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Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/28/2006 5:44:04 AM   
sapphirepleasure


Posts: 411
Joined: 4/27/2006
From: Land of Enchantment
Status: offline 		As a slave who is not a natural pain slut but who adores my Master and wants to please him in every way, I am struggling to understand how he can love me so deeply and yet need to hurt me.  Every other aspect of our relationship is so perfect and he says that I am the most submissive girl he's ever known and I so long to please him, but last night when he caned me (actually a relatively mild caning that left me only barely marked), I fell into a sub drop and found myself sobbing and wondering why I have to earn his love by doing something that hurts so badly.

It really shook him to see me so traumatized and he held me and assured me of his love and told me that it wasn't true, that I didn't have to earn his love.  I need to understand how a sadist feels so that I can accept my Master's need to hurt me in this way, and I need to find a headspace in which I can accept this pain that takes me to places that are seemingly intolerable.

I would appreciate any help that you can give. 
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RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/28/2006 5:51:41 AM   
SexyRed


Posts: 529
Joined: 8/19/2004
Status: offline 		A delicate question, for sure, given the nature of your relationship. I will say this, having experienced a situation where I loved the Dom, but over the years he became so sadistic that it pushed me away from him. I am not a painslut and never will be. He thought that because I liked some pain, he could just push and push. But sometimes, it pushes so much that you are in too much pain to feel good about it.

It is futile to try and understand someone else's motivation if, in the end, you cannot tolerate something. In the end, you might resent him for putting you through pain that is not tolerable.

You can have complete insight into a person and it still may be too much for you to handle, if he loves you he will understand. My ex did not want to understand, so that is why he is an EX.

_____________________________

A trucker will slow down for a blonde, stop for a brunette, but back up 500 yards for a redhead!


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RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/28/2006 5:58:22 AM   
sapphirepleasure


Posts: 411
Joined: 4/27/2006
From: Land of Enchantment
Status: offline 		I did read the whole sadism thread from a week or two ago and learned a lot from that so maybe I am asking the wrong question.  Maybe I need to understand myself more and how to tolerate it from someone I love.  Put the focus on me, because obviously my issue is that I am having a hard time accepting it and it's triggering issues for me when it gets to a certain level.

I have learned to tolerate more when it's mixed with pleasure and praise, such as spankings, paddling, floggings and even some caning.  It's just when it gets to a certain level I just feel so vulnerable and helpless and get very emotional, so much so that it even really upset my Master and caused him to question his own wisdom in how he handled me when honestly he was wonderful.

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RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/28/2006 5:59:19 AM   
swtnsparkling


Posts: 1738
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		If you view this as he  Needs to hurt you and he is a sadist why are you with him? 
did you know what sadist means before you met?

_____________________________

Never make anyone a priority who treats you as an option 2003

Walk in Peace
A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better than a "Yes" uttered merely to please



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RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/28/2006 6:00:31 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Hopefully, you'll get to hear from some actual Sadists - and they will describe their feelings re: What, exactly it does for them.

- Susan 

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/28/2006 6:05:00 AM   
sapphirepleasure


Posts: 411
Joined: 4/27/2006
From: Land of Enchantment
Status: offline 		Yes, I knew that he was somewhat sadistic, but I also knew that we were compatible on every other level, and that I was willing to learn to please him in this way and that he was willing to be patient with me and shape me, "even if it takes years" to guide me into where he would like me to be in this area.  He's not into mutilation or anything severe, but I am very new to the lifestyle and just need to be acclimated and that's why I'm asking for help in this forum.

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RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/28/2006 6:07:17 AM   
sapphirepleasure


Posts: 411
Joined: 4/27/2006
From: Land of Enchantment
Status: offline 		Yes, Susan, I think that would be helpful too, and I did start to get an inkling from that in reading KoM and others' posts on the sadism thread.  I am also hoping that perhaps there are those who struggled with accepting pain who got through their resistance who can share how they did so.  That would also be helpful I think.

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RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/28/2006 6:10:42 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Well - hopefully, Knight of Mists, EvilGeoff, amayos, Noah, Archer (and-or some others with a pencant for Sadism) will be along to post a reply to your thread. 

