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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

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ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

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the graphics I provided are done by phd's

So you say.

And if it were as simple as that, PhDs would never disagree, instead of disagreeing constantly.

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ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire

All his links are total pish - Just saying - you should probably know better Vincent

Dalek Cunt? oh ffs took me ages to do this one

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ORIGINAL: blnymph

There is an obvious confusion between brain activities and attempted mind-reading

Since many neurons are permanently busy with involuntary processes from secretory glands to keeping control of muscular movement and a lot more nobody can determine with any certainty what is happening at a brain' surface, let alone deeper inside, at a peculiar moment - any of these pictures only show that something is happening, but not what is happening.

Pseudo-science for simple minds.
.´

yes 'very' simple minds indeed

hint: it really helps to comprehend what you are talking about before running for a goal.

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne
hint: it really helps to comprehend what you are talking about before running for a goal.

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

Yeah, that's fine and it makes my point that only the cerebral cortices were visible in your original images. I can see the mid-brain bits in this one. Unfortunately, it is not a scan from Newberg's work, and you dodged my questions. I thought you were an expert on brain imaging and could maybe help me understand your evidence. Guess you don't know what you are talking about, nor do you know the limitations of Newberg's work. Ahh, too bad.

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

Yeah, that's fine and it makes my point that only the cerebral cortices were visible in your original images. I can see the mid-brain bits in this one. Unfortunately, it is not a scan from Newberg's work, and you dodged my questions. I thought you were an expert on brain imaging and could maybe help me understand your evidence. Guess you don't know what you are talking about, nor do you know the limitations of Newberg's work. Ahh, too bad.

WTG Vince that was a teaching aid used to demonstrate the color coding, an artists concept, not an actual scan.

I dodged no questions, I established the most logical and reasonable starting point to teach you want you asked to be taught, ie you dont jump into the principles of polynomials or quadratic equations or matrices before you understand the principles how to add and subtract.

That said do you now understand what the test is showing, and that meditation shows greater brain use/activity or do you want to stick with there is no difference?

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Yep its true! Seems atheists are missing out on one of lifes greatest treasures.

https://books.google.com/books?id=U1BDCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA81&lpg=PA81&dq=Andrew+Newberg+is+a+neuroscientist+at+Thomas+Jefferson+University+whose+field+of+study+is+neurotheology+religion&source=bl&ots=LLRQh8YxWz&sig=hyOgsrVebkWw8YzOpFNe-CkSkg0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjtw7DP4JHVAhVK7yYKHSpACAUQ6AEIUjAI#v=onepage&q=Andrew%20Newberg&f=false

Hello, RO.

I am a little bit confused by some of the things you presented here and I hope you will be able to unravel my concerns.

When I clicked on the link above I was taken to a page on Google Books and presented with a preview of a book called The Faith Link written by Max Fleury MD. I don't understand what this has to do with Andrew Newberg, the researcher at the heart of your thread, although I do see Newberg's name in the link.

Please explain the connection between Newberg and Dr. Fleury.


I searched Newberg's biography and he has certainly been active in fMRI studies. He seems to have all the credentials of a neuroscientist in good standing. He has written six books according to the Wiki biography. I read that Newberg described the possible neurophysiological mechanisms associated with religious and spiritual experiences.[3] His initial research included the use of functional brain imaging to study Buddhist meditators[4] and Franciscan nuns in prayer.[5] This work was eventually published in three books, The Mystical Mind, Why God Won’t Go Away, and Why We Believe What We Believe.

SKIP

In the last listed book Why We Believe What We Believe, co-authored with Mark Robert Waldman (Executive MBA Faculty, Loyola Marymount University) describes the relationship between the brain and beliefs and also describes brain imaging studies of an atheist and individuals speaking in tongues (or glossolalia).

"of an atheist" suggests to me only one atheist.

Please explain how studies with only one atheist justifies your gloating OP headline.

You also showed us this scan of the brain before and after(?) meditation and informed us it demonstrated that the brain religious folk used more of their brain than do atheists.



Honestly, I don't see a major difference between the two images. Furthermore, these images only show the cerebral cortices apparently. Are the Limbic System, thalamus, cerebellum, and amygdala also demonstrated there?

Please explain how these images support your conclusion that more of the brain is used in meditation.

