no more D/s?

no more D/s? (Full Version)

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songofeire -> no more D/s? (7/27/2006 10:43:12 PM)
Reading these forums makes me wonder... Are there no submissive hearts out there that beat a bit faster at the thought of someone actually being in control? And using that control to please himself, and not you? For your desires to be incidental? Doesn't anyone really want to freakin' submit any more? And are there no more Dominants out there who have a clue at all as to what it means to be Dominant? So many I have spoken with, speak impassionedly of their desire to please the woman... WHAT???? I finally asked one of them, "What if what she wants is for you not to ask what she wants, and just to use her to please yourself? Would you have a clue what to do then?" Rosemary (who, until very recently, was really gettin' discouraged)

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: no more D/s? (7/27/2006 11:41:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: songofeire I finally asked one of them, "What if what she wants is for you not to ask what she wants, and just to use her to please yourself? Would you have a clue what to do then?" Rosemary (who, until very recently, was really gettin' discouraged) I'm not sure how you are reconciling "Use me like I want to be used without me giving you information" is being equated to "having a submissive heart for your pleasure to be incidental?" Relationships take communication. You are serving the dom by giving them information and them getting to know you. Expecting the dom to just do what he wants without any communication is fairly unrealistic. What if they do what they want and the next day you go around telling everyone that they were abusive and heartless? It happens all the time. If you want just a random guy to come over and use you without regard to anything, go to craigslist and you'll get tons of people willing to do that. Do you want a hot anonymous objectification scene or do you want a long term committed relationship as a submissive? It's possible to have both, but it seems like what you expect isn't really what you're saying you want.

popeye1250 -> RE: no more D/s? (7/28/2006 12:00:08 AM)
Song, sure, sometimes I like to tie a sub down and greedily ravish her for my own selfish wants and I really couldn't care less what she "wants" or "needs." It's all about what (I) want to do to her. If she starts to complain the gag goes right into her mouth! You know, use her like a FUCK TOY. If she didn't really care for nipple clamps, use them on her for a while. Maybe slap her tits around a bit and just fuckin' TAKE her. Be real rough with her, pull her hair and pin her head down to the bed while I'm ramming her pussy and biting her ear and pinching her nipple with my other hand. Sticking a finger up her ass while I continue to pound away at her pussy telling her how sore she's going to be tommorrow. Telling her what a little cock tease she is and now she's going to regret it. What's she going to do about it if she's tied securly? Nothing. At that point she is totally mine! And I'll make her know it! But, I also like orgasm denial and for them to beg me for an orgasm which I may or may not do for them for a while. It all depends, I like doing a lot of different things! You can't do the same things all the time, that'd be boring!

TNstepsout -> RE: no more D/s? (7/28/2006 1:29:49 AM)
Huh? I'm not quite sure what you mean. With the exception of those subs already in relationships, this is primarily a D/s dating website, which means people are getting know new potential Doms and subs. They HAVE to talk about what each other likes and doesn't like or there's no "relating" going on. Even in a D/s dynamic when the sub/slave's needs are secondary, they are STILL secondary, NOT not existant. For some Doms there is a desire to completely sublimate all of another persons wants, desires, needs, interests and sense of personal fulfillment into pleasing him/her. But personally I think that is completely unrealistic. It might work for a time, but for long term, real life living I think a relationship like that would break down. The sub would be so completely dependent on the Dom for all forms of fulfillment that s/he would feel constant pressure to fill that need and s/he would feel constantly needy and clingy. ICK! It's not my thing. Maybe it's yours, and that's fine. But there is no need to put down others because they want something different.

