RE: The Swedish socialist utopia

RE: The Swedish socialist utopia (Full Version)

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Nnanji -> RE: The Swedish socialist utopia (8/23/2017 8:03:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick Wow, you really don't pay much attention to what is said in the discussion you are pretending to follow, do you chuckles? Oh dear, have a cookie. Pat pat.

Nnanji -> RE: The Swedish socialist utopia (8/23/2017 8:04:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwird quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji Lenin may have accelerated it, but eventually someone would have taken advantage of people being forced to live outside of human nature. Right. So, then, you propose that it's 'human nature' to stand out at the street waving a big sign and acting goofy to promote whatever pizza joint or phone service at the storefront of the parking lot? Right then, you're off your meds once again. Are those smells and flashing lights distracting you?

Edwird -> RE: The Swedish socialist utopia (8/23/2017 8:12:25 AM)
Anyone who presents facts is "off his meds." That explains a lot. Take another Ambien and leave the adults alone, here.

Nnanji -> RE: The Swedish socialist utopia (8/23/2017 8:16:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwird Anyone who presents facts is "off his meds." That explains a lot. Take another Ambien and leave the adults alone, here. Show me a fact in your previous statement to me please.

Edwird -> RE: The Swedish socialist utopia (8/23/2017 8:30:20 AM)
People being hired to dance like a fool on the sidewalk while waving a big sign for their employer is a fact. This is not unique to one city. But while we're at it, I have nothing to 'show' for dullwits who deny reality in the first place. I just present facts, sorry if you can't handle it.

Nnanji -> RE: The Swedish socialist utopia (8/23/2017 8:34:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwird People being hired to dance like a fool on the sidewalk while waving a big sign for their employer is a fact. This is not unique to one city. But while we're at it, I have nothing to 'show' for dullwits who deny reality in the first place. I just present facts, sorry if you can't handle it. Lol, Lordy, read your own post. Narcissism can only be treated effectively when you take your meds regularly. Now run along.

Edwird -> RE: The Swedish socialist utopia (8/23/2017 9:04:36 AM)
I don't run. I ride a very nice bike all over the place. While you waddle to the refrigerator, and muddle your way through various and sundry incoherent mental meanderings in like fashion.

Nnanji -> RE: The Swedish socialist utopia (8/23/2017 9:19:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwird I don't run. I ride a very nice bike all over the place. While you waddle to the refrigerator, and muddle your way through various and sundry incoherent mental meanderings in like fashion. You do realize that believing you can see me waddle to the refrigerator is a symptom of what we're discussing don't you. I'm just trying to help you when I remind you to take your meds.

Edwird -> RE: The Swedish socialist utopia (8/23/2017 10:07:12 AM)
I don't 'believe' such a thing. I just go by experience with other keyboard-styled self-imagined braveheart warriors. Mental weaklings display themselves, no need for 'extra powers' to see it. Just a decent set of ears can hear such braying as yours from a far distance.

MrRodgers -> RE: The Swedish socialist utopia (8/23/2017 11:53:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick quote: Look to North Korea, the USSR. neither of those is communist, they are both examples of totalitarian fascistic state capitalist societies. Look, almost all of these discussions, it becomes a bit semantic but I have a distinction to draw here. Capitalism is man exploiting man. Communism is...just the opposite. The differences are, Americans were free. Not just politically free even if narrow but...economically free. So the key here is that capitalism and communism share the attribute of the few that benefit at the expense of the many and the American middle class can borrow and earn to cover their debts from the consumption that is their desire and incentive and demand that can be fulfilled. The communists can't pay the debt service because they can't borrow and consume, and with the west borrowing trillion$ with all of the military, the Soviets cried uncle. What enabled all of that ? Freedom yes, yet nothing capitalism guarantees but govt. protection of real competitive, Free Enterprise based on certain restrictions, laws and private property...the biggest difference from the communist. And yes, communism is an economic system not a political system, some distinctions of which, have been made here. It is free enterprise that has saved America after this last meltdown as many people in trouble or seeing greater risk continuing...started a business and can do so quite easily.

