers taking pictures and having fun, the condemned is slowly drawn off their feet, dangling from a rope around their neck. Slow, shameful, disgusting. sharia "law" is enforced in various parts of the Islamic world; although according to those I have asked about it, its not part of Islam, it seems to be some sort of custom and practice that has become attached to it. All in all in my opinion, sharia is not some valid and valuable practice that is requisite to Islam, neither is it the case that we infidels should not interfere with it as a cultural aspect on which we have no right to comment. sharia in my experience of it, seems to be nothing more than a cruel regime designed for one thing only - to promote the interests of men as gods through the negation of women as beasts, and amongst men to promote the interests of more powerful men against those of the less influential. It is not godly and worse, it isnt even to do with right, wrong or justice. It is a system of justification for the breach of human rights - and on that, every human has the right to comment. Okay, our western system of equality before the law, no arrest without charge, no conviction without evidence and sentences to fit the crime, provide deterrent and rehabilitate where possible, is not perfect. sharia meanwhile means that one can walk in the city centre alone after dark and never have any worry of attack or robbery in many Islamic countries. But heck, I'd sooner have our system than sharia, even if it does mean some places at some times are not so safe. Why shouldnt I drive a car? Why shouldnt I go out of the house on my own? Why should I have to have my every move and intent scrutinised for approval by some man? Why should I have to cover up (apart from being ugly!)? Why should my testimony and my will be second best to those of a male? Why should my rights be second best to his either? I dont want this to turn into an anti-Islam or anti-Iranian rant, but would be interested in others' views - especially anyone that can argue from an evidential basis that sharia is a good thing - that why as well, with examples, rather than just an assertion! Thanks E

popeye1250 -> RE: Sharia "Law" (7/27/2006 2:41:43 PM)
I really don't care what those goat ropers do in their miserable countries. I think "islam" should be OUTLAWED in Western Countries and every single one of them deported. MY opinion so don't be flaming me. "East is East and West is West and ne-er the 'twain shall meet."

LadyEllen -> RE: Sharia "Law" (7/27/2006 2:51:04 PM)
"goat ropers" - crikey did I laugh at that one LOL!? Very original! I dont mind people calling me or anyone else names - though I do insist on originality and humour! I didnt intend the discussion to be restricted to whether sharia is good/bad for those who practice it, but whether as a system of "law" it is a good/bad thing. But thanks for your reply and for that nomenclature! E

popeye1250 -> RE: Sharia "Law" (7/27/2006 2:58:11 PM)
Lady, of course it's a bad thing! Those people are savages! Look up "Brehon Law" sometime.

IronBear -> RE: Sharia "Law" (7/27/2006 3:02:32 PM)
Strange what some customs are. In one country it is illegal for a woman to marry whilst a virgin (I'm applying for the job if Virgin taker there) In a couple of South American Coutries, a man can legally execute his wife foe adultery and yet is free to bonk any woman he chooses.. Since the laws and incident that the OP quoted happened within their laws, the only comment I can offer is that when in Rome etc and thus if you feel that you may be in breach of local laws just don't go there...

Lashra -> RE: Sharia "Law" (7/27/2006 3:54:51 PM)
Personally I think the muslim women need to take up arms and get rid of their insane males. If they don't they will always be considered useless breeding fodder by them. This my opinion and don't bother trying to change it. ~Lashra

IronBear -> RE: Sharia "Law" (7/27/2006 4:12:51 PM)
herein lays the problem. Whgilst I can agree with this at times I also believe that all cultures shlould be able to live their lives accxording to their cultures provided thatthey don't try to interfere with others who are not of their cultures.. If the majority Lashra (grins g'day lass), follow your view on this howw can we stop them from working against others who do not conform with their beliefs? Next it could be the Gorean Lifstylers or the Pagans. The latter is under attack by the Right Wing Christian Extreemests both in the US and Australia via the Political areas in which they hold sway.... Such things can and will bring open conflict to the streets. I'm not saying we shouldn't say anything but there are limits to which we should voice our opinions..

fullofgrace -> RE: Sharia "Law" (7/27/2006 5:19:09 PM)
it's shriya, not sharia, law. sorry, i'm an english major who's studied too many languages with scripts other than roman, which makes me a stickler for proper spelling/transliteration, and a religion major who's studied a bit of islamic war ethics...so...i'm being picky ;) that said, islam as a religion is not and was not originally particularly demeaning or violent towards women. the customs (things like shriya law) are. granted, the WHOLE of shriya law is not just based around women and their subjugation. i think like any religion it's unfair of westerners who are either presumed christian, jewish, atheist, or agnostic to decide that people should have to abandon their entire religion or culture, but yes, just as with the whole head scarf issue in britain, there are certain customs - like stoning - that simply cannot be tolerated. this isn't to say that islam should not be allowed to encourage women to cover their heads, imho. but stoning them for not is what we need to be worrying about.

corsetgirl -> RE: Sharia "Law" (7/27/2006 5:23:56 PM)
I heard that Saddam Hussein stated if he got the death penalty, he requested the firing squad. Wouldn't it be justice to have every female victim under his regime learn to practice firing the rifles so they can shoot him in the end?