SexyRed -> RE: no more D/s? (7/28/2006 6:18:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Song, sure, sometimes I like to tie a sub down and greedily ravish her for my own selfish wants and I really couldn't care less what she "wants" or "needs." It's all about what (I) want to do to her. If she starts to complain the gag goes right into her mouth! You know, use her like a FUCK TOY. If she didn't really care for nipple clamps, use them on her for a while. Maybe slap her tits around a bit and just fuckin' TAKE her. Be real rough with her, pull her hair and pin her head down to the bed while I'm ramming her pussy and biting her ear and pinching her nipple with my other hand. Sticking a finger up her ass while I continue to pound away at her pussy telling her how sore she's going to be tommorrow. Telling her what a little cock tease she is and now she's going to regret it. What's she going to do about it if she's tied securly? Nothing. At that point she is totally mine! And I'll make her know it! But, I also like orgasm denial and for them to beg me for an orgasm which I may or may not do for them for a while. It all depends, I like doing a lot of different things! You can't do the same things all the time, that'd be boring! not much to add, but I liked that imagery this early morning!!!

hisforever -> RE: no more D/s? (7/28/2006 6:27:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Song, sure, sometimes I like to tie a sub down and greedily ravish her for my own selfish wants and I really couldn't care less what she "wants" or "needs." It's all about what (I) want to do to her. If she starts to complain the gag goes right into her mouth! You know, use her like a FUCK TOY. If she didn't really care for nipple clamps, use them on her for a while. Maybe slap her tits around a bit and just fuckin' TAKE her. Be real rough with her, pull her hair and pin her head down to the bed while I'm ramming her pussy and biting her ear and pinching her nipple with my other hand. Sticking a finger up her ass while I continue to pound away at her pussy telling her how sore she's going to be tommorrow. Telling her what a little cock tease she is and now she's going to regret it. What's she going to do about it if she's tied securly? Nothing. At that point she is totally mine! And I'll make her know it! But, I also like orgasm denial and for them to beg me for an orgasm which I may or may not do for them for a while. It all depends, I like doing a lot of different things! You can't do the same things all the time, that'd be boring! WOW I hope Daddys in that kind of mood when he gets home! LOL

CreativeDominant -> RE: no more D/s? (7/28/2006 6:34:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Song, sure, sometimes I like to tie a sub down and greedily ravish her for my own selfish wants and I really couldn't care less what she "wants" or "needs." It's all about what (I) want to do to her. If she starts to complain the gag goes right into her mouth! You know, use her like a FUCK TOY. If she didn't really care for nipple clamps, use them on her for a while. Maybe slap her tits around a bit and just fuckin' TAKE her. Be real rough with her, pull her hair and pin her head down to the bed while I'm ramming her pussy and biting her ear and pinching her nipple with my other hand. Sticking a finger up her ass while I continue to pound away at her pussy telling her how sore she's going to be tommorrow. Telling her what a little cock tease she is and now she's going to regret it. What's she going to do about it if she's tied securly? Nothing. At that point she is totally mine! And I'll make her know it! But, I also like orgasm denial and for them to beg me for an orgasm which I may or may not do for them for a while. It all depends, I like doing a lot of different things! You can't do the same things all the time, that'd be boring! ~grins, thumbs up~

ClassAct2006 -> RE: no more D/s? (7/28/2006 6:47:46 AM)
It's fun to find out about each other. ALso how can he know what to do that she hates unless he's asked her.... just finding out what she wants doesn't mean he then does it, at least not in my experience submitting.... BUT I'm a fairly hedonistic submissive and I like men who at least to some extent want me to be pleased. There needs to be some communication but once that's done I don't think I am asked for permission. In fact I can't think with my last boyfriend when he ever consulted or asked about anything before we did it, although I'm sure he was clever enough that there was quite a bit of initial sounding out done.