ThatDizzyChick -> RE: The Swedish socialist utopia (8/23/2017 4:48:03 PM)
Yeah, that's bullshit.

Marini -> RE: The Swedish socialist utopia (8/23/2017 5:24:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick quote: Another question could be, is the current American system sustainable indefinitely? No. Every exploitative system eventually reaches the point of no return, when the exploited masses rise up and overthrow the exploiting few. Of course, all that they actually achieve is a brief respite and then a new exploitative class begins the cycle all over again. We can agree that the masses have to reach the tipping point. It is just a matter of time. I see some combinations of several political, economic and societal systems that seem desirable. Even a combination of "bridled" capitalism/mixed with socialism. One of the main problems with our current system in the states, is the fact there is almost no "safety" net for many people. For those seriously struggling but still in the middle or lower middle class, assistance for adults that don't have dependents {one of my main pet peeves}, those that work and can't afford to put a roof over their heads, SAFE basic shelter for those that are homeless, affordable housing, and more programs, housing and assistance for lower income seniors, etc. You seem to believe ALL economic systems will eventually create an exploitative class. In that case does it really matter what the system is?

Edwird -> RE: The Swedish socialist utopia (8/23/2017 5:56:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick Yeah, that's bullshit. You keep saying that, but you've yet to spell out for us how it all should work, in your world. We're all ears.

bounty44 -> RE: The Swedish socialist utopia (8/23/2017 7:34:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini One of the main problems with our current system in the states, is the fact there is almost no "safety" net for many people. For those seriously struggling but still in the middle or lower middle class, assistance for adults that don't have dependents {one of my main pet peeves}, those that work and can't afford to put a roof over their heads, SAFE basic shelter for those that are homeless, affordable housing, and more programs, housing and assistance for lower income seniors, etc. setting aside for a moment marini the debate as to who is most responsible for a "safety net"---oneself, friends, family and local communities, or the state & federal governments, im really hard pressed to believe you think we're greatly lacking in that area.

Edwird -> RE: The Swedish socialist utopia (8/23/2017 7:36:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-swedes-give-up-for-free-money-1502752745?mod=djemMER Good thing this happens only in Sweden, never in 'the land of the free.' When the State Takes Kids Away From Parents Failure To Protect; The Taking and Murder of Logan Marr Hundreds more where that came from.

Nnanji -> RE: The Swedish socialist utopia (8/23/2017 7:46:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwird I don't 'believe' such a thing. I just go by experience with other keyboard-styled self-imagined braveheart warriors. Mental weaklings display themselves, no need for 'extra powers' to see it. Just a decent set of ears can hear such braying as yours from a far distance. [sm=biggrin.gif][sm=biggrin.gif][sm=computer_smiley.gif]

Marini -> RE: The Swedish socialist utopia (8/23/2017 8:20:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 quote: ORIGINAL: Marini One of the main problems with our current system in the states, is the fact there is almost no "safety" net for many people. For those seriously struggling but still in the middle or lower middle class, assistance for adults that don't have dependents {one of my main pet peeves}, those that work and can't afford to put a roof over their heads, SAFE basic shelter for those that are homeless, affordable housing, and more programs, housing and assistance for lower income seniors, etc. setting aside for a moment marini the debate as to who is most responsible for a "safety net"---oneself, friends, family and local communities, or the state & federal governments, im really hard pressed to believe you think we're greatly lacking in that area. We are ALL entitled to our points of view. I have paid taxes all of my life, and I have an issue with the government only helping some, when all of us might need assistance in our lives. If I follow your reasoning, there should be NO assistance to anyone. The United States helps people all over the world, including sending money to rich nations, and I have to see veterans begging on the streets, people working full time and can't afford anywhere to live, people working hard every day and running out of food. I could go on and on. Whatever bounty, whatever