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/28/2006 6:18:23 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/28/2006 6:23:23 AM   
shivvy


Posts: 746
Joined: 3/25/2006
From: Ireland, living in Kent, England.
Status: offline 		i don't know if my current Master P is a "Sadist" as such, but coz He doesn't "enjoy" hurting me like my first Master did.. but P says that sometimes, after a bad, stressful day, sometimes He just likes working things out of His system, and hurting me (not necessarilly by beating me, but sometimes) helps Him to calm down and relax.
 
i'm not really a masochist. i "enjoy" pain when it's part of sex, but otherwise, it just hurts. but i accept pain, coz like you, it makes my Master happy. but i often find myself questioning myself, and having doubts about the lifestyle i've chosen. i always cry, sometimes before He's even started. i don't know why.. anticipation perhaps? but that just encourages Him, coz He likes it when i cry... but i spose that goes back to wot sexyred said, about understanding other people motivations, coz if i'm 100% honest, i don't even understand my own motivations. i just know wot i am and know wot i need.
 
when Master hurts me, and goes beyond wot i feel i can take, i tend to concerntrate on relaxing and breathing. i try not to tense up as i hear woteva it is He is beating me with, whoosh through the air.. i try to think about either happy things, or concertrate on chores i have to do, or perhaps how i could do stuff differently or betta. i just try to block woteva is happening out of my mind.
 
i know it's hard, removing yourself from wotz being done to your body, but i luv Him. and i know in a few days time, i will thank Him for using me like this, to make Him feel betta, coz i know in my heart that He come to me, and not anybody else.. only i can satisfy Him the way He needs. and for THAT, i am grateful.
 
i hope you manage to find your answers hun, and everything falls into place for you.
 
luv,
 
shiv
xx

ps. edited coz i canny spell for toffee

< Message edited by shivvy -- 7/28/2006 6:28:08 AM >

_____________________________


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(¸.•´ (¸.•´ .•´ ¸¸.•¨¯`•.εΐз¸¸.·*´¯`v´¯`*·.¸¸ـ εΐз ~*luv shivvy*~ ـ εΐз

xxx
Owned and collared by SavageFaerie and Master P

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RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/28/2006 7:28:20 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		Sapphirepleasure.   I hope these words can provide you with some insight.  But, consider there are from my perspective and could not be even remotely applicable to your Master.  I suggest that any advice or thoughts you gain from this thread is communicated to your Master for further discussion and consideration. 

You indicate a deep desire to accept his sadistic acts upon you by understanding why he would have such a need.  You also state in a secondary post that maybe you should consider the situation from your own point of view instead.  I believe that you will gain more success if you consider it from both perspectives.

A Question for you.  Do you consider it a paradox that some one would love you would also want to hurt you?  The obvious answer is yes.  So why do you?  Individuals and society at large have a negative view of pain.  Pain actually is rather useful to our lives.  Pain teaches us that the stove is hot and we shouldn’t touch it.  Pain is often used on young ones as means to change behavior.  Generally, we as a society equate pain as an aspect of negative reinforcement.  Pain causes us to want to reject or avoid what causes it.  This largely is very useful to our basic survival.  But, often we equate it as more than that.  We not only equate pain as something to avoid or reject, but we also project negative views on the causers of pain.   We not only seek to avoid pain, but we have negative feelings of what causes the pain.  We also assume that the causers of pain with have a similar view.  In that, someone that hurts you doesn’t like you.  We are raised with this mindset from a early age.  It is also hardwired into your survival instincts.  Understand that what you are trying to accept is contrary to what everyone has learned through the years as well as what has developed in our human existence.  Understand your lack of acceptance is rooted in this very belief!

I suggest that you consider the possibility that one can Love and be a causer of Pain and even gain pleasure from it.  Consider the parent who has punished the little one.  As a young one, I can remember questioning if I was loved after such occurrences.  In fact, I do remember knowing and still know that my parents love me very much.  Here is  proof that the giver of pain can love you.  It’s at the very basic level… but it is proof none the less.  The question is motivation.  A parent does such to teach and to encourage a change of behavior.   What allows the little one to accept that the Parent loves them?  And, what is the motivation of the Sadist?