CreativeDominant -> RE: no more D/s? (7/28/2006 6:56:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: songofeire Reading these forums makes me wonder... Are there no submissive hearts out there that beat a bit faster at the thought of someone actually being in control? And using that control to please himself, and not you? For your desires to be incidental? Doesn't anyone really want to freakin' submit any more? And are there no more Dominants out there who have a clue at all as to what it means to be Dominant? So many I have spoken with, speak impassionedly of their desire to please the woman... WHAT???? I finally asked one of them, "What if what she wants is for you not to ask what she wants, and just to use her to please yourself? Would you have a clue what to do then?" Rosemary (who, until very recently, was really gettin' discouraged) Now that I'm past my fun answer: Seriously, I can see where you are trying to go...I think...with your post. I have read profiles on this site and elsewhere where the first question that came to my mind was "Where is the submission in all of this?" In communicating with the people behind the profiles I have found in some cases that the submission was very, very conditional. Too conditional in MOO and FMTO. I have found in some cases that the thinking was "submission is where someone else takes care of everything AND does wild and wonderful things to me" with little thought given to the 'yielding of control' aspect of submission. BUT, in some cases, I found people who had been burned by those dominants who 'control' everything and who 'take' but never 'give'; dominants who had never learned the 'responsibility' aspect of domination. I found people who'd been burned badly enough that they were making sure that they were not approached by this type anymore.

Indentured2Serve -> RE: no more D/s? (7/28/2006 7:18:13 AM)
quote: Are there no submissive hearts out there that beat a bit faster at the thought of someone actually being in control? And using that control to please himself, and not you? For your desires to be incidental? Doesn't anyone really want to freakin' submit any more? For submissives like me, control is the most important element of D/s. I love being under the authority of a very dominant male or female. I enjoy the humiliation that comes from being treated like a subordinate. I am happy following rules, keeping to limits, asking permission and accepting punishment for not obeying. Safety issues require that I not give up total control but the more control I have, the less I enjoy the submission. Thus, any less-than-dominant behavior on the part of the dominant reduces my enjoyment. Being overly concerned about my wants and needs reduces a person's dominance in my eyes. I don't want someone to dominate me for my sake. I want someone to dominate me because they naturally enjoy being the boss and having someone under their thumb.

Vancouver_cinful -> RE: no more D/s? (7/28/2006 7:52:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: songofeire Are there no submissive hearts out there that beat a bit faster at the thought of someone actually being in control? And using that control to please himself, and not you? For your desires to be incidental? Doesn't anyone really want to freakin' submit any more? Absolutely. One of my issues with my ex was that he didn't understand my desire for him to do this occasionally. Naturally, we're not talking about a full-time dynamic, but yes, in a trusting relationship with a dominant who knows me well, this is something I crave. I know what you mean by discouraged. It's easy enough to find folks to paddle your ass or pull your hair...but this kind of "use me for your pleasure" dynamic is not easy to find. It takes a dominant who is strong and confident, the right chemistry, and time to build a trusting bond. At least, it does for me.

Vancouver_cinful -> RE: no more D/s? (7/28/2006 7:54:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Indentured2Serve I don't want someone to dominate me for my sake. I want someone to dominate me because they naturally enjoy being the boss and having someone under their thumb. Very nicely said, and welcome to the forums.

mstrjx -> RE: no more D/s? (7/28/2006 9:19:34 AM)
I agree with much of what is said, but I do feel compelled to contribute. Dominants have a drive to dominate, submissives to submit. Agreed. Sometimes the domination is done to 'please' the submissive, but that doesn't necessarily make the acts themselves any less dominating. I don't know that I've seen ads like this here, but on another site I recall seeing several that were from slaves who wanted to be 'slaves only, no romance'. Not saying that sex wasn't to occur, but they didn't want the feelings to get so wrapped up that the dominant 'cared' (in a love sense) for the submissive. (Easier said than done, but I'll let it go for the moment.) Yet, for the first act of dominance to occur, in any setting, there has to be SOME measure of negotiation. Your desire is for a dominant to treat you solely for his pleasure and not 'seem' as if yours are a consideration? Fine. State that in your profile, or in your first interview or play session, then you're done. Negotiations can be necessary 'once 'n' done' or they can open and close repeatedly throughout a relationship, depending on a couple. But there has to be some sort of agreement, else it's akin to rape. Even a 'rape scene' that doesn't turn out to be illegal has to be negotiated first so all parties understand. If it is my understanding that I'm to dominate without recourse and further consent, I can do so (slightly at my peril, but I'm pretty careful regardless). I know how to follow that one direction. Yet, to another, I can be the most communicative, back-and-forth dom/Master there is. One just needs to know the groundrules. Simple. Jeff

