RE: The Swedish socialist utopia (Full Version)

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bounty44 -> RE: The Swedish socialist utopia (8/22/2017 7:22:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini
Another question could be, is the current American system sustainable indefinitely?


marini, when I think of "system" and "unstainable"---I think of the cost of a bloated and over-reaching government, and my answer is no, not without some significant changes that just never seem to happen.



Marini -> RE: The Swedish socialist utopia (8/22/2017 7:23:00 PM)

I am talking about the current economic system/systems in place in the United States and most of the world.

I am talking about the status quo, not some imaginary "boogey men".

LOL, who needs "boogey men" with our current economic system and leaders?

Look around, we have enough going on in reality.




Edwird -> RE: The Swedish socialist utopia (8/22/2017 7:26:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aibo
A couple of decades ago, 1983, Sweden were slowly edging toward 'Market socialism', an idea pushed by the unions, but it was stopped by the Social democratic minister of economy Mr Kjell Olov Feldt.


This is quite interesting. Got any good references for that?

BTW, a couple of decades ago was 1997; 1983 was three and a half decades ago. Not to be nit picky.

If you could just clean up the details a bit, you might have a better future working for Rupert Murdoch. But they have low-paid editors too, so, no worries there.



quote:

(Sweden is just one example of that era where the unions tried to set the agenda for the parliament, something similar happened in the UK at about the same time - stopped by Margaret Thatcher there.)


Maggie saved the whole world from commies, which in her world, means workers.

A saviour, if ever there was.



bounty44 -> RE: The Swedish socialist utopia (8/22/2017 7:27:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

I am talking about the current economic system/systems in place in the United States and most of the world.



so the answer is no---because of the classic phrase: "eventually we'll run out of other peoples' money"



Marini -> RE: The Swedish socialist utopia (8/22/2017 7:33:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

I am talking about the current economic system/systems in place in the United States and most of the world.



so the answer is no---because of the classic phrase: "eventually we'll run out of other peoples' money"



Less government in THIS environment?
We will have a lot more government, before we have less.


With the current system of inequality, and the number of middle class free-falling, the numbers of those that are poor and disenfranchised rapidly growing?



Edwird -> RE: The Swedish socialist utopia (8/22/2017 7:39:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

so the answer is no---because of the classic phrase: "eventually we'll run out of other peoples' money"


Here's a newsflash, dullwit; almost everything in business is done with other people's money. Your savings, my savings, The "cycle of money" explicating it all.

If they do it right, then it adds to our retirement fund.

If they do it wrong, it comes out of our pocket.

You argue against socialism, until the guys you were stupid enough to vote for impose tax payer covered-socialised financial risk, and 'help from the US Treasury will be available to you upon opening business this AM.;

Own up to it, at least.





ThatDizzyChick -> RE: The Swedish socialist utopia (8/22/2017 9:51:14 PM)

quote:

Another question could be, is the current American system sustainable indefinitely?

No. Every exploitative system eventually reaches the point of no return, when the exploited masses rise up and overthrow the exploiting few. Of course, all that they actually achieve is a brief respite and then a new exploitative class begins the cycle all over again.



ThatDizzyChick -> RE: The Swedish socialist utopia (8/22/2017 9:58:08 PM)

quote:

I believe that the USSR was the inevitable attempt at those societal shifts you discuss.

You are wrong again. the USSR was a terror-based totalitarian state imposed by Lenin in order to secure power for himself and his small group of followers, and it required the destruction of the nascent communist structure that was emerging with the local soviets. lenin wanted complete control, and the only method he accepted for gaining control was through terror. he was, in short an old school tsarist autocrat, the only difference was he wanted to be the autocrat.



ThatDizzyChick -> RE: The Swedish socialist utopia (8/22/2017 9:59:51 PM)

Ah fuck it, you're far too stupid to bother with. Go drool quietly in the corner or something.



Nnanji -> RE: The Swedish socialist utopia (8/22/2017 10:22:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

I believe that the USSR was the inevitable attempt at those societal shifts you discuss.

You are wrong again. the USSR was a terror-based totalitarian state imposed by Lenin in order to secure power for himself and his small group of followers, and it required the destruction of the nascent communist structure that was emerging with the local soviets. lenin wanted complete control, and the only method he accepted for gaining control was through terror. he was, in short an old school tsarist autocrat, the only difference was he wanted to be the autocrat.

As Maduro is doing now in Venezuela. As I said it's the inevitable when you base your system on forcing societal shifts against human nature. I wasn't wrong, you may have your definition, mine works just as well. Had your "nascent communist structures" been established, the same thing would have eventually happened. Lenin may have accelerated it, but eventually someone would have taken advantage of people being forced to live outside of human nature.



bounty44 -> RE: The Swedish socialist utopia (8/23/2017 3:40:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

I am talking about the current economic system/systems in place in the United States and most of the world.



so the answer is no---because of the classic phrase: "eventually we'll run out of other peoples' money"



Less government in THIS environment?
We will have a lot more government, before we have less.


With the current system of inequality, and the number of middle class free-falling, the numbers of those that are poor and disenfranchised rapidly growing?


"inequality" is a condition and fact of nature.

if you believe its okay to take money from some people and give it to others in order to address "inequality" then we are philosophical loggerheads and you will almost always find your solution in "more government."

government retards growth.



Edwird -> RE: The Swedish socialist utopia (8/23/2017 5:09:05 AM)

Uh, no, the fact is that taking money from some people to give to others doesn't just 'promote' inequality, it in fact imposes and implements inequality.

Stanley O'Neal got paid $90.1 million in 2006 for stealing homes from people, trillions of tax payer dollars were expended to 'make whole' Goldman Sachs and the whole band of personal wealth destroyers, but not a penny to those financially destroyed.

What is 'oil depletion allowance' and invasion of or overthrowing of democratically elected governments in Latin America and the Middle East, paid for with tax-paying workers' wealth creation, but taking money from the many to give to a select few?

This is definitely not the 'capitalism' that you delude yourself into thinking as exists. It is in fact -selective socialism- that you and your kind and your regressionista Republican stooges so stupidly and aggressively advocate.





Edwird -> RE: The Swedish socialist utopia (8/23/2017 5:21:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji
Lenin may have accelerated it, but eventually someone would have taken advantage of people being forced to live outside of human nature.


Right.

So, then, you propose that it's 'human nature' to stand out at the street waving a big sign and acting goofy to promote whatever pizza joint or phone service at the storefront of the parking lot?



ThatDizzyChick -> RE: The Swedish socialist utopia (8/23/2017 5:25:26 AM)

Wow, you really don't pay much attention to what is said in the discussion you are pretending to follow, do you chuckles?



BoscoX -> RE: The Swedish socialist utopia (8/23/2017 5:33:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

Ah fuck it, you're far too stupid to bother with. Go drool quietly in the corner or something.


This, from she who *really believes* in communism... [:D]



Edwird -> RE: The Swedish socialist utopia (8/23/2017 6:01:31 AM)

At the end of the day, we're all just glorified spot welders in the assembly line of life, whatever fancy job title might be put to it.



ThatDizzyChick -> RE: The Swedish socialist utopia (8/23/2017 7:01:09 AM)

You don't know how to read either it seems



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