The loving and moral Sadist is specifically motivated by their own desire to please themselves.  The causing of pain for some unknown reason generates personal pleasure for the Sadist.  But, understand that there is a difference of Causing Pain and Causing Harm.  Understand that it is this difference that separates the loving and moral Sadist from the Hateful and Immoral Sadist.  Learn to separate the motivations of the two.  Learn to appreciate that the loving and moral Sadist cares for your condition and that your free from harm.  I suggest you consider all the demonstrated behaviors that express your Masters Love and attention from your Well-being!  But, don’t compare this to a person who doesn’t cause pain.  But, compare such actions to the individual that is uncaring and selfish… compare him to that immoral sadist!  In making that comparison, you will see the light and love your Master has for you.  I have met very few intense moral Sadists.  But, I would suggest that such individuals have an intensely deep capacity to love.  It is this capacity that separates us from the beasts of humanity.  When I play with my girls and my play partners, my actions besides giving me intense pleasure in the causing of pain, is also a deep expression of my capacity to love.  I don’t understand those self-claimed Sadist that they are playing with the beast.  In many ways, I consider such statements as ego and image building that is rather shallow and of no significances.  I do not play with the Beast.  I do not chain such an animal in myself or let it out a little to do what I do.  I do not equate my acts as being a bad boy or evil or other such dramatics. My sadist acts are very much an expression of Love.  In the story of Beauty and the Beast, I often look at that story and see a view that most do not see.  Selfish Love of oneself can turn to disregard to others and show an immoral beast.  But, when Love is expressed outwardly towards others the beast is guided in a completely different direction.   We all have this beast of nature within us, but it is our character strengths and virtues that will guide this beast.  We are the beast… it is not separate entity within us.


Again, the above is my view and perspective of my inner Sadist motivations.  It may or may not be shared by your Master.  I would suggest that you share the thoughts you gain from this thread and others with your Master.  I would also suggest that it is very important to have some intense conversations with  your Master.  If you fail to learn to accept this aspect of your Master... you will end up resenting him for this aspect and in time it will destroy your relationship.

< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 7/28/2006 7:33:27 AM >

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/28/2006 7:37:43 AM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline
quote:

Well - hopefully, Knight of Mists, EvilGeoff, amayos, Noah, Archer (and-or some others with a pencant for Sadism) will be along to post a reply to your thread. 

- Susan


Sorry Susan, you got me

I am a sadist. That being said, I do not pull the wings off flies, nor do I torture small animals, and I am usually the first to rush to comfort an unmentionable who has been hurt.

I derive pleasure from inflicting pain in an erotic context....slapping the face of a kneeling naked submissive (gender is irrelevant) excites me, however doing so in nearly any other context does not.

I am likely very different than many sadists in that to me it is much like a journey I am taking the recipient on, leading him or her slowly to the realisation that there is indeed pleasure to be had from what is normally an unpleasant sensation. I prefer the person I am hurting to enjoy it, that excites me, if he or she gets pleasure from the pain, and I can take that person just as far as they can stand, and then just a little further, push them a little deeper, and give them a release unlike any other they can get otherwise...that is the goal to me, that id where my sadism is centered.

As for what exactly it is about hurting that I like, I have never tried to analyse it, it just is. I do not always get aroused from it (it is often rather hard work, and takes 100% of my concentration), but I always enjoy it. It isn't so much a thrill, as a deep satisfaction, a sense of fulfillment.

If your master is a sadist, and you are not finding pleasure in his activities, then perhaps he needs to back up some and start over, sexualising the experience for you, go back to light spankings while using a vibrator, or twisting your nipples as you orgasm. However, as I said before, I suspect I am not like many other sadists, it may well be that for your master it is the fact that you do not enjoy the pain that pleases him (you know the old line about the sadist refusing to beat the masochist), perhaps it is your willingness to accept the pain while deriving no pleasure from it that pleases him. Sadism comes in as many guises as it has practitioners, this is a question you and your master must explore together in order to understand where his sadism is coming from.

I hope this makes some sense and is of some use.

_____________________________

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Ha Ha...Charade you are!

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RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/28/2006 7:56:22 AM   
mstrjx


Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		teresa,

I read KoM's and Arpig's posts with great interest.  I think what both of them said as quite accurate.  There's something that I have just recalled that I hadn't remembered in a few years that might be valuable to you.

I am a pain player, but I don't necessarily identify as a sadist.  I like to play, and I do so at or slightly ahead of the person that I'm with.  So, I can play quite light, or quite heavy.  I do it more in a sensual sense, as part of the pleasure/pain paradigm.

What I had forgotten was the simple fact that when the body encounters pain, adrenaline and endorphins are released.  Conversely, when a high level of pleasure is encountered, the body will release increased levels of adrenaline and endorphins.  Therefore, the line between pleasure and pain is how the brain processes the information.  That is why when liberal, increasing doses of BOTH are utilized, the lines become blurred and the brain gets fooled.  The intensity can become overwhelming, usually in a good way.  For some, this is how subspace occurs.

Now, how to get there.  Not all doms know the formula, and even for those who do (myself included), they sometimes cannot reproduce it every time.  There's a lot of factors - your headspace, his headspace, distractions, etc.

I would advise be patient.  Yes, talk through these issues with him.  Show him these replies.  There's bound to be nuggets in each and every one.  Find what works for you and him together.  You're just starting.  It doesn't have to be a black-or-white thing right now.