amayos -> RE: no more D/s? (7/28/2006 9:44:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: songofeire Reading these forums makes me wonder... Are there no submissive hearts out there that beat a bit faster at the thought of someone actually being in control? And using that control to please himself, and not you? For your desires to be incidental? Doesn't anyone really want to freakin' submit any more? And are there no more Dominants out there who have a clue at all as to what it means to be Dominant? So many I have spoken with, speak impassionedly of their desire to please the woman... WHAT???? Indeed. The trend continues to grow as the mainstream encroaches, but there are indeed those who do understand, past the "hot rough sex" ideals. They are few in number, however. Be warned.

raiken -> RE: no more D/s? (7/28/2006 10:29:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant BUT, in some cases, I found people who had been burned by those dominants who 'control' everything and who 'take' but never 'give'; dominants who had never learned the 'responsibility' aspect of domination. I found people who'd been burned badly enough that they were making sure that they were not approached by this type anymore. i used to be one of those people when i first started to re-enter the dating scene. i had a Dom who always did the taking but never any giving. So this left my fulfillment very unbalanced and wanting toward the end, i was emotoinally neglected and unfulfilled. It became toxic for me to stay with him any longer, regardless of the love i still felt for him, and the presence of our children, or the strain on finances. He drained me emotionally, to the point where i felt invisible and unvalued. This occurred subtly and slowly over the years before i woke up and saw the need to end it. For me, while the power exchange may be unequal, as this is my desire, the respect and trust for each other as individuals, needs to be mutually exchanged. As far as conditions are concerned, i am responsible for my own happiness. It has to start within myself. i cannot become so dependent on another, that who i am becomes the adjectives they choose to give or withhold, or, that should he be taken from me for whatever reason i wouldn't have the substance, confidence or self esteem to go on, because i allowed him to always keep me down and feel helpless or less of a person without him. Being with someone who is selfish with their emotions and affections, is just not the way i wish to live, or being over shadowed with that type of fear or helplessness. i seek healthy relationships that will mutually foster growth and provide equal fulfillment and nurture. Else, why bother in the first place? When i enter into a relationship, of course it is because i have my own desires that i wish to be satisfied, if not, than what is the point? i personally look for someone who wants all of me, quirks and all. smile i don't wish to serve someone who only acknowledges a small part of who i am, for me, that would be unhealthy to have the rest of me neglected. It has to be the whole enchilada and vice versa. i look for someone who after they get to know me, enjoys my way of being, my line of integrity, and my submission, as it is complementary to their own. i am a whole person, so i seek another who is whole and not looking for their other half to make them feel complete, been there done that in my years of naivitae, for me, it didn't work, though i did give it my best shot, so that when i walked away, i had no regrets. i had to learn how to be my own best company, and love myself past my pain, it is a lifelong process. Now, the relationships i enjoy are for the most part free of past baggage, and have a real chance for longevity and happiness. i believe i have to be in control over my emotions and integrity in order to be fully satisfying and bring ultimate pleasure to the one i serve. After all, if i am not in ownership of myself first, then how can i give away to another, that which i have never owned in the first place? That is just me. smile Ah....and thank you Popeye for that stimulating scene description...yummy! *grinz ~raiken, living and learning...