Level -> RE: Sharia "Law" (7/27/2006 5:29:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fullofgrace it's shriya, not sharia, law. sorry, i'm an english major who's studied too many languages with scripts other than roman, which makes me a stickler for proper spelling/transliteration, and a religion major who's studied a bit of islamic war ethics...so...i'm being picky ;) that said, islam as a religion is not and was not originally particularly demeaning or violent towards women. the customs (things like shriya law) are. granted, the WHOLE of shriya law is not just based around women and their subjugation. i think like any religion it's unfair of westerners who are either presumed christian, jewish, atheist, or agnostic to decide that people should have to abandon their entire religion or culture, but yes, just as with the whole head scarf issue in britain, there are certain customs - like stoning - that simply cannot be tolerated. this isn't to say that islam should not be allowed to encourage women to cover their heads, imho. but stoning them for not is what we need to be worrying about. I've never heard it called "shirya". But I'm no expert [X(].

IronBear -> RE: Sharia "Law" (7/27/2006 5:36:12 PM)
Hang, Draw and Quarter the bastard!

MrDiscipline44 -> RE: Sharia "Law" (7/27/2006 5:44:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: corsetgirl I heard that Saddam Hussein stated if he got the death penalty, he requested the firing squad. Wouldn't it be justice to have every female victim under his regime learn to practice firing the rifles so they can shoot him in the end? No, thats not justice. Thats just a petty vengeful attitude.

corsetgirl -> RE: Sharia "Law" (7/27/2006 8:19:50 PM)
To MD44: Hmmm....gosh, been flamed by you and then you have no profile...gotta love some people who just spout their opinions and hide! I have studied the Sharia law and while in some instances, it does work for the criminal system; however, in this case, the person was victimized repeatedly and then put to death. Now that is petty and vengeful but you are accusing me of feeling that way against a monster has been in power for 30 years and has killed and tortured his people. I suppose you would also believe in honor killings, too.

Alumbrado -> RE: Sharia "Law" (7/27/2006 8:24:25 PM)
A custom that involves clothing, food, mode of transportation, is one thing.... Tearing children in half after brutalizing them isn't a custom, it is hiding behind excuses to commit real atrocities.

SusanofO -> RE: Sharia "Law" (7/27/2006 9:10:27 PM)
Well, if it is about Islam, then it is about a perverted version of it. Hearing about this just makes me thankful I live in the United States. This kind of treatment being considered acceptable toward half of their population (the female half) is one of the things (so he claimed) that finally pushed Bush to attack Afghanistan; the Taliban had been doing similar things (and stil does) there for many years. In Pakistan it happens more often than most in the Western world might want to think it does as well (from what I have read). - Susan

MrDiscipline44 -> RE: Sharia "Law" (7/27/2006 9:19:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: corsetgirl To MD44: Hmmm....gosh, been flamed by you and then you have no profile...gotta love some people who just spout their opinions and hide! Well, for one thing I didn't "flame" you. Flaming you would be me telling you that you made a stupid remark that shows no more intelligence then God gave a gnat. Thats not what I did. I simply called the actions you stated for what they were, petty and vengeful. quote: I have studied the Sharia law and while in some instances, it does work for the criminal system; however, in this case, the person was victimized repeatedly and then put to death. Now that is petty and vengeful but you are accusing me of feeling that way against a monster has been in power for 30 years and has killed and tortured his people. I suppose you would also believe in honor killings, too. Again, I was just calling the actions you cited what they were. It wasn't a description of you. If you took it that way, that your own problem. Besides, the OP doesn't say that this "crime" happened in Iraq or during Husseins rein in power. So you bringing Hussein up is your own bid at being an attention whore. So don't get your panties in a knot, ok sweetheart?

corsetgirl -> RE: Sharia "Law" (7/27/2006 9:31:16 PM)
I am not being the attention whore, here. What the OP is saying that she wants to do something about the injustices against some women in the Muslim religions. Some of these countries have honor killings in which if a women even dates a guy who is not part of their religion, a male relative has the right to kill her..... I was also trying to have just a little sarcastic humor...yeah, it might have been petty humor but I think some people would agree with me....but there is always someone who takes it the wrong way...now who has their panties in a bunch?! But that's okay you just go about your business and I will go about mine.....

fullofgrace -> RE: Sharia "Law" (7/27/2006 9:39:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level quote: ORIGINAL: fullofgrace it's shriya, not sharia, law. sorry, i'm an english major who's studied too many languages with scripts other than roman, which makes me a stickler for proper spelling/transliteration, and a religion major who's studied a bit of islamic war ethics...so...i'm being picky ;) that said, islam as a religion is not and was not originally particularly demeaning or violent towards women. the customs (things like shriya law) are. granted, the WHOLE of shriya law is not just based around women and their subjugation. i think like any religion it's unfair of westerners who are either presumed christian, jewish, atheist, or agnostic to decide that people should have to abandon their entire religion or culture, but yes, just as with the whole head scarf issue in britain, there are certain customs - like stoning - that simply cannot be tolerated. this isn't to say that islam should not be allowed to encourage women to cover their heads, imho. but stoning them for not is what we need to be worrying about. I've never heard it called "shirya". But I'm no expert [X(]. neither am i, i was just having flashbacks from "islam and war" and a couple of other sources i was pretty sure used "shriya" - but it's appearing that sites use sharia? maybe i'm totally thinking of something different. :) is wrong, and tired, often eta: now this is going to be bugging the hell out of me until i figure out where i got "shriya" from. ;)

MrDiscipline44 -> RE: Sharia "Law" (7/27/2006 9:42:20 PM)
Always someone that wants to get upset because they made an asinine statement and got called on it. Alright then, corsetgirl, you can scamper out the back way since you seem to need to.

corsetgirl -> RE: Sharia "Law" (7/27/2006 9:46:02 PM)
No, I don't need to scamper out the back door...I am here....I am visible...and you have no profile...where is your profile? Hmmmm?

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