Hope this helps.

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

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RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/28/2006 8:33:38 AM   
sapphirepleasure


Posts: 411
Joined: 4/27/2006
From: Land of Enchantment
Status: offline 		Thank you, shivvy.  That really helps.  I do like knowing that I am the only one who can satisfy my Master in this way and I want to learn to relax into it.  Since we are still new in the relationship (he's only beaten me twice), I am still learning to relax into it.  I would love to learn to click into headspace eventually and maybe I will read some of those threads.  I don't really want to start thinking about other things because I want to be present in the moment, but I think I have been tensing up sometimes.  I had some other thoughts when I read KoM's and Arpig and Master Jeff's posts but I will save my comments for them! 

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RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/28/2006 8:36:28 AM   
MistressMelissa


Posts: 226
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline



Being raised to be kind to others and treat others with kindness and respect, there is an internal battle that I am faced with. While it delights me to no end to get into someones head and manipulate and twist their lusts and desires in ways that they never would have expected; I am also keenly aware of the responsibility I assume in doing so. It is the internal battle of maintaining my morality and what I have been raised to believe is correct with my own personal desire to satisfy my own desire for pleasure. Some call this their beast and it is their internal conflict of finding their own balance between what they feel and what society expects of them. While we are taught that to spare the rod, spoils the child, we are also taught, this hurts me more than it hurts you. So we are taught to motivate our child via pain and yet this is a despicable act and we really are only doing this as a last resort.  While it strokes me to watch someone writhe on the floor in pleasure that is nearly painful, on the other hand I bear a great responsibility for this persons safety. Do I know enough about the mental and physical conditions that I am not inadvertently putting them at risk due to some past episode or an overlooked mental/medical condition. I once stated the gift of a sadist was to give you what you had asked for, but in ways that would unsettle and rattle your cage. To give you what you had wanted and yet at the same time, not in the way in which you had wanted it. By turning what is expected, into the unexpected, I unbalance your world and thus as you squirm to reestablish your sense of balance. I derive pleasure from your confusion and discomfort. Call it a mental game of pulling the chair out from under you. But its a way for me to exert control over you and by controlling you I can regain some control over my own world. For me it's all about control and maintaining control at all times. No, I don't think that everyone should bow to me, but by maintaining control of myself and those close to me I maintain balance within my own life. So, when he states that being a sadist allows him to relax, he is actually taking control of his own life again by pulling your strings. By pulling your strings he assures himself that he is once again in control of his own life. He's running a test and when you respond as he expects, test complete, balance is restored on with life. When you don't respond as he wishes, you prove to him his world is unbalanced and now he will have to fix it. As for physical pain, there are ways around that. A longer warm up will put you into subspace and once there your ability to absorb pain should be much easier. But since I like to hear the "sound effects" and the little cuss words that slip out, I will normally prevent subspace. Must be that whole sadist thing. Hope this helps.

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RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/28/2006 8:56:44 AM   
sapphirepleasure


Posts: 411
Joined: 4/27/2006
From: Land of Enchantment
Status: offline 		Dear KoM,

I am so touched by your reply and your care in writing it to me.  I know that it is very much along the lines of what my Master feels because both of us admire you very much and have discussed your thoughts about other issues.  I know we will discuss this thread together when he gets home and reads it tonight and I asked his permission to post this before I did. 

Some thoughts as I read your post.  First of all, regarding being hurt by someone you love and learning to accept it.  I think that perhaps one of the reasons I am struggling so with this idea (and you are right, my Master is definitely a loving sadist like you are, there is no doubt in my mind about that) is that I was beaten abusively by a manic-depressive father throughout my entire childhood and it wasn't out of love but out of a lack of control.  I was the scapegoat and 'whipping boy' for our family.  He didn't beat my mother or the other kids to speak of but me, his namesake and oldest child.  I think for this reason I resisted coming into the lifestyle for so long and yet I craved being spanked as an adult, in order to reclaim, to relive (on my terms, perhaps? with someone who I trust, who loves me?) and to be whole.  So pain is triggering emotion in me and it is the love/pain dichotomy that I am struggling with big time.  You nailed it.  And I must get past it in order to accept my Master's love which is deep and real.  And obviously it's no accident that I was drawn to this lifestyle and chose this man as my life partner.  I don't want to keep avoiding the hard stuff.  I want to go all the way through and be able to take it all.