Lucylastic -> RE: The Swedish socialist utopia (8/23/2017 8:25:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 quote: ORIGINAL: Marini One of the main problems with our current system in the states, is the fact there is almost no "safety" net for many people. For those seriously struggling but still in the middle or lower middle class, assistance for adults that don't have dependents {one of my main pet peeves}, those that work and can't afford to put a roof over their heads, SAFE basic shelter for those that are homeless, affordable housing, and more programs, housing and assistance for lower income seniors, etc. setting aside for a moment marini the debate as to who is most responsible for a "safety net"---oneself, friends, family and local communities, or the state & federal governments, im really hard pressed to believe you think we're greatly lacking in that area. We are ALL entitled to our points of view. I have paid taxes all of my life, and I have an issue with the government only helping some, when all of us might need assistance in our lives. If I follow your reasoning, there should be NO assistance to anyone. The United States helps people all over the world, including sending money to rich nations, and I have to see veterans begging on the streets, people working full time and can't afford anywhere to live, people working hard every day and running out of food. I could go on and on. Whatever bounty, whatever you go Marini:) [;)]

Marini -> RE: The Swedish socialist utopia (8/23/2017 8:26:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic quote: ORIGINAL: Marini quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 quote: ORIGINAL: Marini One of the main problems with our current system in the states, is the fact there is almost no "safety" net for many people. For those seriously struggling but still in the middle or lower middle class, assistance for adults that don't have dependents {one of my main pet peeves}, those that work and can't afford to put a roof over their heads, SAFE basic shelter for those that are homeless, affordable housing, and more programs, housing and assistance for lower income seniors, etc. setting aside for a moment marini the debate as to who is most responsible for a "safety net"---oneself, friends, family and local communities, or the state & federal governments, im really hard pressed to believe you think we're greatly lacking in that area. We are ALL entitled to our points of view. I have paid taxes all of my life, and I have an issue with the government only helping some, when all of us might need assistance in our lives. If I follow your reasoning, there should be NO assistance to anyone. The United States helps people all over the world, including sending money to rich nations, and I have to see veterans begging on the streets, people working full time and can't afford anywhere to live, people working hard every day and running out of food. I could go on and on. Whatever bounty, whatever you go Marini:) [;)] you too Lucy! At least Bounty tends to be polite. We RARELY agree, but we agree to disagree.

Edwird -> RE: The Swedish socialist utopia (8/23/2017 9:07:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini One of the main problems with our current system in the states, is the fact there is almost no "safety" net for many people. The thing to do is to is to have things such that there is less need for a safety net to begin with. We can't avoid that entirely, but we certainly can reduce the occurrence of such need with better policies. Have better tech and trades training in HS, tuition-free community college (like Obama tried to do) to get an associates degree or a certificate, put the federal minimum wage to $10/hr. right now, 12-13 in two years, $15/hr in five years, etc. Sorry Bernie, but it would wreck things if we did that in one fell swoop. But the idea is right, if implemented properly. And eventually, low cost higher education. The truth of the matter is that people on the lowest end of the wage scale would spend 100% of their 'newfound wealth' to purpose of a better apartment, or moving from apartment to condo, buying better groceries, better furniture, better clothes, or moving up from the 20 yr. old oil burner to a brand new 3 yr. old Chevy or Honda, giving those who sold the car cash in hand to spend on this year's model, etc. Believe it or not, this pumps the economy more than does 5-10 more guys moving up from a Mustang jet to a Gulfstream V. Want to reduce unemployment, and unemployment claims? Pay workers as to their worth in terms of measurable productivity per worker. The current min. wage ($7.25 federal, higher in some states) is nothing but 'productivity theft' from workers, the actual producers of wealth, for others. It's fucking embarrassing to even give out the actual number, this being the most wealthy country in the world.

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