EvilGeoff -> RE: no more D/s? (7/28/2006 11:38:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: songofeire And are there no more Dominants out there who have a clue at all as to what it means to be Dominant? So many I have spoken with, speak impassionedly of their desire to please the woman... Good afternoon Rosemary, Then there is the flip side of the equation.... And rather than re-invent the wheel I'll just quote one of my own essays: quote: My Dominance comes from my heart. Just as my love does. Do not confuse tenderness with weakness, and strictness with Dominance. I can be as soft and tender as a teddy bear and dominate you. It is who I am. You follow me because it is your heart's path to do so. It is, perhaps, your thought that a Dominant somehow needs to maintain their position, that they must "make" their submissives... submit. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I don't have to _do_ anything to make you submit. If I have to make you do it, whether by use of coercion, pain, strength, blackmail, you are not submitting, you are not consenting. I am forcing. There is a huge difference between a scene such as a mock rape or kidnapping, and living in a power exchange. Within the context of a scene I may threaten, cajole, use force, whatever... But in my relationship, I will not _make_ you do anything. I will not punish with anything more than disappointment and something to make you regard your error... Consent. You consent to our relationship. You submit to My will. If you do not, then perhaps it is best for you to seek someone who will play the game you seek. I don't play emotional games in my relationship. I expect submission. Submission does not mean blind obedience. Submission does not mean becoming a doormat. Submission means that you turn your will over to me. My decisions are your law. That doesn't mean you can't argue, because I have charged you with looking after my best interests. You are charged with taking care of me, meeting my needs. If I do something that you feel is against my best interest, it is your duty to ME to point that out. And my duty to you to listen. And then decide what to do. And once I make that decision it is your duty to try to make it come out right. I have a responsibility to you as well. You have turned your will over to me. I am responsible to meet your needs, to care for you. To nourish, to nurture, to help you grow stronger, wiser. So you in turn can care for me better, so I can care for you better. We are not here to play emotional games with each other. If you have needs, communicate them clearly, honestly and directly. I am not a mind reader. Do not expect me to meet them if you do not communicate them. I will, by default do as _I_ need to do. And if that is to be gentle, kind, loving, you have agreed to that by submitting to me... You are absolutely right, there are people out there claiming to be submissive, who have no clue what the word means. If it is MY desire as a dominant to give my partner joy and pleasure, that's MY freaking decision. As a submissive, she needs to shut up, lay back and enjoy it if that's what _I_ want to do. If she can't follow directions and needs to be forced, she ain't a submissive, she's playing games. And that, as Paul Harvey likes to say, "is the rest of the story". YIK, - Geoff

popeye1250 -> RE: no more D/s? (7/28/2006 12:04:26 PM)
Well said, Geoff! I do want to make sure that my sub is "pleased" but that's from an "ownership" perspective. In giving her pleasure it gives Me pleasure. I'm serving my needs first and she comes second from a D/s perspective there to be USED! That's what subs and especially Collared slaves exist to do, to please their Sirs and Masters at all times and in all ways! (I) choose how I'll tie her and for how long she'll remain tied, (I) choose what to do to her, (I )choose when she'll cum and how many times she'll cum or if I'll even let her cum! (I) tell her how to dress and what (I) want her to wear. There has to be "structure" in a D/s relationship. Of course I appreciate and want feedback and communication in a relationship but when it comes right down to it especially in a Collared slave, she exists for (((My))) pleasure!

thetammyjo -> RE: no more D/s? (7/28/2006 12:12:08 PM)
Another wonderful response from EvilGeoff. I'm movitated by me and what I want first and foremost but not only. It isn't only about me; its about at least two people (in my household, more than that). I make the decisions and I make the choices about what I do and how. I wouldn't let anyone else tell me how to be Fox's owner, not even him though his thoughts, feelings, needs and desire are of consideration for me. That's the type of person I am and it just happens to be the type of owner he matches well with. To an outsider it may at times look like one couple's way of doing Ds isn't Ds but frankly, unless I'm asked, why is that my business?

Sunshine119 -> RE: no more D/s? (7/28/2006 12:20:28 PM)
There are days that He comes home and we start to play. We might be quite deep into playing and sex, all mixed up together when 'THE LOOK" comes over his face. I look into His eyes and somehow they are different. I see the expression on his face change as well. It is at these times I know that I am about to be used as He wishes, He desires, He determines. The look tells me I am about to be used as hard as he can give it. He doesn't ask my permission, or even tell me what is coming. The look tells me. Sometimes I withstand his fury in order to meet his needs and sometimes I am carried away in the fury as well. There is no choice. I am His to use, physically, sexually, or in any kind of service He determines I will serve. Again. The question was whether or not there are dominants and submissives on these boards? Hmmmm. Stick around, you'll find them.