Even my deep need to submit was corrupted by my childhood abuse.  My father would say, "If you don't respect me, I'll beat it into you," and, "You'll never make a good wife because you're not submissive enough," when my Master now tells me that I'm the most submissive girl he's ever known.  So now I am safe to fully surrender and to embrace the pain and be free in my submission, in slavery and I can't afford to get hung up in resentment, as you so aptly point out.  My Master is not the enemy or evil for being a loving sadist to me and I desperately need to yield myself fully to his pain in order to find my way to my true self.

To Arpig, I would say that I agree that it is a journey, and I do wish to find the pleasure in it.  To Mstrjx, my mentor & trainer who began to help me find that mixture of pleasure and pain, you know I am not the most patient of girls (an understatement!) but I am dedicated and committed and willing to be guided.

Thank you so much to all the wise Masters, slaves and submissives who have shared and will share their experience and journeys with me and my Master as I better learn how to surrender and walk through the pain into joy.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
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RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/28/2006 9:13:17 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		sapphire,
Wanting to please doesn't bring with it the ability to please. There are somethings that can't be learned. Transference of pain into please varies within those on the submissive side of the flogger. If your level doesn't match your Master's, no amount of training will change that. It may be a decision where you and he discuss if this issue overwhelms the emotional connection. Will it cause the emotional connection to wilt? Will resentment develop for you or him?

The sadistic/masochist meshing of desire between two people is unique to each couple. Going "deeper", as I refer to it, requires a fundamental masochistic or sadistic "wiring" where physical pleasure is derived from the giving or receiving of pain. I don't agree with those that say that this ability can be trained. It can be exploited, or enhanced if it's a natural part of a person, but without it being there to begin with; short of brainwashing, it's not going to be created out of nothing.

Many seem to recommend tolerating the sensation, biting your lip and "doing it for Master". The "tolerant" mentality never worked for me. Don't misunderstand, everything a slave does should be "doing it for Master", but MY desires were never satisfied by a partner who engaged in a activity just to satisfy my "sadistic" urges. I can tell the difference between accepting pain, just to get it over with; and accepting pain because it's generating pleasure, needing more to enhance the experience for both. Eroticism is essential to my pain sessions. It's very difficult to "go deeper" and more sexual when your ultimate desire is to get it over. The pain should be generating feelings of catharses and the desire should be to experience more. 

I'm not suggesting you and your Master should split. It may take adding another, more compatible with his sadistic needs.

I just want to say, that what you want to feel, can't be forced.

(in reply to MistressMelissa)
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RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/28/2006 9:20:17 AM   
sapphirepleasure


Posts: 411
Joined: 4/27/2006
From: Land of Enchantment
Status: offline 		Hi Mistress Melissa,

I think my Master is like you in that he takes his responsibility for keeping me safe very seriously, even as he enjoys taking that control and rocking my world.  Is there such a thing as Master drop?  When I broke into childlike sobs last night saying that I felt I had to earn his love by doing things I didn't want to do, even though he assured me that was false, I think he was afraid that maybe he'd pushed me too far.  After I'd pulled myself together, I had to reassure him that no, he'd been wonderful and the feelings he'd brought up were things I needed to process. 

We're still learning each other and both of us are incredibly loving, intuitive souls so thankfully we are able to sort through the rough stuff that comes up.

Thanks again for your perspective.

(in reply to MistressMelissa)
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RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/28/2006 9:55:13 AM   
Fawne


Posts: 462
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sapphirepleasure
We're still learning each other and both of us are incredibly loving, intuitive souls so thankfully we are able to sort through the rough stuff that comes up.


Respectfully and with best wishes for you both:

Please: Be grateful for this.  Patience, learning as individuals, and trust are the only way. 


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RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/28/2006 10:12:43 AM   
sapphirepleasure


Posts: 411
Joined: 4/27/2006
From: Land of Enchantment
Status: offline 		Merc & beth,

I do understand what you are saying but instead of just deciding that we are incompatible, I want to do all that I can to remove any obstacles that may be getting in the way, such as false perceptions about pain or sadism and learn to have the proper mindset going into it, and to try as many techniques as possible to build up my tolerance gradually.  I'm so new at this I've never even experienced subspace.  He is willing to be patient with me and I am willing to learn and grow, not just endure something I am hating.  That's why I am taking a proactive approach early on.

As far as bringing in another party, that is a hard limit for him.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/28/2006 10:15:58 AM   
sapphirepleasure


Posts: 411
Joined: 4/27/2006
From: Land of Enchantment
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fawne

Respectfully and with best wishes for you both:

Please: Be grateful for this.  Patience, learning as individuals, and trust are the only way. 




Fawne,

Thanks so much for your kind words of wisdom and encouragement.  I will take them to heart.

(in reply to Fawne)
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