Also from the Wiki article there is some criticism of Newberg's conclusions (and yours I think)

Newberg’s research has been criticized from two main perspectives.[non sequitur] From the religious perspective, concerns have been raised that the study of practices such as meditation does not necessarily extrapolate to the broader array of religious and spiritual phenomena.[3] However, Newberg tends to agree with this concern and has argued that future studies are needed to elucidate the more complex elements of religious and spiritual phenomena. Newberg has maintained that science and brain imaging studies are only tools to evaluate the brain during such experiences but do not necessarily negate such experiences. Newberg has argued that the integration of science and religion is critical for a better understanding of how human beings think and behave in a global context.

How do these criticisms change your OP proposition?

Thanks for helping me understand this complicated issue.

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ok so if you in fact understand the color scheme and you in fact understand why we are looking at the spect images chosen then what is the point of your questions, now that we understand what it shows us?

It changes nothing, if you know that your motor draws more power to do work in one direction and less power in regen, then it goes without saying the magnetic field expands, in the brain more blood is required, the spect images precisely show this effect, anyone can critisize anything with meaningless jabs at thin air, just look at the shit the whore posts.

Nothing they claim changes my position that religious use more of their brain than atheists do, why would you think differently unless you flat out want to deny the results of the scan? Of course now that you said that you understand the color code which carries the presumption you understand how it is used, you realize you just contradicted your "I dont see a difference" that you said earlier.

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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ok so if you in fact understand the color scheme and you in fact understand why we are looking at the spect images chosen then what is the point of your questions, now that we understand what it shows us?

It changes nothing, if you know that your motor draws more power to do work in one direction and less power in regen, then it goes without saying the magnetic field expands, in the brain more blood is required, the spect images precisely show this effect, anyone can critisize anything with meaningless jabs at thin air, just look at the shit the whore posts.

Nothing they claim changes my position that religious use more of their brain than atheists do, why would you think differently unless you flat out want to deny the results of the scan? Of course now that you said that you understand the color code which carries the presumption you understand how it is used, you realize you just contradicted your "I dont see a difference" that you said earlier.

Except for your very last dogmatic assertion you are evading my questions and blaming me for your evasion, which is standard operating procedure around here.

I looked at both scans and I see the variations in colors and I know what the colors mean. What I fail to see is any quantitative expression of the differences that can lead to the conclusion that the meditative brain is more active than the base line. And if it is. . . . how does that square with the claim of Eastern phosophies that meditation quiets the brain and makes it more receptive to enlightenment?

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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ok so if you in fact understand the color scheme and you in fact understand why we are looking at the spect images chosen then what is the point of your questions, now that we understand what it shows us?

It changes nothing, if you know that your motor draws more power to do work in one direction and less power in regen, then it goes without saying the magnetic field expands, in the brain more blood is required, the spect images precisely show this effect, anyone can critisize anything with meaningless jabs at thin air, just look at the shit the whore posts.

Nothing they claim changes my position that religious use more of their brain than atheists do, why would you think differently unless you flat out want to deny the results of the scan? Of course now that you said that you understand the color code which carries the presumption you understand how it is used, you realize you just contradicted your "I dont see a difference" that you said earlier.

Except for your very last dogmatic assertion you are evading my questions and blaming me for your evasion, which is standard operating procedure around here.

I looked at both scans and I see the variations in colors and I know what the colors mean. What I fail to see is any quantitative expression of the differences that can lead to the conclusion that the meditative brain is more active than the base line. And if it is. . . . how does that square with the claim of Eastern phosophies that meditation quiets the brain and makes it more receptive to enlightenment?

'quieting' the brain is a figure of speech your subconscience can be extremely active while your conscious brain is none-the-wiser.

You need to clarify what you are looking for instead of using buzz words without describing how 'you' are using them if you want a conversation. I see no correlation, unless you are asking me to explain the meaning of the colors, which is what you appear to covertly be doing.

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ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

FR
You know, it occurs to me that the reason for such a result is really simple. People who do not believe in God tend to ask more questions than those who do. And that uses more brain. When you stop trying to use scientific research to make yourself look superior, the truth comes out. You know, applying the scientific process, being rational....

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

for most people yep the ass.

quieting the brain has nothing to do with queting the subconscious, only conscious distractions are quieted.


I can’t tell you how often I am asked this question. And the answer is always the same. The real goal of meditation is not to quiet your mind.

http://aboutmeditation.com/quiet-your-mind/


I am still trying to figger out what your point is and where you are trying to go with this and quantitative expression. All I see is non sequitur, and if you cant give us some kind of description how you are trying to relate this to these scans I will just write it all off as throwing shit at the wall