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Marini -> RE: The Swedish socialist utopia (8/22/2017 6:36:06 PM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick
quote:
So what is the solution?
Honestly? There isn't one. Communism offers the best possible model, but it runs counter to those aforementioned human traits, and so will always fail unless there is some influence that will override those traits. So far, that has only been found in extreme religiosity, but even that is not a sure counter, as many communal religious bodies/communities have fallen prey to the greed of leaders or members, etc.
Of course, even when it does manage to overcome greed, etc., it opens the believers up to manipulation and exploitation, so the strength can also be a weakness.
Rather than there being a single solution, there are some basic principles that alleviate the deliterious effects of the greed, etc., however, many of them are more or less unworkable given the curent world population and degree of urbanization.
These principles are
1. The broader the interest in an enterprise, the less subject it is to being corrupted.
2. The more closely an enterprise is connected and interdependent with it's local community, the less likely it is to be corrupted. This principle, however, often runs counter to the first.
3. The more the focus of an enterprise is on profit for profit's sake, the more susceptible it is to corruption.
4. The more diffuse the authority in an enterprise is, the less susceptible it is to corruption.
As to what is required of us (meaning people in general)
A. A fundamental shift in societal mores is required, away from individualism and the glorification of material wealth towards a greater sense of community and a broader societal acceptance of the concept of "having enough".
B. A societal shift away from the worship of excess and consumption as a measure of personal worth, basically to value people for who and what they are rather than how much they have.
C. The abandonment of the concept of a "productive member of society", and the idea of a hierarchy of worth based on what one does for a living. Garbage men and janitors are looked down on, yet our entire society would implode without them. We could not get by without them, or truck drivers, longshoremen, farm workers, grocery store cashiers, etc., yet those jobs are generally seen as being the realm of failures, of people who can't do any better (just look at how many people try to attack me for my decision to remain a barmaid rather than get some corporate job).
As you can see, the "solution" involves such a deep and fundamental change in the basic assumptions of our whole societal model as to be effectively impossible.
Thank you for writing such a thoughtful post.
I agree societal shift/or uprisings/revolution, etc. would be necessary.
I read something, I am not sure where, that I found "deep".
The premise was, that so many of those who are suffering the most, and would benefit the most---still "believe" the American dream.
We worship sports figures, celebrities, those with money, because many believe no matter what is in front of their face, that a certain status is achievable for most if not all.
The current me generation/facebook/social media/celebrity worship, etc. does not have the collective mindset to even rise up against the system that is oppressive and often holding them back.
I have said for years on here, that we will not have great societal change in America, until things get progressively worse for even greater numbers of people.
At that time, we might have a chance of introducing societal changes.
Many of the poor want to get out of poverty, the homeless want a home, the unemployed or underemployed want jobs, we want better schools, we want a better health care system, we want safer housing, we want less crime, we want better opportunities, we want and we want.
We focus on what we want in this country, rather than focusing on the economic system, BEHIND everything.
The whole system needs to be addressed.
The reason I have lost respect for most of those in the Democratic Party, is they are in bed with the soulless greedy corporate bastards, that I despise.
Have you heard about corporate liberals?
When society is willing to settle for crumbs kicked at them to placate them, there can be no significant changes.
When people are content, with the status quo, the status quo remains.
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