CreativeDominant -> RE: no more D/s? (7/28/2006 5:36:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EvilGeoff quote: ORIGINAL: songofeire And are there no more Dominants out there who have a clue at all as to what it means to be Dominant? So many I have spoken with, speak impassionedly of their desire to please the woman... Good afternoon Rosemary, Then there is the flip side of the equation.... And rather than re-invent the wheel I'll just quote one of my own essays: quote: My Dominance comes from my heart. Just as my love does. Do not confuse tenderness with weakness, and strictness with Dominance. I can be as soft and tender as a teddy bear and dominate you. It is who I am. You follow me because it is your heart's path to do so. It is, perhaps, your thought that a Dominant somehow needs to maintain their position, that they must "make" their submissives... submit. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I don't have to _do_ anything to make you submit. If I have to make you do it, whether by use of coercion, pain, strength, blackmail, you are not submitting, you are not consenting. I am forcing. There is a huge difference between a scene such as a mock rape or kidnapping, and living in a power exchange. Within the context of a scene I may threaten, cajole, use force, whatever... But in my relationship, I will not _make_ you do anything. I will not punish with anything more than disappointment and something to make you regard your error... Consent. You consent to our relationship. You submit to My will. If you do not, then perhaps it is best for you to seek someone who will play the game you seek. I don't play emotional games in my relationship. I expect submission. Submission does not mean blind obedience. Submission does not mean becoming a doormat. Submission means that you turn your will over to me. My decisions are your law. That doesn't mean you can't argue, because I have charged you with looking after my best interests. You are charged with taking care of me, meeting my needs. If I do something that you feel is against my best interest, it is your duty to ME to point that out. And my duty to you to listen. And then decide what to do. And once I make that decision it is your duty to try to make it come out right. I have a responsibility to you as well. You have turned your will over to me. I am responsible to meet your needs, to care for you. To nourish, to nurture, to help you grow stronger, wiser. So you in turn can care for me better, so I can care for you better. We are not here to play emotional games with each other. If you have needs, communicate them clearly, honestly and directly. I am not a mind reader. Do not expect me to meet them if you do not communicate them. I will, by default do as _I_ need to do. And if that is to be gentle, kind, loving, you have agreed to that by submitting to me... You are absolutely right, there are people out there claiming to be submissive, who have no clue what the word means. If it is MY desire as a dominant to give my partner joy and pleasure, that's MY freaking decision. As a submissive, she needs to shut up, lay back and enjoy it if that's what _I_ want to do. If she can't follow directions and needs to be forced, she ain't a submissive, she's playing games. And that, as Paul Harvey likes to say, "is the rest of the story". YIK, - Geoff I will agree with Popeye and thetammyjoe. After a thread on here recently that discussed whether or not a submissive had the right to point out the dominant's faults, criticize the dominant, etc.. and seeing some of the responses, I seriously considered putting up a thread on submission and what it means, from my perspective anyway. I understand that no one follows the dictionary definitions completely in WIITWD but, at the end of the day, no matter how you slice it or dice it or rice it, submission means "a yielding of control". Now, the amount of your life choices/behavior you choose to yield control of is up to you but understand that the amount helps someone...like it or not...to form a judgment (and apply said judgment in the form of a label, even if only in their own mind) as to what type of submissive you are, according to his perspective. Just as what he will and will not take responsibility for, what type of play he engages in, whether or not he expects to control everything, some things, or nothing except sex allows you to make a judgment (and apply a label...there's that dreaded word again...even if only in your own mind) as to what type of dominant he is. In my mind, if there is no yielding of control...and I mean true yielding of the nature as Geoff put it so well, then there is no submission. There might be a game...or a challenge...but there is not submission. One of my pet peeves is the type of profile that says "my submission must be earned". Though I try to think good thoughts about the statement and not pre-judge it, it bugs me every time I see it because the first thought in my head is "And just how do I do that?" The second thought is "Are you going to be one of those who tells me how I must dominate in order for you to submit? Could that not be construed as topping from the bottom?" Maybe in many cases, it isn't...but I've talked to quite a few where that is exactly the case.

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